10 hours of killing Khuzait, are they too strong? (poll)

Are the Khuzait too strong as a faction in singleplayer?


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Alright.


This video starts a war with Khuzait and very... painfully... slowly... agonizingly... illustrates the respawning issue of the lords and their defection to the Khuzait empire. For over 10 hours you can watch for yourself how slaughtering thousands... and I do mean literally thousands ... of these guys had NO effect on their holdings through multiple wars with other factions. The immediate respawn of lords is just unreal, the amount of farming these guys needed to level is beyond reasonable.

I thought before this was a matter of army balance, but no, Vlandia was only and hour or two just before this to curtail their expansion. I thought ok, I'll push the Khuzait back a bit and keep them from taking over. And I was able to hold them off for 10 hours, but not push them back at all. They just traded frontline cities with all the other factions for that long under more or less constant destruction of their lords parties..

Maybe your play experience has been similar or you could share some thoughts on this. I know its long, it was long to play, too. I record it, unedited with all the mistakes and stupid things I did. But I really get the impression that Khuzait are superior not from army balance, except for a higher use of cavalry and movement speed, but from the ability to recruit and economic strength. I don't think they are balanced in the current state and why they are so strong every game is the matter at hand.

In paticular they seem to run over Northern Empire very quickly, and the whole of the east empire is usually within their control in the first few hundred days. After that they are near unstoppable without player intervention.
 

AnandaShanti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
No I can beat them into oblivion on my own with no kingdom, vassals or other parties on hardest settings. I can weaken them or wipe them out outright. I take an hold any fief of theirs I want very early in the game, like under day 60 no problem.
The campaign AI needs some hard limits to stop snowballing and slow down the AI from ruining the map and also improvements to combat AI and units and heritage perks among many other things. Saying Khuziat is OP is not only wrong (all factions are weak) but a lazy way of looking at fixing the games problems.
 

karijus

Regular
In my one long play of Sturgia they got rekt, with a bit of help from me. Empire and me from the north just ate them up. Not sure what I did though, I think just besieged some of their castles/cities early on and that was it.
 

Waybook

Sergeant
The campaign AI needs some hard limits to stop snowballing and slow down the AI from ruining the map

They could stop the snowballing with some rebellion and civil war mechanics - if one kingdom starts to grow too big, then it has a higher chance of breaking up into several smaller kingdoms.

That said, the Khuzait faction always does pretty well in my playthroughs. They rarely lose any territory. I assumed it was because of the cavalry auto-resolve bonus. I think the bonus should be reduced in forests, mountains, marshes, villages etc.
 

Trauko

Recruit
Besides the whole horses > footman thing, this is what really annoys me: they spam armies like nothing!
I dont have evidence, but I remember I ragequit a save because I was trying to take Epicrotea from them.
At first Monchug came with an army of 1500, ok I said, I had a big army, so no problem. We defeated them, we captured them. Then, before the 2nd siege tower was ready, another 1500 army lead by Mesui was poking me. Fine! I can take them, we had massive casualties but somehow we manage to keep 400 or so mens. Now guess what, before we had the 3rd trebuchet ready, FREAKING MONCHUG AGAIN with another 1500 army!!
All the captured lords escaped, recruited 100~ soldiers, took an airplane from the steppes to Epicrotea in less than a week.
We got our butts handed to us, captured. We were travelling as prisioners to Diathma, and guess what!? We pass by Mesui with yet another 700 army.

Still, as I said in another post, that was pre-1.4 (1.2 iirc). In 1.4.1 they are in line with other factions. I just wanted to vent a little.
 
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missionAvs

Regular
Besides the whole horses > footman thing, this is what really annoys me: they spam armies like nothing!
I dont have evidence, but I remember I ragequit a save because I was trying to take Epicrotea from them.
At first Monchug came with an army of 1500, ok I said, I had a big army, so no problem. We defeated them, we captured them. Then, before the 2nd siege tower was ready, another 1500 army lead by Mesui was poking me. Fine! I can take them, we had massive casualties but somehow we manage to keep 400 or so mens. Now guess what, before we had the 3rd trebuchet ready, FREAKING MONCHUG AGAIN with another 1500 army!!
All the captured lords escaped, recruited 100~ soldiers, took an airplane from the steppes to Epicrotea in less than a week.
We got our butts handed to us, captured. We were travelling as prisioners to Diathma, and guess what!? We pass by Mesui with yet another 700 army.

