[1.7.0] Impossible to separate infantry types now into different formations?

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Grisch

Recruit
The worst part is that it's also bugged. If you try to jigger it by having a 'swap' group that you put one guy in and then lock everything except the one you want to move him to, the goddamned thing re-arranges your freaking locked groups when you move the slider. It's maddening. I can't remember a system that has made me want to throw a brick through my new gaming monitor as badly as this 'feature'.
 

Racktoar

Recruit
I'd much rather edit my formations manually in party screen than have anything in pre-battle screen...The system that is now seems so unnecessarily complicated... Better to have manual formation editing in party screen, hands down.
 
I'd much rather edit my formations manually in party screen than have anything in pre-battle screen...The system that is now seems so unnecessarily complicated... Better to have manual formation editing in party screen, hands down.

Welcome to the world of hard coded console programming - everything is simple, lacks flexibility and does NOT work. But tarded 8 year olds can use a palm mash pad .. LOL
 

Racktoar

Recruit
Welcome to the world of hard coded console programming - everything is simple, lacks flexibility and does NOT work. But tarded 8 year olds can use a palm mash pad .. LOL
Unfortunately it's becoming the norm in the game dev industry. Focus on consoles, F PC players, despite the vast majority of their audience being on PC.
 

guiskj

Squire
Honestly, you have the code for how things were before. If the new slider system is so incompatible with allowing us to manually set the TYPE of unit (ranged, infantry, etc.), then please give us a game option like you did for the battle commands.

I'll take the exact combination of how the old system of manually assigning troop type WITH the ability to place my formations on the battlefield before the battle starts. Disable/remove the sliders if you choose the "legacy" game option, that's fine with me.

To me, if I am able to manually set which type each unit should be, what I am effectively doing is moving my units into different formations before the battle starts. Meaning I don't need those sliders, so TW can remove/disable them without me loosing any gameplay.

Just PLEASE let me assign my unit types myself an then place those formations on the battlefield!
 

tuuku

Recruit
Made an account just to post my 2cents... here i have my formations, formation I has all Cavalry with preference to ones with polearms and shields, but for NO REASON a single cavalry unit, that is completely identical to the most of the other units that are in Formation I, is instead in Formation III with the archers, he has no Bow, he literally has a polearm and shield, why would he not be in with the others in Formation I? Formation I has 64/65 melee cavalry units but for some reason says the slider is at 100% and thus cant have any more. Meanwhile the Formation III, the archer group, has 33/33 but in the top corner says 34 including the cavalry unit that does not belong there in any way shape or form... There is nothing i can do about it using this slider system.

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I can see that the new system offers some advantages (preplan and position your army) and the fact that you can add commanders, besides that it offers certain buffs depending on the traits, it also adds immersion to the game and is a very nice idea. However, at the current state it lacks player control. For example aside the heroes which I believe I you said that they are more fluid (so in the future we might be able to assign them to a group on their own), it is very difficult to assign a specific unit. For example, with the new system I can't distinct a Vlandian knight from a banner knight (I used to have a group of 30 banner knights always following me as my guard while now I have a 30 people random cavalry retinue). Maybe alongside the armored , shielded, polearms options we could also have a system like the one in multiplayer where you can choose the specific troop from that troop type (that way we can make the distinction between same trait units). I am a huge fan of the game but the new system, despite it's aforementioned advantages, has taken away a very important part of gameplay (unlimited control on your army and groups). I specifically made an account to address that, since I have less and less visited the game after 1.7. I also understand that I might be the minority and that in the end you will decide to keep the new system as it is right now (and that's okay too), but could you please tell me if my suggestion is doable and if a new mechanic where based on the traits you have chosen, would allow us to choose a specific troop from a certain range of the same troop type (for example the legionaries from the veteran infantrymen or the different types of cavalry such as regular cataphracts to elite cataphracts) is something feasible?
Thank you for advance for your time and assistance and feel free to contact me if I haven't expressed something correctly.

PS: I have also posted this on another thread but I am posting it here as well since that's a bigger thread and maybe because of that my question is more likely to be answered. (I am new and don't really knows how it works :xf-grin:).
 

MostBlunted

Sergeant Knight
Guess they´re are still working on improving it, there wasn´t much since the OOB was released. But as we all know stuff like this will take a long time, maybe around 4-5 months until it´s better.
 

IloveMBVet

Recruit
Not being able to assign troops and lords in the party screen is intended but the reasons are different.

Being able to assign troops to different formations would break the saved values and how the percentage sliders/filters work. If you could assign a horse archer to an infantry formation, you couldn't get him out of the infantry formation in current implementation of the OoB. Zeroing the Infantry slider in that formation would still keep the horse archer you put in there. OR we disregard the horse archer assigned there are, move him back to a horse archer formation when the slider value changes. Formations would be a mishmash of troops and it's not possible to represent that with sliders.

If we add all 4 troop type sliders to all of the cards then one of the problems is, "when do we remove the troops assign from party screen?". Player changed the filter, do we remove them? Player set the slider to zero, do we remove them? I'm not even going into AI problems with having 8 different mishmash formations.

