1.7 - Too many noble troops available

Users who are viewing this thread

Anyone else annoyed by how easy it is to recruit noble troops now? Before, I used to rush to get 150 leadership so that it'd make it easier to get fians (having said that, I've always thought bandits converting to noble line seems incredibly wrong. Bandits becoming nobles? Right).

Anyhow, it's totally pointless to get that leadership perk since there's really no issue getting noble troops now. In fact, there's just too many. I don't even need horses anymore because nearly every imperial town has loads of horsemen.
 
I used to take great care on preserving my cavalry because of how difficult it was to obtain them but nowadays, my imperial cataphracts are literally my shock troops. There's no point in hiring infantry anymore.
 
Anyone else annoyed by how easy it is to recruit noble troops now? Before, I used to rush to get 150 leadership so that it'd make it easier to get fians (having said that, I've always thought bandits converting to noble line seems incredibly wrong. Bandits becoming nobles? Right).

Anyhow, it's totally pointless to get that leadership perk since there's really no issue getting noble troops now. In fact, there's just too many. I don't even need horses anymore because nearly every imperial town has loads of horsemen.
+1
 
I always thought that scarcity of noble troops was intended. Have just came back into the game from a 10-month break. Was quite surprised with the current availability of noble recruits.

But grinding stupid village/city quests in order to have a powerful squadron of 5 cataphracts??? Nah, thanks. It's much worse.
If you are annoyed with the availability of noble troops, just set the recruitment difficulty to realistic or don't recruit them at all.
 
I always thought that scarcity of noble troops was intended. Have just came back into the game from a 10-month break. Was quite surprised with the current availability of noble recruits.

Me too! I'm still quite disappointed with the game and mass availability of noble recruits doesn't seem to improve the quality of the game.

But grinding stupid village/city quests in order to have a powerful squadron of 5 cataphracts??? Nah, thanks. It's much worse.
If you are annoyed with the availability of noble troops, just set the recruitment difficulty to realistic or don't recruit them at all.

Agreed. Grinding village quests doesn't make it appealing but it's not as simple as making recruitment more difficult. It's just the whole game seems to be at odds with itself.

There's no coherence in gameplay. Just recruit, smash and repeat.
 
Maybe if we could only recruit noble troops from castles? Link to a topic I made about it:

- It would play in with relationship mechanics, meaning that if you have low relations with a vassal, you may not be able to enter their castle to recruit noble troops.
- Will ensure that there will always be at least some troops available when all villages have been raided.
- Makes castles a useful travel location when recruiting.
- 1 notable per castle?
 
Maybe if we could only recruit noble troops from castles? Link to a topic I made about it:

- It would play in with relationship mechanics, meaning that if you have low relations with a vassal, you may not be able to enter their castle to recruit noble troops.
- Will ensure that there will always be at least some troops available when all villages have been raided.
- Makes castles a useful travel location when recruiting.
- 1 notable per castle?
They already brought forth and rejected this stuff. Getting more noble lines from villages attached to castles was the compromise. They didn't like the idea of troops coming "from" the castle.

You can literally win any field battle with just KGs. Even 100 vs 1000.
Yeah it's how the best troops should be, there's no excuse for the other nobles (though fians are okay) to be so crappy.
 
It's annoying to see a freshly destroyed noble spawn with 15 imperial cataphracts and 10 buccelarii. I understand they need to have some troops so they don't get stomped right away, but in my testing for a new bandit playthrough, all nobles have a ton of T6 units (even the minor clans lol there was an archer faction that had MORE T6 cavalry from the empire than their own archer units). I'm not sure if those scale with the availability like everyone is discussing or if it's unrelated?
 
Maybe if we could only recruit noble troops from castles? Link to a topic I made about it:
If I remember correctly, at early development stages TW intended to make noble troops recruitable from castles only. This concept was discussed in one of the earliest gameplay videos with devs' commentaries. It seems that at some point the concept was scrapped.

