[1.7.0] Battlesize & reinforcement issue

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I know that @CaptainFracas has one ... and a good one :smile:

Me, I don't like the reinforcement think from the beginning. I don't know why but it doesn't feel realistic.
Instead, I will make "battles" like "rounds" depending of the ratio and the capacity of your PC.
Between each "battle" you can leave the battle, negotiate with your opponent or attack again. It's that case, with the ratio updated, you go back to the order of battle system.

I don't know if it's really clear, I don't know if it's more realistic or not, I don't know if it's playable and enjoyable (maybe too much repetitive ? specially with very big armies and poor PC's config) but I do know that it's easy to implement and it's my idea so I like it :wink:
I think it would cut the battle immersion, I want to stay in. If you separate the battle with decisions, it is maybe gonna break the immersion of a battle. I love to stay in a battle for like 10-15 mins.

Reinforcements just need to be deployed behind your troops with respect to a minimal distance. Obviously, if you pushed your enemy and it brought you far from your spawn point, the reinforcements would also pop behind you at the same distance as the enemy. But for that, it implies that both armies (attackers and defenders) don't spawn at the border of a map. The distance the reinforcements spawn should be reasonable, I mean not too near and not too far.
 
I think it would cut the battle immersion, I want to stay in. If you separate the battle with decisions, it is maybe gonna break the immersion of a battle. I love to stay in a battle for like 10-15 mins.
Yep fair point :smile:
Reinforcements just need to be deployed behind your troops with respect to a minimal distance. Obviously, if you pushed your enemy and it brought you far from your spawn point, the reinforcements would also pop behind you at the same distance as the enemy. But for that, it implies that both armies (attackers and defenders) don't spawn at the border of a map. The distance the reinforcements spawn should be reasonable, I mean not too near and not too far.
Agree for the minimal distance but you still have the question of "where exactly ?"
Behind you at 100m ? Or on your left side at 250m on a hill with trees ? Etc ... who decide ?
And then, you also have the questions when and how many troops ?

The idea of @CaptainFracas if I understood it well, would be a command (like the "transfer" one for example) for the reinforcement, and during the battle you choose where, how many and which troops you call for help. You have a minimal time between each reinforcement call to respect the balance of armies involved.
Like I said, I think it's a good idea :grin:
 
Yep fair point :smile:

Agree for the minimal distance but you still have the question of "where exactly ?"
Behind you at 100m ? Or on your left side at 250m on a hill with trees ? Etc ... who decide ?
And then, you also have the questions when and how many troops ?

The idea of @CaptainFracas if I understood it well, would be a command (like the "transfer" one for example) for the reinforcement, and during the battle you choose where, how many and which troops you call for help. You have a minimal time between each reinforcement call to respect the balance of armies involved.
Like I said, I think it's a good idea :grin:
In the month to come I'm going to make a video and a thread about this issue and how to solve it ??

But yeah you the idea you said in short therms the idea I have ? there are many parameters to take in account to make such a feature but I'm at 100% sure that it would be the best one for the gameplay and for the balance of battles. ??
 
As a quick fix for now, I've tested this mod and we can increase the battlesize to 2000 with it ?
(The mod developer is my hero!)
 
I agree at 100%

During my live stream, yesterday I found out that Bannerlord's current reinforcement system in big battles (more then a 1000 troops) is broken and it is even more broken with the new order of battle system of the 1.7.0.
This, like troops using siege equipment appropriately, is something TW has to address - because as long as they don't larger battles are just fundamentally broken with tons of troops just magically popping out of no where.


The most sensible thing to me is to fight battles in stages. Whatever your battle size limit is that's how many troops you can deploy, and you fight the stage until there's a winner/loser. Then you go onto to the next round, etc. until one party/army is ultimately defeated. Yes with each stage the battle would be reset, but that's a small price to pay for not having troops spawn out of nowhere. Only real problem is with sieges really, but I mean if you can retain the map conditions (equipment destroyed, towers deployed, etc.) then honestly it's fine. A little immersion breaking, yes, but it's helluva lot better then magically spawning troops.

Even if you can't retain battle map conditions I'd rather essentially start over, then have enemy/friendly troops just magically pop into existence. I cannot tell you how frustrating is to be behind enemy walls, flanking the enemy by the gates, and oh 20 more enemy troops literally spawned in front of me and instant-kill me. This is why I don't show this game to anyone I know, because stuff like this is just so embarrassingly bad. I mean sieges basically reset whenever the player joins an ongoing one, so why is fighting the siege in stages such a cardinal sin?