Still, as I said in another post, that was pre-1.4 (1.2 iirc). In 1.4.1 they are in line with other factions. I just wanted to vent a little.

Haha I had a similar experience but instead of besieging one of their castles/towns, I started hunting them down and chopping off their heads. Literally any lord with a Khuzait background lost their life on that playthrough. That made them crumble pretty quickly.
 

Owen Wulfson

Knight at Arms
I mean, the studio that made this game is Turkish. Makes sense that they would "favor" the Khuzaits (nomad lineage and all that) in terms of faction balancing :wink:

Granted, at least in Warband the Khergits were so bad at sieges that it kind of balanced out. The Khuzaits, however, have no such disadvantage...
 
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Bibito

Veteran
I stopped playing beta because of this reason, waiting for next update or your should try mods, there are good ones fixing diplomacy problems
 

Maggot Toes

Veteran
I've mentioned before I don't think the problem is diplomacy, auto-resolve, archer cavalry, or even prisoner escapes (although annoying). The strategic map is a numbers game, he who has the most lords and clans tends to win. Weak kingdoms I've noticed tend to get defecting lords only for them to leave again in a few days, whereas I notice Khuzaits tend to get a lot of defections to them and they don't leave as often. If there were no limits on party size then a few clans could raise gigantic armies based purely on economics and overwhelm a lot of smaller parties.
 

Owen Wulfson

Knight at Arms
Oh they really do, at least in my experience, the problem roots in how autocalc sieges work.

The autocalc advantage given to attacking armies is enough to make the Khuzait's disadvantage disappear. I've rarely been in a siege battle, and when I was the enemy just overwhelmed the garrison when they had twice our number. In an actual siege battle in a remotely defendable keep or castle, that kind of ratio should result in an easy win for the defenders against the attackers - but this is Bannerlord and the front gate is made of cheap plywood...
 

karijus

Regular
I've mentioned before I don't think the problem is diplomacy, auto-resolve, archer cavalry, or even prisoner escapes (although annoying). The strategic map is a numbers game, he who has the most lords and clans tends to win. Weak kingdoms I've noticed tend to get defecting lords only for them to leave again in a few days, whereas I notice Khuzaits tend to get a lot of defections to them and they don't leave as often. If there were no limits on party size then a few clans could raise gigantic armies based purely on economics and overwhelm a lot of smaller parties.

I noticed that too. In my Sturgia play I had probably the least clans, even while controlling half the map. Having a lot of clans should increase the risk of a civil war or something, which would fit the Mongol and Empire theme lol.
 
Besides the whole horses > footman thing, this is what really annoys me: they spam armies like nothing!
I dont have evidence, but I remember I ragequit a save because I was trying to take Epicrotea from them.
At first Monchug came with an army of 1500, ok I said, I had a big army, so no problem. We defeated them, we captured them. Then, before the 2nd siege tower was ready, another 1500 army lead by Mesui was poking me. Fine! I can take them, we had massive casualties but somehow we manage to keep 400 or so mens. Now guess what, before we had the 3rd trebuchet ready, FREAKING MONCHUG AGAIN with another 1500 army!!
All the captured lords escaped, recruited 100~ soldiers, took an airplane from the steppes to Epicrotea in less than a week.
We got our butts handed to us, captured. We were travelling as prisioners to Diathma, and guess what!? We pass by Mesui with yet another 700 army.

Still, as I said in another post, that was pre-1.4 (1.2 iirc). In 1.4.1 they are in line with other factions. I just wanted to vent a little.
😂Same town different faction, the Sturgians kept coming back with one large army after the other, when the 4th army show up I just alt+f4.