Anyhow, guys, this issue is really not a gamebreaker. You are not obliged to use noble troop lines in any way. Besides, if you find some troops too OP, try looking for rebalance mods. Vanilla troop balance is FUBAR and has been in such condition since the "release".
 
t's annoying to see a freshly destroyed noble spawn with 15 imperial cataphracts and 10 buccelarii. I understand they need to have some troops so they don't get stomped right away
In early game versions nobles spawned with basic troops only, and since AI cannot conserve elite troops and/or retreat when necessary, noble armies mostly consisted of recruits in mid-late game.
 
In early game versions nobles spawned with basic troops only, and since AI cannot conserve elite troops and/or retreat when necessary, noble armies mostly consisted of recruits in mid-late game.
It was good that the AI has to level up their troops, giving the AI free T6 troops is wrong in every way.
If the AI cheats, why should the player not.
 
This has been discussed before and it is not something new to 1.7. There are several advantages to easier access to elites for gameplay purposes.

It makes a melee based party more viable compared to a ranged based party by improving access to replacements.

It eliminates the need for various convoluted recruitment strategies such as that of the conversion of bandits or just letting allies get destroyed so you can swoop in and add the captured men to your ranks.

It also positively affect the AI´s access to decent level troops which again means we do not have waste time fighting armies comprised of 80% tier 1-2 troops.

Its a good thing!
 
This is something that really annoys me. I like to roleplay a rather balanced army comp instead of cheesing it with whatever unit is the strongest at the moment. When I roll up to a village and all I see is five Imperial heavy Cavalry, and two tier 1 recruits when I already have 50 elite cataphracts in my party and have to move on without recruiting anyone, it's really tedious.

Its a good thing!
No, it is not a good thing. This issue could be resolved by simply adding a recruiter NPC that every other mod introduced since the original M&B. Instead they chose to completely unbalance recruitment for both the AI and the player.
 
+1 to OP.

Noble troops were too difficult to get pre 1.5, but now they're way too easy to get.

It makes them feel less special, and also it makes certain troops nearly useless when a straight upgrade to them exists and is common - why would you want to upgrade your troops into the Vlandian Vanguard or Khuzait Heavy Horse Archer, when the Vlandian Banner Knight and Khuzait Khan's Guard are far better at fulfilling the same role?

The amount of noble recruits in castle-bound villages should be halved.
I always thought that scarcity of noble troops was intended. Have just came back into the game from a 10-month break. Was quite surprised with the current availability of noble recruits.

But grinding stupid village/city quests in order to have a powerful squadron of 5 cataphracts??? Nah, thanks. It's much worse.
There's such a thing as a happy medium. A midpoint between the old situation where they were almost impossible to get and the current situation where they're way too easy to get.
If you are annoyed with the availability of noble troops, just set the recruitment difficulty to realistic or don't recruit them at all.
That doesn't stop the AI from recruiting them.

Part of the issue is that they don't feel like the special "super rare endgame content the player has to work towards and feels rewarded when they reach them" they're meant to be, when almost every single war party on the map has them comprising nearly 25% of their forces!
Yeah it's how the best troops should be, there's no excuse for the other nobles (though fians are okay) to be so crappy.
I agree the other elite units should also be buffed, through changes to armor and cavalry mechanics.

However the Khan's Guard are too strong, they go too far in the other direction.

Currently 50 Banner Knights can barely defeat 150 Recruits, a force 3X their number.
While 50 Khan's Guard can easily defeat 500 Recruits, a force 10X their number.

In a game which is reasonably grounded in most other areas, that is pretty unrealistic.

It also makes it too hard to balance melee troops up to their level. Since Khan's Guard are well armoured, great archers, and basically kill in one hit in melee without needing to charge first, if you didn't nerf their melee abilities, it would be impossible for melee-only noble troops (Banner Knights, Druzhinik, Elite Cataphracts) to ever compete.

