1 person disorganized?

[Doofus]

How can 1 person be in a disorganized state? It pains me every time I escape or get released from captivity how slow I am. I assume its because of that disorganized state thing. I just spent more than 1/3rd of my wealth getting away, with more than 1/2 of that because of a secondary encounter due to slow speed. 1 person shouldn't be disorganized. They should be pretty much running in a panic. I checked, I'm not over my weight limit and my horse isn't missing or lame. I'm not disabled or anything, being over 20% health. Any place else in the game the smaller the party the faster they are. Fix the damn 'released from imprisonment' speed.

 

[Doofus]

I'm outrun on my own, on a healthy horse without prisoners and not encumbered, by looters and mountain bandits with a dozen troops. Just now, I was going 3.5 in broad daylight...then I recruited (6) 1st level empire recruits and now I'm going 6.1. Are these low level inexperienced fighters carrying me, and faster than my horse can?

 

[Apocal]

I'm outrun on my own, on a healthy horse without prisoners and not encumbered, by looters and mountain bandits with a dozen troops. Just now, I was going 3.5 in broad daylight...then I recruited (6) 1st level empire recruits and now I'm going 6.1. Are these low level inexperienced fighters carrying me, and faster than my horse can?

Are you taking a Herd penalty?

 

[SOku]

As far as I know there is no such thing about disorganized state, but while you're wounded and you should also check not only your character but also your whole party, you got a movement speed malus.
To answer anything about your question you should get a check on your movement speed value and see exactly why you're being slow. ( arrow on your bottom-right corner -> Party Speed )

EDIT : there are a lot of things affecting your movement speed, the terrain could be it ( e.g the forests, mountains, the snow etc ... ) so without seeing any screenshot that's pretty hard to say, have a look at your value while you play.
(edited bottom-left to bottom-right ... sorry )

 

[Apocal]

As far as I know there is no such thing about disorganized state

There is. It comes after you finish a battle but it disappears after a few hours (in game time).

 

[SOku]

Oh well I didn't know about that, I assumed it was because of my wounds. I should have applied my own advices then, you learn everyday.

 

[Arkyll]

The speed tab ought to not be hidden beneath a drop down icon.

 

[Doofus]

Never noticed a speed tab before. I don't get captured often and I hope I don't have to check it soon, but if I'm on a healthy horse, being wounded shouldn't slow me down too much. The terrain was open plains, which is where my bonuses are. I 've seen the term, but have no idea what a herd penalty is. I'm the only one in my party though and I lost almost all my horses when I was taken prisoner, so I don't know why something called a herd penalty would hurt my speed. Its also weird that when I add level 1 recruits, without horses, to my party I speed up. It makes no sense. If I was showing as encumbered I could understand, but I checked that and I'm not encumbered. I reported this as a bug and still think it is. I don't know why they moved it to a general discussion forum.

 

[madnessario]

Never noticed a speed tab before. I don't get captured often and I hope I don't have to check it soon, but if I'm on a healthy horse, being wounded shouldn't slow me down too much. The terrain was open plains, which is where my bonuses are. I 've seen the term, but have no idea what a herd penalty is. I'm the only one in my party though and I lost almost all my horses when I was taken prisoner, so I don't know why something called a herd penalty would hurt my speed. Its also weird that when I add level 1 recruits, without horses, to my party I speed up. It makes no sense. If I was showing as encumbered I could understand, but I checked that and I'm not encumbered. I reported this as a bug and still think it is. I don't know why they moved it to a general discussion forum.

That is most likely herd penalty! If you are alone you can have two horses with you (one to ride + one). The moment you added a troop to your party, you were able to have 4 horses, hence the increase in speed.

 

[Medivhtratos]

It's also a morale penalty if you are round 18 or so you're movement gets really slowed down

 

[Apocal]

The terrain was open plains, which is where my bonuses are. I 've seen the term, but have no idea what a herd penalty is. I'm the only one in my party though and I lost almost all my horses when I was taken prisoner, so I don't know why something called a herd penalty would hurt my speed. Its also weird that when I add level 1 recruits, without horses, to my party I speed up. It makes no sense.

Yep, that's the Herd penalty. If you're alone, you can only have two animals in your inventory. After that, you start taking a massive (at this point) speed debuff. Every guy in your party can handle a certain number of horses or livestock (sheep, cows, etc.). The reason adding recruits to your party speeds you up is because they handle the excess animals and get rid of your Herd penalty.

 

[Doofus]

Actually, I think I only had 2 horses in my inventory, plus the one I was riding. Not sure, I've moved on. But I think the game pretty much takes away all but a horse or two once you are captured. In any case, thanks for explaining the herd penalty. At least I know what it is now.

 

[Spinozart1]

Here are some concrete figures I collected with one of my character.
The hero is on foot, NOT mounting any horse.

