In Progress 1.7.0 Reinforcement.

[Gadheras]

Love the new maps and all.. but...

Having a large army battle, and your enemy withdraw and camp in the corner or further back on the map etc. Then you advance and battle take place. Their reinforcements now start appear behind your lines and attack you in the back. The same applies if I''m outnumbered and fall back to a better position to defend. I watch in horror as my reinfocements keep tricke in behind the enemy lines and walk straight through them to get to their units.

If the enemy army start withdraw, all their reinforcements need to pop into the world to do the same, having large amounts of units spawn behind your guys that is in disarray from chasing the enemy is bad....

Reinforcements need to be changed in the the way they spawn in on the field to always be behind their own units/party. .

 

[uçanbiblo]

Hey, i have informed the devs about the issue. Thank you for reporting it in.

 

[dan33]

I was about to post the same thing but as there have been a few post im going to add my bit and this post explains the issue i have a problem with perfectly.


The reinforcements magically spawning on to the battlefield has been an issue with mount and blade for as long as i can remember and i feel it really does need looking at with bannerlord.
Im enjoying the progress thats being made with the game but i feel this does need serious looking at for the reasons stated by the OP.
Do i have a solution? Well not really my best idea (for a long time) has been to have them walk on to the map like troops would in real life, they would enter the battle area and move to where the main units are or are moving too to regroup.

I dont mind what solution you settle with but this magically spawning on to the battlefield is really immersion breaking, ive learnt to deal with it over the years but some serious time and effort is needed to come up with a better idea.

 

[Zorion_no]

I was about to post the same thing but as there have been a few post im going to add my bit and this post explains the issue i have a problem with perfectly.


The reinforcements magically spawning on to the battlefield has been an issue with mount and blade for as long as i can remember and i feel it really does need looking at with bannerlord.
Im enjoying the progress thats being made with the game but i feel this does need serious looking at for the reasons stated by the OP.
Do i have a solution? Well not really my best idea (for a long time) has been to have them walk on to the map like troops would in real life, they would enter the battle area and move to where the main units are or are moving too to regroup.

I dont mind what solution you settle with but this magically spawning on to the battlefield is really immersion breaking, ive learnt to deal with it over the years but some serious time and effort is needed to come up with a better idea.

There is another solution than though, but its dependent on your machine.

Increase the amount of troops that can be in big battles.

While I do see armies of over 1k marching about its rare to see them actually clash.

Generally the armies tend to be about 500-700 that I see, a few 900, so if you up the battlesize it is less of an issue(its not a fix, but it kind of makes the issue not appar) (but then again if you dont have a rig that can deal with it, then its not going to work).

That said this have always been a "headache" imo.

Should have the spawn points be at the very edge of the maps for reinforcements, so that this isnt likely to occur.

 

[dan33]

I was using mods to battle size until the new maps came out in 1.7.0 and on most it works but there are a few it just crashes on load or crashes when the player hits ready, the main culprits are Tyal (around the town edges if army combat is initiated) and close to Epicrotea and around the nearby castle and bridge.
It amazes me this hasnt been fixed by now, its always been an issue for as long as i can remember and its so mind blowingly immersion breaking to have a huge force magically spawn in to the players archer unit or worse to spawn right behind the players infantry line.
I`ve always enjoyed being aggressive in battles and really hammering an enemy for a win but now i have to hold back in case the enemy teleports in on to the battle field, the most important and biggest part of the game still has this incredibly bad feature.
I dont know where it is in their priorities list (or even if its on the radar for fixing) but after all this time it needs to be near the top.

 

[Gadheras]

I was using mods to battle size until the new maps came out in 1.7.0 and on most it works but there are a few it just crashes on load or crashes when the player hits ready, the main culprits are Tyal (around the town edges if army combat is initiated) and close to Epicrotea and around the nearby castle and bridge.
It amazes me this hasnt been fixed by now, its always been an issue for as long as i can remember and its so mind blowingly immersion breaking to have a huge force magically spawn in to the players archer unit or worse to spawn right behind the players infantry line.
I`ve always enjoyed being aggressive in battles and really hammering an enemy for a win but now i have to hold back in case the enemy teleports in on to the battle field, the most important and biggest part of the game still has this incredibly bad feature.
I dont know where it is in their priorities list (or even if its on the radar for fixing) but after all this time it needs to be near the top.

The game crashing because you use mods, is not fault of the game though. That is fault of a bad mod...

 

[dan33]

Quite possibly although i tried several mods that increased battle size for those areas and all made the game crash when taking the amount of troops past what TW set the max at

 

[CptMuppet]

Quite possibly although i tried several mods that increased battle size for those areas and all made the game crash when taking the amount of troops past what TW set the max at

Some time ago I have found a topic on reddit about the hard limit of battle size, and people there have wrote that it is a little bit over 2000, but cavalry units take up two slots each. If I remember correctly, it's some AI limitation and horses count for this limit, so maybe that is the problem in your case?

After a quick search I have found a thread on talewords' forums that seems to confirm what I found earlier on reddit:

Honestly I am not sure why it is apparently hardcoded at 2048 but it appears from everything I have read on the subject that is the max the game will allow. Mod the game to 2048 and if you have the computer hardware to handle it, it is perfectly stable. 2049 and the game crashes so somewhere, somehow there is a hardcoded limitation.