I mean, the studio that made this game is Turkish. Makes sense that they would "favor" the Khuzaits (nomad lineage and all that) in terms of faction balancing :wink:

Granted, at least in Warband the Khergits were so bad at sieges that it kind of balanced out. The Khuzaits, however, have no such disadvantage...
Did you not play Warband, the Khergits were a joke for a decade. Now they win and you make up conspiracy about the same guys 🙄
 

Ichon

Sergeant
They could stop the snowballing with some rebellion and civil war mechanics - if one kingdom starts to grow too big, then it has a higher chance of breaking up into several smaller kingdoms.

That said, the Khuzait faction always does pretty well in my playthroughs. They rarely lose any territory. I assumed it was because of the cavalry auto-resolve bonus. I think the bonus should be reduced in forests, mountains, marshes, villages etc.

+1
 
Besides the whole horses > footman thing, this is what really annoys me: they spam armies like nothing!
I dont have evidence, but I remember I ragequit a save because I was trying to take Epicrotea from them.
At first Monchug came with an army of 1500, ok I said, I had a big army, so no problem. We defeated them, we captured them. Then, before the 2nd siege tower was ready, another 1500 army lead by Mesui was poking me. Fine! I can take them, we had massive casualties but somehow we manage to keep 400 or so mens. Now guess what, before we had the 3rd trebuchet ready, FREAKING MONCHUG AGAIN with another 1500 army!!
All the captured lords escaped, recruited 100~ soldiers, took an airplane from the steppes to Epicrotea in less than a week.
We got our butts handed to us, captured. We were travelling as prisioners to Diathma, and guess what!? We pass by Mesui with yet another 700 army.

Still, as I said in another post, that was pre-1.4 (1.2 iirc). In 1.4.1 they are in line with other factions. I just wanted to vent a little.

I typically avoid fighting the armies for this reason and just go after the lords. Max army size I can get without spending influence is around 700, and continually spending influence to lead armies against this zerg hasn't proven fruitful or enjoyable. Siege is still pretty broken and requires a lot of autoresolve for AI issues. I think these things will get fixed but it's not in a good state right now imo.
 
I mean, the studio that made this game is Turkish. Makes sense that they would "favor" the Khuzaits (nomad lineage and all that) in terms of faction balancing :wink:

Granted, at least in Warband the Khergits were so bad at sieges that it kind of balanced out. The Khuzaits, however, have no such disadvantage...

Lol, I didn't want to say this but I don't disagree with you :smile: And I did not play warband. I don't think this is a serious issue but its hard not to feel this way sometimes.
 
I've mentioned before I don't think the problem is diplomacy, auto-resolve, archer cavalry, or even prisoner escapes (although annoying). The strategic map is a numbers game, he who has the most lords and clans tends to win. Weak kingdoms I've noticed tend to get defecting lords only for them to leave again in a few days, whereas I notice Khuzaits tend to get a lot of defections to them and they don't leave as often. If there were no limits on party size then a few clans could raise gigantic armies based purely on economics and overwhelm a lot of smaller parties.

The defection is a real issue and relates to snowballing, but this is also how the game is won to a degree, balancing is key. Right now it sort of feels like to me it happens a little too quick in relation to character progression.
 
This is another way to see it, thanks for the other side of the coin.
Your welcome.
I am close to 500 hrs now with this game. and 5000hrs with WB. Now i like a challenge when you get to mid game.say have an Army of about 250 troops. go and fight an Army from all Factions with same numbers or there abouts. they are so easy.. whats the point in playing a game thats easy no point .. But if you fight against the Khuzait Its a challenge you may or may not win.
When i played WB at the start of the game it asked you to pick auto save... that ment you can not save why playing. this alone made the game more of a challenge as you had to pick if you fight or not as there is no going back....with BL. you can play the hole game with out having to lose once. as you save before each battle until you win.... the thing is they need to stop making the game easy for people make it more of a challenge .. add Auto save at the start for those who want it. and for those that dont ... just dont tick it.
Up the troops for all Factions. but the Khuzait as they are fine.....well thats my rant for the day.
 
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