Hero alone	0 mule	1 mule	2 mules	3 mules	4 mules
0 horse	5,0	5,0	3,5	2,0	1,0
1 horse	6,0	6,0	4,5	3,0	2,0
2 horses	6,0	4,5	3,0	2,0	2,0
3 horses	4,5	3,0	2,0	2,0	2,0
4 horses	3,0	2,0	2,0	2,0	2,0

Hero + 3 footmen	0 mule	1 mule	2 mules	3 mules	4 mules
0 horse	5,0	5,0	5,0	5,0	5,0
1 horse	5,2	5,2	5,2	5,2	5,2
2 horses	5,5	5,5	5,5	5,5	5,5
3 horses	5,7	5,7	5,7	5,7	5,7
4 horses	6,0	6,0	6,0	6,0	6,0

As you can see, you get no herd penalty if you respect the following golden rule: "one human + one horse + one livestock"
Of course there are other paramaters that influence the party speed as bonus from perks, penalty from encumbrance, low morale, environment etc...

Actually, I think I only had 2 horses in my inventory, plus the one I was riding.

That makes 3 animals, giving you a penalty.
And if the horses were "stumper horse" type, then it is considered as livestock, resulting in even worse penalty.

 

[Doofus]

Thanks, I guess that explains it, at least part of it. Presumably the horse I was riding also counts against me, which would have made 3 horses. Still doesn't explain why I was only going 3.5, but at least it explains a minor slowdown. Don't remember specific details, but in addition to the horse I was riding (a regular horse) the other two were to different types. I think they were both horse types, which means possibly a sumpter horse and a regular horse. Could have been sumpter & mule though.

 

[el_infante]

That makes 3 animals, giving you a penalty.
And if the horses were "stumper horse" type, then it is considered as livestock, resulting in even worse penalty.

Thank you! I wasn't aware a single soldier can handle both a horse and a mule. That alone changes thing a lot.

 

[Apocal]

That makes 3 animals, giving you a penalty.
And if the horses were "stumper horse" type, then it is considered as livestock, resulting in even worse penalty.

Just FYI, your party was probably getting the mounted footman bonus when you had even a single horse, not an additional penalty for livestock. I could be wrong but hauling around loads of sheep doesn't seem to affect the Herd penalty compared to loads of spare horses.

 

[Spinozart1]

Just FYI, your party was probably getting the mounted footman bonus when you had even a single horse, not an additional penalty for livestock. I could be wrong but hauling around loads of sheep doesn't seem to affect the Herd penalty compared to loads of spare horses.

Sorry, I think I may misunderstand your comment but...
In the first line of the table with 3 footmen, we don't see any herd penalty because it is one mule per person (adding a fifth mule will result in a herd penalty).
We can see the mounted footman bonus effect from line 2 (as you said).

So basically it is:
1 human + 1 horse: speed bonus
1 human + 1 livestock (sheep, mule, stumper hors): no effect
1 human + 1 horse + 1 livestock: speed bonus

Maybe things are different with sheeps and cows. Gonna give a look.

 

[Medivhtratos]

And here the mathematics from the code with e.g.

num = Number of available Horses = 1
num3=Pack and Livestockanimals = 1
num4=TotalMenCount = 1
num8 = Number of Men without a Horse = 1


int num11 = Math.Min(num8, num); = num11= 1
num3 += Math.Max(0, num - num11); =num3 = 1 + 0 = 1



float herdingModifier = this.GetHerdingModifier(num4, num3); so (1 and 1 )to the herdingModifierMethod



private float GetHerdingModifier(int totalMenCount, int herdSize)
{
herdSize -= totalMenCount; ========> 1-1 = 0 (new herdsize)
if (herdSize <= 0) ================> if the herdsize is 0 or lower than return 0 so in our case its exactly 0
{
return 0f;
}
if (totalMenCount == 0) =========>If all Troops including yourself(wounded) => -0.8f penality
{
return -0.8f;
}
return Math.Max(-0.8f, -0.3f * ((float)herdSize / (float)totalMenCount));=====> this codepiece gives a result if the "new herdsize" is greater than 0 AND you have more than 1 troop
}

 

[Spinozart1]

And here the mathematics from the code with e.g.

num = Number of available Horses = 1
num3=Pack and Livestockanimals = 1
num4=TotalMenCount = 1
num8 = Number of Men without a Horse = 1


int num11 = Math.Min(num8, num); = num11= 1
num3 += Math.Max(0, num - num11); =num3 = 1 + 0 = 1



float herdingModifier = this.GetHerdingModifier(num4, num3); so (1 and 1 )to the herdingModifierMethod



private float GetHerdingModifier(int totalMenCount, int herdSize)
{
herdSize -= totalMenCount; ========> 1-1 = 0 (new herdsize)
if (herdSize <= 0) ================> if the herdsize is 0 or lower than return 0 so in our case its exactly 0
{
return 0f;
}
if (totalMenCount == 0) =========>If all Troops including yourself(wounded) => -0.8f penality
{
return -0.8f;
}
return Math.Max(-0.8f, -0.3f * ((float)herdSize / (float)totalMenCount));=====> this codepiece gives a result if the "new herdsize" is greater than 0 AND you have more than 1 troop
}

Thanks for the code and example.
I'm kinda learning C# by myself, just for the fun.
I did check the code using dnSpy but couldn't figure out how herdSize and totalMenCount is determined...
In your example you are saying that totalMenCount == 0 means if all troops + hero are wounded.
So I suppose that totalmenCount means "Total ready for battle men".
Any input would be nice ?

 

[Medivhtratos]

So I suppose that totalmenCount means "Total ready for battle men".
Any input would be nice ?

Correct.