10 improvments to B&M

[etalian]

For starts I downloaded and played the game after it was mentioned in the PC gamer forum and it's a very fun game. Here's 5 improvements to the game after getting to level 20 with the full version.

1. The game has terrible performance when there are large number of
soldiers on the screen or when a group of soldiers are fighting in water even on modern 3D cards like the 6600 GT and 9800 Pro. Optimize the graphics code so the frame rate stays >30 FPS even in large battles and peforms well on on modern hardware.

2. Improve the command AI for soldiers under your control. In the current system the AI responds to commands very slowly and battles tend to be more like mob fights than battles. You should be able to put your missile units on the high ground and have some control over the battle. Use a RTS style system or someone other way to allow the player to control his army during the battle (also add in a pause option as well).

3. Make the two factions more unique through adding in unique faction equipment (weapons,armor,equipment etc...) and maybe custom skills/faction bonuses/player titles as well as the player advances through the ranks (after joining a certain faction)

4. Add more content in future versions such as more factions and maybe addditonal factionless bad guys like the dangerous dark hunter.

5. Allow multiple saved games per character instead of just one

6. Make it easier to talk to "behind the counter" tavern owners. In the current system it's a pain to line your character up properly.

7. Increase the vareity of missions and also make sure the missions can be completed. For example chasing the noble party with a speed of 7.9 across the map with a party with a speed of 6.5 is not fun. Add in patrol missions or missions were you support the invasion of the other faction's territory.

8. Rebalance infantry and calvary. Currently infantry units are nowhere good as calvary units since they don't have the trample ability and also move too slow. This means they join the battle longer after the calvary units have been engaged. Missile units are also pretty worthless since they tend to put away their ranged weapons and get easily killed in melee battles since they don't have shield.

9. Add into different upgrade paths so the different factions are unique instead of having the same units. For example on faction might have better infantry while the other might have better calvary. One faction might have access to horse archers while the other depends mainly on shock calvary.

10. Add in more world events (similar to the dark hunter showing up) to keep the game interesting. Add in things like massive invasions by the nomads or sea raiders to keep things interesting. Have the player work with both factions to end the invasions such as killing the invasion's leaders (similar to boss battles).

Overall I enjoyed playing mount&blade and looking foward to playing future versions. Feel free to add into your own suggestions to this thread.

 

[Istadan]

Most suggestions I would make are for added content, and have already been made by others:
A nice heraldric system for crests, etc;
bodies editable like the faces (I can see how that one would present some problems);
a lot more world events, as you said;
a heck of a lot more contests like the arena in Zendar. It would rock to have tourneys and archery contests.
Some sort of hand-to-hand attack, a punch or a tackle.
The ability to, at least temporarily, take equipment from the dead.

Still, one thing I haven't seen people talk about as much is the sound. I'm not talking voice acting necessarily, though good voice acting can lend a lot to a game, but rather a deeper, richer amount of sound in battle.
The music's lovely. However, the rest of the sound's not got much going for it. The occasional clang, some hissing sounds, a wooden whack, some thumps... it's basically not loud enough and doesn't have enough variety. Why don't people scream when you slash their face open? Why doesn't armor jingle? Where is the thunder of hooves, the rattle of wood, the crash when a horse goes down and its rider, plate armor and all, plummets six feet to the ground?
For an example, Imperial Glory: It has very little going for its battles, gameply-wise or graphically, and certainly don't measure up to RTW. And yet, they are still quite intensely cool, because of the truly incredible and immersive sounds.
Oh. And s'more gore and so on would be nice.

 

[JohnathanStrange]

Greetings.

I like to comment on your suggestions.

1. I've not noticed any performance problems and I have a 9800 Pro video card myself and I'm using all the options including maximum battle size. Framerates are always about 30+ in combat . Which is not to dispute that you're experiencing a slowdown, just to wonder how prevalent this problem is. Anyone?

2. Agree, additional separate commands for different unit types and A.I. tweaking would be good. However, small battles like are not orderly formation fights; there short, nasty brutal melees and too much control like pausing (which I love in RTS games) seems a tad out-of-character.

3. Agree, and it has been suggested often in various threads.

4. Agree.

5. Strongly Agree. I like to experiment and extra saves allow that.

6. Heh. I agree. I've mentioned that in order to get the tavernkeeper's attention in Veluca I sometimes find it easier to stand on the counter or behind the bar - although that's what I do in real life so I can live with it.

7. Agree. A common request btw. The speed problem, OTOH, is amusing but not insoluble and I rationalize sometimes the other guy's just faster than you. I simply switch to all mounted troops and caught him.

8. I'm not so sure here. They are what they are, in a sense. Cavalry are faster; they're cavalry! Are your horsemen leaving your infantry behind? Then hold position and let the enemy come to you. Rather go to the enemy in one group? Command follow me. Or don't mix infantry and cavalry - and you can avoid this when you're a higher level hero with a good training ability. However, I agree that the enemy's cavalry leaves his infantry behind and are quickly eliminated - that's an unfair advantage for us.