I say buff the other options significantly and nerf KG a bit, so that (roughly speaking), any sort of T6 troop is capable of defeating a force of T1 recruits that outnumbers them 6X.
There are several advantages to easier access to elites for gameplay purposes.
It makes a melee based party more viable compared to a ranged based party by improving access to replacements.
Fixing armour so that it gives proper protection against ranged damage would automatically fix that problem, so we can reduce the number of noble recruits and not worry about that.
It eliminates the need for various convoluted recruitment strategies such as that of the conversion of bandits
On the contrary, it's a good thing if noble troops are uncommon enough so the player wants to get that perk. Otherwise, if noble troops are super common like they are now, why would you bother getting that perk- and the hassle of leveling up bandits through a long upgrade tree - at all?
It also positively affect the AI´s access to decent level troops which again means we do not have waste time fighting armies comprised of 80% tier 1-2 troops.
But the AI can just get Tier 3-5 troops. They don't need lots of noble troops for their army to not be all T1-2.
 
Last edited:
I had no issues with this, this is make more fun game for me, I don't like gird lot, and I love more options, gave more freedom to choice and more way to had fun to play, if one don't like it, then simple choice not to hire those troop, just pick other, it's that easy! I don't need my game to be ruined by who don't like option or want to ruin game by more limited.

Only thing I had issues is Vlandian Vanguard and Vlandian Banner Knight line, I think Vlandian Vanguard should get first free upgrade horse sometime it's even cheaper to get Vlandian Banner Knight than Vlandian Vanguard because Vlandian Vanguard you had to buy mount 2 time, while Banner Knight only one time buy mount, since it's already come with first one, cost 200 gold to buy. So I think Vlandian Vanguard should get one first free upgrade mount, then after that had to buy war mount to get final line.

So petty much, normal solder should get first free mount upgrade, so it's make sense to use more often vanguard than bannerlord in cheaper way to get. I'm not sure about other, but this is one thing I don't get it, what is different vanguard and bannerlord other than normal and noble class?
I find it's cheaper and faster to had noble than normal troop because noble already had normal mount at start while you had to buy 2 time for vanguard line while noble only one time for war mount.

For time and money Banner Knight is way better than Vanguard in long term of upgrade, start to final.

Or normal troop get free upgrade without had to buy mount or something like that, so it's make sense it's cheaper and spent lot of time to level your normal troop than noble one. What is hurt Vanguard is had to buy 2 time mount, plus spent lot of time upgrade, lot of work, while noble is right off the bat.
Vanguard is same power as Vlandian Knight in banner Knight line. You don't need to upgrade all the way to banner Knight, Vlandian Knight is just good without need to buy war mount while Vanguard need 2 mount, that is cost about 1,000 denser then more denser and time to upgrade while Vlandian Knight is only 200 denser before buying war mount.

That's why I think Vanguard should get first free upgrade to light cavalry, so it's easy worthwhile to had normal troop for cost, but banner knight (Knight before war mount is still cheaper than vanguard, however)

I had no issues with available of noble, but I do had issues way noble and normal troop upgrade time and cost so I think normal troop should had free upgrade or something like that since normal troop spent lot of time battle, loot and more experience than noble do at start out the line, so troop should get free upgrade with mount or something like that.
 
Last edited:
Hello @Strat , pardon me for my request, i don't know it is correct way of searching the truth, but can you pull an examination on this matter whenever possible ?

Like multiple times of controlling which percentage they have in their faction's total troop count.

For example Southern Empire has a total amount of 8000 troops and %25 of it's are noble line troops. (in their economically best and also economically worst moments etc.)

Or Sturgia has 6000 troops and %20 of it is noble line troop etc.

I wondering this because if it's really more than 1/3 of their armies at most, maybe some nerf might needed.

I like them actually, they add more challenge to the player. But if they're consisting like half of their armies then it's not plausible imo. At least realistically.

And quadrupling their wage is definately a must. If it's not brake AI's economy balance. Players should feel that they marching with an really expensive gucci army, if s/he choose this path and marching with full of T6s.
 
They already brought forth and rejected this stuff. Getting more noble lines from villages attached to castles was the compromise. They didn't like the idea of troops coming "from" the castle.
That's really dumb :-/
Getting nobles from castle certainly makes much more sense than from villages.

Guess that's another thing I'll have to mod in my game.
 
Back
Top Bottom