[1.7.0] Impossible to separate infantry types now into different formations?

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Here we go guys: https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/3931?tab=description

It's not perfect, but I'll keep making it better. It does the job for now.

Great job.

I think the way it's going right now, TW needs to continue making the vanilla game stable and Mod friendly so talented people can create more content/Mods to make the game more enjoyable.

@Grisch
I was reading your Nexus description and future plans and the problem with companion is that their equipment changes depending on the player and the situation, so it is difficult to assign them to those groups because they may conflict with the new slider system. That was the reason TW got rid of the old assignment (see what @MRay said in that post).
What I have noticed so far with companions is that bow and horse are the main things that determine their automatic assignment. If a companion carries a bow (crossbow), it is automatically assigned to a Ranged unit. If the same companion has a horse, then he is placed in a HA unit.
The main problem is dealing with companions!
 
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Great job.

I think the way it's going right now, TW needs to continue making the vanilla game stable and Mod friendly so talented people can create more content/Mods to make the game more enjoyable.

@Grisch
I was reading your Nexus description and future plans and the problem with companion is that their equipment changes depending on the player and the situation, so it is difficult to assign them to those groups because they may conflict with the new slider system. That was the reason TW got rid of the old assignment (see what @MRay said in that post).
What I have noticed so far with companions is that bow and horse are the main things that determine their automatic assignment. If a companion carries a bow (crossbow), it is automatically assigned to a Ranged unit. If the same companion has a horse, then he is placed in a HA unit.
The main problem is dealing with companions!
Honestly, my mod just trusts the player not to be an idiot. If they want to assign a bunch of foot troops to a horse archer formation, then they can do that. I might consider adding a button to the order of battle UI to 'unset' everything in a specific formation if they find themselves in a situation where they've screwed up their assignments, but that's way down the line. There are multiple potential solutions to it that I can think of.

Punishing everyone because some players MIGHT be too dumb not to mix unit types seems like the wrong way to go. As it is, you can assign unmounted companions to captain formations of mounted troops, so I'm not sure what the issue is anyway.
 
Not being able to assign troops and lords in the party screen is intended but the reasons are different.

Being able to assign troops to different formations would break the saved values and how the percentage sliders/filters work. If you could assign a horse archer to an infantry formation, you couldn't get him out of the infantry formation in current implementation of the OoB. Zeroing the Infantry slider in that formation would still keep the horse archer you put in there. OR we disregard the horse archer assigned there are, move him back to a horse archer formation when the slider value changes. Formations would be a mishmash of troops and it's not possible to represent that with sliders.

If we add all 4 troop type sliders to all of the cards then one of the problems is, "when do we remove the troops assign from party screen?". Player changed the filter, do we remove them? Player set the slider to zero, do we remove them? I'm not even going into AI problems with having 8 different mishmash formations.

Now one way to overcome that can be locking each formation's troop type from the get go and not letting the player change them. Formation I-II is Infantry, Formation III-IV is Ranged, Formation V-VI is Cavalry and Formation VII-VIII is Horse Archer and you can only assign a troop to a formation that is related to their equipment. But we didn't want to restrict the player to these pre selections.

All in all, assigning formations to normal troops in the party screen is conflicting with changes made in OoB that's why it's removed.


Now lords/companions are a different story. Since they're more fluid with their equipment and they're unique, they don't have to conform to the formation types. We can handle them in a different way. This doesn't have to be in the party screen, we can add a separate UI in the formation cards that you could use to put unassigned heroes in that formation as troops. We can save the assigned formation of the hero and not let them be affected from the sliders. I am, personally, not against this and would love to bring it up internally. That's why I asked for a suggestion post, here. If you feel the assignment of heroes to specific formation as troops, not just captains, would be a good addition feel free to leave a comment in that post.
This is bull**** and you broke the whole game because of sliders? seriously sir?
 
Not being able to assign troops and lords in the party screen is intended but the reasons are different.

Being able to assign troops to different formations would break the saved values and how the percentage sliders/filters work. If you could assign a horse archer to an infantry formation, you couldn't get him out of the infantry formation in current implementation of the OoB. Zeroing the Infantry slider in that formation would still keep the horse archer you put in there. OR we disregard the horse archer assigned there are, move him back to a horse archer formation when the slider value changes. Formations would be a mishmash of troops and it's not possible to represent that with sliders.