Now one way to overcome that can be locking each formation's troop type from the get go and not letting the player change them. Formation I-II is Infantry, Formation III-IV is Ranged, Formation V-VI is Cavalry and Formation VII-VIII is Horse Archer and you can only assign a troop to a formation that is related to their equipment. But we didn't want to restrict the player to these pre selections.

All in all, assigning formations to normal troops in the party screen is conflicting with changes made in OoB that's why it's removed.


Now lords/companions are a different story. Since they're more fluid with their equipment and they're unique, they don't have to conform to the formation types. We can handle them in a different way. This doesn't have to be in the party screen, we can add a separate UI in the formation cards that you could use to put unassigned heroes in that formation as troops. We can save the assigned formation of the hero and not let them be affected from the sliders. I am, personally, not against this and would love to bring it up internally. That's why I asked for a suggestion post, here. If you feel the assignment of heroes to specific formation as troops, not just captains, would be a good addition feel free to leave a comment in that post.
Do we know if and when the implementation of the HERO FORMATION CARD you possibly suggested will be done and released into game? (So I can have heroes as bodyguards in battle again etc)
 

IloveMBVet

Recruit
P.S Just noted your link here for us like minded people to leave comment on etc, just be aware the vast majority who play this game arent on taleworlds forums , they have all been affected by this, I have tons of friends who were unhappy with this ( The party screen formation/troop assignment removal)
 
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CrazyElf

Sergeant
I understand the developers' intentions though, and it sounds like a great idea, just needs better implementation. In my opinion, the player still needs a way to assign troop types to a different formation. Keep the sliders, but also let the player assign troop types to a formation in the Party screen as before, just have formations start with the troops the player assigns, and if he uses the sliders then change the formations as it is now.

Yeah we really need a manually assignment option.

Companions I can want separate and certain special units may warrant their own group as well.

The current system can't do things like separate companions or other special units, if they have comparable equipment.
 

OpenYourMind

Recruit
WBWF&SNWVC
bruh even when setting shield preference for first formation if i create a second formation with no shield preference it puts shieldmen there wtf i cant even make a dedicated 2handed formation, let alone separe crosbowmen from archers or god forbid longbowmen from shortbowmen
 

Somnorila

Recruit
Guess they´re are still working on improving it, there wasn´t much since the OOB was released. But as we all know stuff like this will take a long time, maybe around 4-5 months until it´s better.
Maybe it will be better in time, maybe. But the fact that even "as a concept" how it's now has many core issues makes it look very bad and not really promising that will be better. Like the intention was not bad but the design of the system seems to be made without much perspective in mind, like somehow the people who imagined it had no imagination and kind of seems weird coming from a game development team.

If they absolutely couldn't made it any different then they didn't had to change anything at all as the old system was good enough even if that was pretty limiting too, but definitely way better than what we have now. Sure it's more fancy now but functionally way worse.
 

Wargsy

Recruit
Not being able to assign troops and lords in the party screen is intended but the reasons are different.

Being able to assign troops to different formations would break the saved values and how the percentage sliders/filters work. If you could assign a horse archer to an infantry formation, you couldn't get him out of the infantry formation in current implementation of the OoB. Zeroing the Infantry slider in that formation would still keep the horse archer you put in there. OR we disregard the horse archer assigned there are, move him back to a horse archer formation when the slider value changes. Formations would be a mishmash of troops and it's not possible to represent that with sliders.

If we add all 4 troop type sliders to all of the cards then one of the problems is, "when do we remove the troops assign from party screen?". Player changed the filter, do we remove them? Player set the slider to zero, do we remove them? I'm not even going into AI problems with having 8 different mishmash formations.

Now one way to overcome that can be locking each formation's troop type from the get go and not letting the player change them. Formation I-II is Infantry, Formation III-IV is Ranged, Formation V-VI is Cavalry and Formation VII-VIII is Horse Archer and you can only assign a troop to a formation that is related to their equipment. But we didn't want to restrict the player to these pre selections.

All in all, assigning formations to normal troops in the party screen is conflicting with changes made in OoB that's why it's removed.


Now lords/companions are a different story. Since they're more fluid with their equipment and they're unique, they don't have to conform to the formation types. We can handle them in a different way. This doesn't have to be in the party screen, we can add a separate UI in the formation cards that you could use to put unassigned heroes in that formation as troops. We can save the assigned formation of the hero and not let them be affected from the sliders. I am, personally, not against this and would love to bring it up internally. That's why I asked for a suggestion post, here. If you feel the assignment of heroes to specific formation as troops, not just captains, would be a good addition feel free to leave a comment in that post.
I must say, it's kind of become a bit more of a hassle to change the groups of troops.
Like example, I have Companions which are mounted, some melee some archers that I wish to assign into the proper group without making them "lead" that group, but automatically being assigned as "Mounted Melee" or "Mounted Archer" but I am unable to do so. At least I've not found the way to do it if it's possible, without assigning them as the Leader of said group, which sure it helps for 1 guy, but it doesn't help for the other mounted Companions I have.

Is this something that is being worked on or am I just blind and have not found the proper way to change it? I've tried Googling and also looking around myself ingame and playing around but I don't seem to find a way to change that.
 

Flesson19

Not a Cookie
Knight
Yes something TW can't do, and modders do it yet again. Now that's skills. Good work modding team yet again
 
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