Be careful about balancing infantry/cavalry. We wouldn't want to balance other natural differences like, for example, heavy hammers and scimitars to make the both the same speed or similar damage. And missile units are virtually useless? Well, I won't touch that one but I think there will be a few dissenters with that one.

It's more fun to accept the differences, rise to the challenge and use those differences. It forces us to deal with the slowness of infantry and the difficulty in coordinating mixed troops.

9. Cool, variety is good.

10. Cool. Similar to other suggestions already, but cool nonetheless.

Probably the only thing I have serious concerns about are the cavalry/infantry/missile balance suggestion though you didn't actually suggest HOW they should be balanced and as I've noted that's a tricky question.

Interesting stuff.

 

[DJ Dethnutz]

1. I've not noticed any performance problems and I have a 9800 Pro video card myself and I'm using all the options including maximum battle size. Framerates are always about 30+ in combat . Which is not to dispute that you're experiencing a slowdown, just to wonder how prevalent this problem is. Anyone?

I get less than 30 FPS at times if I'm viewing 30 people on horseback, with my x800 XL that runs halflife2 at maximum graphics settings. Maybe if just the horse graphic code was optimized it would give a great boost to gameplay.

Not that I mind having my fps cut to 25 for those first few seconds of battle, but I'd like to play 30v30 someday, or even have battles that don't happen in sections but just all at once through an initial huge battle and constant reinforcements.

 

[JohnathanStrange]

Still, one thing I haven't seen people talk about as much is the sound. I'm not talking voice acting necessarily, though good voice acting can lend a lot to a game, but rather a deeper, richer amount of sound in battle.
The music's lovely. However, the rest of the sound's not got much going for it. The occasional clang, some hissing sounds, a wooden whack, some thumps... it's basically not loud enough and doesn't have enough variety. Why don't people scream when you slash their face open? Why doesn't armor jingle? Where is the thunder of hooves, the rattle of wood, the crash when a horse goes down and its rider, plate armor and all, plummets six feet to the ground?

You are so right, if I do say so myself. I've thought at times that the battle was too quiet and that given how dramatic and entertaining battle is now it would take only some additional tweaks to send it from near-great status to great or even epic level.

Your ideas sound on the money: the jingle of the reins, the occasional cough of the men, the heavy clank of a armored knight crashing dead to the ground, heavy breathing of our tired hero, shouted threats and encouragements among others.

There's a thread recommending some additional speech for combat somewhere; I know because I made some inane comment there too.

 

[Cleitan]

1. Yeah, I already posted my specs and I get trouble with many horsies. Makes it tough to lance and very hard to arch with my bow.

2. Perhaps for this you can format your untits in some top down mode before the fight begins, and I want to be able to tell my archers to STAY and my others to follow seperately.

3. Yeah.... like capes.

4. Zombies, with claymores and capes!

5. I dont care about this. It was like this before the recent patch I think though.

6. Make the talk range longer thats all.

7. Ambush ability would be great for this.

8. My archers never die..... I beat like 70 swadians with my 37 archers.... they try to use ranged when possible with the HOLD POSITION order, with the rets of the orders they use melee.

9. Swadians have crossbows and Vaegitrs have archers cutrrently. More differences would be appreciated.

 

[Tarrak]

I will also take the time to comment your points.

1. The game has terrible performance when there are large number of
soldiers on the screen or when a group of soldiers are fighting in water even on modern 3D cards like the 6600 GT and 9800 Pro. Optimize the graphics code so the frame rate stays >30 FPS even in large battles and peforms well on on modern hardware.

Haven't experienced anything like this, at worst I have experienced FPS around 60, but even fighting massive Khergit forces have not affected my system below that. I can understand your problem though, and it is likely that the system is not perfect yet. Hopefully future versions will soften this.

2. Improve the command AI for soldiers under your control. In the current system the AI responds to commands very slowly and battles tend to be more like mob fights than battles. You should be able to put your missile units on the high ground and have some control over the battle. Use a RTS style system or someone other way to allow the player to control his army during the battle (also add in a pause option as well).

Who can disagree? Archers, stay here and use your bows as much as possible. Caavlry, follow me.

3. Make the two factions more unique through adding in unique faction equipment (weapons,armor,equipment etc...) and maybe custom skills/faction bonuses/player titles as well as the player advances through the ranks (after joining a certain faction)

I already think we have certain bonusses. Swadians seems to be stronger, while Vaegirs are easier to use. But equipment would fit, I mean we already have Black, nomad and Khergit equipment, why not Swadian and Vaegir?

4. Add more content in future versions such as more factions and maybe addditonal factionless bad guys like the dangerous dark hunter.