If we add all 4 troop type sliders to all of the cards then one of the problems is, "when do we remove the troops assign from party screen?". Player changed the filter, do we remove them? Player set the slider to zero, do we remove them? I'm not even going into AI problems with having 8 different mishmash formations.

Now one way to overcome that can be locking each formation's troop type from the get go and not letting the player change them. Formation I-II is Infantry, Formation III-IV is Ranged, Formation V-VI is Cavalry and Formation VII-VIII is Horse Archer and you can only assign a troop to a formation that is related to their equipment. But we didn't want to restrict the player to these pre selections.

All in all, assigning formations to normal troops in the party screen is conflicting with changes made in OoB that's why it's removed.
If not for the mod that one kind user here made, I was about to return this game when I realized I couldn't sort units myself. My only question is, do you even play your own game? You speak of not wanting to restrict the user and yet the OoB change severely restricts the user.

I'll even extend an olive branch: if OoB is necessary, why not have an option to switch between OoB and the old system? From one dev to another, I truly cannot understand the logic behind this one. And as a gamer, this is just sad. It's not enough that games seem to be getting worse, the literal features themselves are being removed.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
 
TW won´t go back to the old way and therefore won´t develope an extra version just for that.

The OOB could be good if it would be polished and "working", the problem is as always that TW introduces something barebones and take months to finish it.
 
They should just give us the option to assign specifc troops types to the formations via a dropdown list:

- Inf I
>> Legionarys

- Inf II
>> Sturgian Axeman

- Cav I
>> Catacraphs
>> Banner Knights

I know the list could be large but most players won´t use 10 different types of INF I guess.
 
When the OOB was added in 1.7, I didn't hate it, but it was clearly barebones and had major, major problems. I expected TW would continue to develop it and add more filters and granularity to allow us to better set up troop formations the way we wanted them.

Lo and behold I return to a game almost a year later, and literally not a single thing has changed. It's SLIGHTLY more stable, but it still inexplicably crashes when you assign the wrong unit type to the wrong numbered control group formation. No new filters. No added granularity.

In short. The OOB ****ing sucks. The old MnB system where you can manually assign units to the group you want is infinitely better. Even if it means giving up the captain feature.
 
Mild necroing, isn't it? Nevertheless the battle slider topic deserves constant discussion imo, it's my most hated BL feature. Pre-1.7 was much better, period.

Why should the captain feature not have worked with groups made from the partyscreen? If they would have simply made the old groups deployable in the pre-battle phase, as all the interested wanted, you could be able to assign the captains to them.

BTW they could have made also the groups from the partyscreen changeable before battle, so that you could for example divide them into several groups. The ability to totally change composition before battle was a solution to a non-existing problem which caused several other, and worse, problems.
 
I just started playing again since 1.65 and I can't believe one of the features I was most excited for is ruining the game for me.
It's absolutely impossible to keep my archer companions out of infantry formations, or sometimes even horse formations, even if all they have is a bow and ammo. With formations this broken I have little incentive to do anything besides mass horse archers or something equally dumb, because how can I strategize if the game won't give me control over my units?
Unbelievable that it's been like this since 1.7 and TW never cared to fix it. Coming back for 1.0 feels broken in so many new ways that it's depressing.
 
The formation of units is really annoying, and only the fact that archers cannot be separated from crossbowmen... And above all, the formation has to be said only at the beginning of battles. There should be an army tab in our clan menu where one can organize their armies freely. Putting or separating specific units either by race or type or whatever. And so then before the battle only make the small changes that are necessary. But hey… dreaming is free.
 
This system reminds me of ordering at the fast food driveway. No matter how I try to explain my order, I always get the mishmash.. with onions. 😞
 
Please can we have confirmation about us having the capability of having heroes/troops as bodyguards/individual card stack in battle? MRay? I don't believe I and many players have heard anything about this since? Thank you!!
 
Please can we have confirmation about us having the capability of having heroes/troops as bodyguards/individual card stack in battle? MRay? I don't believe I and many players have heard anything about this since? Thank you!!
Like @NPC99 said in another post, this has been added in 1.1.0.
 
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