TIP FOR PEOPLE MODDING THEIR MAX BATTLE SIZE: Also note, that Horses/Mounts count towards the Battle Size Limit, so if you try to spawn 2000 Cavalry, you're actually spawning 4000 AI in total, which will most likely crash your game!

 

[Finn]

This troops spawning behind shieldwall line completrly wreck whole battles if AI or I move behind my spawning point.

 

[uçanbiblo]

Hey, the issue is still an ongoing process on our team. I have been informed that it will be altered in further versions. Sorry for any inconvenience.

 

[mortache]

Came to this forum to complain about that. What's the point of a cute map with a nice bridge choke point if only 10% of my troops can hold it, while the rest 90% are slowly drippling in? Battles are always meat grinders and a race from spawn point to the front lines.

Honestly I would even be satisfied with a "proportional" tiny army, i.e convert my 1500 troops into 250 and just have those guys fight, same for the enemy. If you really want reinforcements, they should spawn right beside existing troops like they're doing mitosis lol. Otherwise why should I take a hill, or fortify a river bank when most of my troops will be coming scattered from the other side of the map? But the issue with such reinforcements in general is that my troops will inevitably keep getting weakened while the new enemy spawns with full hp, resulting in the aforementioned meatgrinder. This is immersion breaking and ahistorical. There used to be reinforcements but it wasn't 80-90% of the army.

 

[Antaeus]

Came to this forum to complain about that. What's the point of a cute map with a nice bridge choke point if only 10% of my troops can hold it, while the rest 90% are slowly drippling in? Battles are always meat grinders and a race from spawn point to the front lines.

Honestly I would even be satisfied with a "proportional" tiny army, i.e convert my 1500 troops into 250 and just have those guys fight, same for the enemy. If you really want reinforcements, they should spawn right beside existing troops like they're doing mitosis lol. Otherwise why should I take a hill, or fortify a river bank when most of my troops will be coming scattered from the other side of the map? But the issue with such reinforcements in general is that my troops will inevitably keep getting weakened while the new enemy spawns with full hp, resulting in the aforementioned meatgrinder. This is immersion breaking and ahistorical. There used to be reinforcements but it wasn't 80-90% of the army.

Reinforcements are fine... they just need to be logical... as in enter the map at the farthest point behind your initial pre-deployment location, rather than exactly on your initial pre-deployment spot.

I say it like it is easy to do...

 

[mortache]

Reinforcements are fine... they just need to be logical... as in enter the map at the farthest point behind your initial pre-deployment location, rather than exactly on your initial pre-deployment spot.

I say it like it is easy to do...

Sorry but missing 90% of my army and making every single battle turn into two streams of troops spawning and bumping into each other isn't "fine" in my books. Absolutely no tactics can be implemented in the game, at least not after bodies start piling up.

I think you and I do actually want similar things, but for me this current state just ruins the game. What do you think about dropping troops right behind existing troops? As if one troop multiplied into two like cell division? It would have issues in tight square formations though.

 

[Antaeus]

Sorry but missing 90% of my army and making every single battle turn into two streams of troops spawning and bumping into each other isn't "fine" in my books. Absolutely no tactics can be implemented in the game, at least not after bodies start piling up.

I think you and I do actually want similar things, but for me this current state just ruins the game. What do you think about dropping troops right behind existing troops? As if one troop multiplied into two like cell division? It would have issues in tight square formations though.

Think it through...

In a real battle, your reinforcements don't just magically turn up behind your lines... they have to make their way to you. What would be better, is if they arrived in clusters or in their own command groups - so you could do things with them as you would in reality. But that's going to be a difficult solve for the devs.

The problem, is that infantry try to join existing infantry, archers try to join existing archers etc... meaning you can't organise them, they just end up strewn across the map doing their own thing... it makes it difficult for the enemy too - who splinter across the map chasing them.

So battles end up as a chaotic scatter. This could be avoided if we could organise our reinforcements.

 

[Jtrainz]

Would really like to be able to set the spawn point during the pre battle, that would at least be something since your basically tied to wherever you happen to start at least if you could move it you could take advantage of the pre battle system and pick decent ground to fight on.

 

[mortache]

Think it through...

In a real battle, your reinforcements don't just magically turn up behind your lines... they have to make their way to you. What would be better, is if they arrived in clusters or in their own command groups - so you could do things with them as you would in reality. But that's going to be a difficult solve for the devs.

The problem, is that infantry try to join existing infantry, archers try to join existing archers etc... meaning you can't organise them, they just end up strewn across the map doing their own thing... it makes it difficult for the enemy too - who splinter across the map chasing them.

So battles end up as a chaotic scatter. This could be avoided if we could organise our reinforcements.

In a real battle the majority of the troops would be deployed, only a fraction be held back as reserves to strengthen any line that falters (apart from skirmishers and cavalry of course). It makes no sense that all my archers have to die so that the next batch can come and shoot their arrows. That is why the battle system is so jarring to me. Honestly, I'm almost tempted to learn modding in order to tailor it to my needs lol.

But yeah I agree that battles end up in a chaotic scatter which basically makes any tactics impossible after the initial engagement.