Quite frankly the maps should have been built with an "out-of-bounds" safe spawn zone, where reinforcements spawn and then make their way into the battlefield. Granted yes clumping at the edge of the battlefield is a potential issue, but because this is a game, there's just unfortunately gotta be some limitations like that. Ideally you could have multiple spawn points to circumvent this.

All I know is something has to be done. I mean we already sort of have stages with Keep Battles now, and it use to be players would create archer only parties, start battle, get a few kills, retreat and just rinse and repeat. Dunno if that's been fixed (I don't have patience for that kind of cheese), but obviously it was a "feature" here at one point.


I guess it's a pick your poison of what's less immersion breaking, frankly to me nothing is as tacky as having NPCs that spawn right in front of you. Stages/rounds wouldn't be perfect, but they'd be a lot cleaner/neater. Also large historical battles were rarely decided in 5 minutes, they were almost always fought in stages. Like you would start off by skirmishing or maneuvering. Might attack a formation, back off, attack somewhere else etc. Yes there would probably be some moshing, but not the "mass of angry bees" this game is so prone to.

Might not be a bad idea to have a poll for preferences (granted probably been done before); do you prefer troops spawn in battle? do you prefer to fight battles in stages without spawns? neither?
 
As a quick fix for now, I've tested this mod and we can increase the battlesize to 2000 with it ?
(The mod developer is my hero!)
I had crashes with this mod, does it really work when you have cavaleries on the battlefield and on campaign mode ?
 
I had crashes with this mod, does it really work when you have cavaleries on the battlefield and on campaign mode ?
Use the 'Dynamic Battle Size' settings in that mod to help reduce crashes. There's basically no way you can increase it that much and not have crashes though. I don't even bother increasing it anymore, just use those settings to reduce idle horses and control the % of reinforcements that arrive at once.
 
I think they should remove the reinforcments system completely cause i don't see any possibility to make it usefull in game. First not all players can just extend battle size with mods cause their rigs won't handle it. With reinforcment system advantage is on the side of army that is closer to spawn point which makes using topography useless in most situations.

They should just split the battle into multiple stages that will happen until one side runs out of units fit to fight. Maybe even with some time passing on the map between this stages. Something like battles taking a couple of days to resolve.
 
I think they should remove the reinforcments system completely cause i don't see any possibility to make it usefull in game. First not all players can just extend battle size with mods cause their rigs won't handle it. With reinforcment system advantage is on the side of army that is closer to spawn point which makes using topography useless in most situations.

They should just split the battle into multiple stages that will happen until one side runs out of units fit to fight. Maybe even with some time passing on the map between this stages. Something like battles taking a couple of days to resolve.
I think this would be so much better.
 
I think they should remove the reinforcements system completely cause i don't see any possibility to make it useful in game. First not all players can just extend battle size with mods cause their rigs won't handle it. With reinforcement system advantage is on the side of army that is closer to spawn point which makes using topography useless in most situations.

They should just split the battle into multiple stages that will happen until one side runs out of units fit to fight. Maybe even with some time passing on the map between this stages. Something like battles taking a couple of days to resolve.
Yep totally agree (y)
 
As of now I'm running over 70 mods for 1.7.0
Battlesize mod is working even though it's not updated. I'm able to run 1400 troops battle for both sides with horses (less than 2048 with man and horses) . Sometime crashed if I fight huge battle with Khuzaits because they have more horses = more than 2048. So my safe number to fight with Khuzait is 1300 total for both sides with man and horses. I tested 2000 troops out both side w/ only infantry 1000 each.
my modlist pretty stable as of now.

My pictures of 1400 troops only my side. Battlesize mod is working for 1.7.0
I had "raise my banners" mod to hold the flags and changed config in "carrier" mod to let troops carry banners and sword (banners are the vertical flags) . Here are some pictures.

I also would like to know the tweak to get total troops over 2048. I'll try up to 4000
 
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Extending the battlesize is really good for those who have a computer able to manage it. But it's obviously not the most viable fix for reinforcements issue.
 
I'm running 75+ mods and Realistic Battle AI Module is the best of all. There are 5 separate mods that you could downloads.
This Realistic Battle AI mod fix reinforcement problems. I'm running siege battle for 4000 troops 2000+ each side . Due to the 2048 crash limit . I could only bring up around 700 each side and the rest reinforce up to another 2k . my battle last 20-35 minutes each. It's not Disney game. Troops are hard to kill. I can't just run in and swing my sword wildly.
 
Developers, get rid of this crap called "Battle Terrain System"! Battles constantly take place on the same boring maps, allied and enemy reinforcements appear in the most inappropriate places and at the wrong time! Is it really impossible to finalize all these degenerative innovations on the beta version before entering the main branch of the game?!
 
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