Well... As it is now we have more or less all the types there are. Perfect infantry in Sea Raiders, mish mash in bandits, mostly mounted in Steppe Bandits, fully mounted in Khergits, seriously powerful and deadly in Darks and finally we have the balanced military forces.

5. Allow multiple saved games per character instead of just one

Agreed. Who wants to lose an almost perfect character or one you have personalized a lot.

6. Make it easier to talk to "behind the counter" tavern owners. In the current system it's a pain to line your character up properly.

I would say, move it close to the door. I have not problem in getting to the counter and talking, but it is simply too far away (unless there is plans to have barbrawls and interaction with others in the tavern).

7. Increase the vareity of missions and also make sure the missions can be completed. For example chasing the noble party with a speed of 7.9 across the map with a party with a speed of 6.5 is not fun. Add in patrol missions or missions were you support the invasion of the other faction's territory.

Get more horses, or use tactics. Move in front of them, let them get away at night, then when they are out of sight move after them (they will stop and pause for a good while).
But yeah, more missions. Uprisings, hunting down deserters ect ect.

8. Rebalance infantry and calvary. Currently infantry units are nowhere good as calvary units since they don't have the trample ability and also move too slow. This means they join the battle longer after the calvary units have been engaged. Missile units are also pretty worthless since they tend to put away their ranged weapons and get easily killed in melee battles since they don't have shield.

Have you faced Sea Raiders much? They are absolutely deadly, even cavalry has trouble dealing with them, and their ranged capability is awesome.
Let the system be as it is. Light cavalry is in trouble against infantry, heavy cavalry is in trouble once they stop, and they do get bogged down now and then.

9. Add into different upgrade paths so the different factions are unique instead of having the same units. For example on faction might have better infantry while the other might have better calvary. One faction might have access to horse archers while the other depends mainly on shock calvary.

As I mentioned earlier, I think there is a difference already. But making it more profound would be lovely. And horse archers would be perfect.

10. Add in more world events (similar to the dark hunter showing up) to keep the game interesting. Add in things like massive invasions by the nomads or sea raiders to keep things interesting. Have the player work with both factions to end the invasions such as killing the invasion's leaders (similar to boss battles).

A large Khergit invasion or Dark Hunter attack... Hmm... Yes, why not.

 

[Fidelis]

I would really hate to see a pause option added to the game, and I doubt armagan is keen on adding one. He's said before that he doesn't want the game to become too micromanaged, and I definitely agree with him. Games like Rome: Total War are great, but this game puts more emphasis on action and combat (at least on the battlefield). More AI commands would be good, but I don't want to select them and move them around myself. I'd rather order archers to take high ground, tell knights to follow me in a flanking maneuver, and order a final charge once the enemy lines are crushed by cavalry.

I don't want to select my archer and right-click on a river pirate, select my knight and right-click on a river pirate, select my other knight and right-click on a river pirate. I just want to shout, "Charge!"

edit: But I would definitely love separate commands for cavalry, infantry, and ranged soldiers. I don't want a point-and-click type of command, however.

 

[Cleitan]

Pause? You press ESC to pause at anytime....

 

[etalian]

A few more suggestions:

1. Well a possible command system would be assigning number keys to your different groups and then being able to issue orders to selected groups. You could also have icons under a small unit card showing the unit's current status such as it's current order, average health and if it's fighting/shooting arrows (similar to Rome:TW)

I can see why people would not like a RTS system since B&M is focused on you charging in and helping your soldiers cut down the enemy.

2. As for performance problems I turned off all the fancy graphics options last night an still got slideshow performance on large battles. The graphics code needs to be optimized since I get great performance in games with much better graphics such as Farcry and Halflife 2.

3. Right now the differences between infantry, ranged units and calvary are:
Calvary: Good for catching horse archers, can knock over bad guys. But very vunerable to infantry since the AI tend to get stuck and the infantry easily kill the calvaryman. Of course knight units just trample the infantry and tend to last much longer since they don't get stuck
Infantry: Very slow, but better close quarter fighting AI. Vunerable to missile fire if they don't have a shield and can't catch horse archers.
Missile Units: Might be useful against infantry if you could move them into the right spot in later versions but are vunerable to calvary units.

4. A better command system and unit AI would make ranged units like archers much more effective since you could move them to good spots like having them guard a ford (water slows all units down). Also increasing the infantry walk speed slightly might decrease the wait time in battles.

5. Maybe balance the weapons a bit as well since I reason I put points into polearms is to use the lance. Some "best" weapons are better than others.

For example a sword of war is better than the best axe since it's faster, does only slightly less damage and has slightly more reach as well. Axes should be slightly more effective against troops with heavy protection like
dark knight compared to swords. After all axes were popular weapons in the past since the center of mass is located at the cutting edge leading to better effectiveness against armor.