1.6 Patchnotes That Would Make Multiplayer Playable for More Than The ~100ish People That Still Play

[Zdzichu]

• Armor formula is being adjusted to provide increased effect vs ranged weaponry
• Horses will not take 2x damage from head-neck shots

I have flashbacks of previous patches...

1.57
Increased damage multiplier for ‘Bonus Damage to Shields’ effect on weapons (all axes and some 2-handed weapons).
Bonus Damage to Shields multiplier increased from 2x to 2.5x
Decreased health for all horses by 20.
Decreased armour for cavalry
Throwing Weapon Damages increased
Improved acceleration when running.
spears are much better but still ****
+ million javs

result - skirmishers op

earlier patches

Throwing weapons removed from heavy inf
Throwing Weapon Damages decreased
nerf for archers
useless spears

result - cav super op

Isn't it better to introduce buffs/nerfs gradually to avoid these situations?

 

[Greedalicious]

For shields, having the old equipment system would solve that issue.
Shields that cover your entire body: Expensive.
Shields that cover most of it: Less expensive
Small shields that barerly cover anything: Cheap.

That way the player has the option to pick what he/she feels is needed in any given fight. For mostly infantry fights, a smaller shield does the job just fine(mostly) while against throwers and archers, a wide shield that covers both head and feet is manditory. Player choice.

Just adding a force shield for shields isnt a good fix, because its not properly represented by the game. If you want shields to block more, make bigger shields, not just bigger hitboxes.

 

[KSHMR]

Looks like april fools have come early this year xD

 

[Aprikosenmann]

When you stab a horse that is moving towards you it should always rear. Idk why you put in a feature that horses can ignore low damage stabs in 1.5.6 or so.
The spear is useless against cav as long as this is in the game. Cav can move slow to avoid any risk.

 

[KSHMR]

Just want to point out that the way this discussion is basically how many topics end up here, it is mostly the result of the choice of class system. Example:
class 1 has access to OP weapon so remove it
class 2 has OP speed so change it
class 3 has OP horse speed to change it

Think about this: the effectiveness of throwing weapons. Throwing weapons are especially effective, and honestly lethal atm, against units with no shield or small shield. TaleWorlds have decided to create a class sytem that forces people to go with a certain shield according to the class to balance, yet exactly the opposite is the result. Why would you do this? Why would you limit players to go with a specific shield based on the class? You do realize that sometimes, when we are low on gold, we are forced to take a specific class that has a ****ty shield. The less freedom we have with selection of gear, the more impact overpowered weapons are going to have.

Give people the choice to select various shields depending on their wish. Doesn't have to be as expansive as in Warband, but at least 3 options would be nice. ****ty shield. Medium shield and Large strong shield.

 

[Yukmouth++]

We are making a series of changes which, in combination, will give the result we all want related to this issue.

• Throwing spears will replace default javs
• Throwing weapons won't have bonus damage to shields.
• Skirmishers melee capabilities will be slightly lowered. Weapons and Shield
• Armor formula is being adjusted to provide increased effect vs ranged weaponry
• Horses will not take 2x damage from head-neck shots
• Perk related buffs to Heavy Inf anti-cav capabilties to mitigate the above change
• Spear damage model changes to factor in speed difference instead of bouncing when in the middle of a thrust.

The plan is to disincentivize Skirmishers to give up their major weapon. Cav will also be more resistant to ranged weapons when armored and not die to a single jav to the face. On the other hand Heavy Inf will be much more effective vs cav and not get killed by throwing spam, yet throwing weapons will still keep their effectiveness against unarmored and unshielded troops. This way we don't have to keep lowering horse hp/armor and make them paper against everything.

there are many more changes coming this is just part of it, but putting it all together and testing obviously takes time so thank you all in advance for your patience.

Please increase all melee weapons effectiveness vs horses, not just spears. Remove glancing blows vs horses.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

When you stab a horse that is moving towards you it should always rear. Idk why you put in a feature that horses can ignore low damage stabs in 1.5.6 or so.
The spear is useless against cav as long as this is in the game. Cav can move slow to avoid any risk.

A dev said on discord they didn't want cav to get perma-reared - pretty silly considering they can simply turn or slow walk through through the stabs to get around this.

 

[hoonii]

• Armor formula is being adjusted to provide increased effect vs ranged weaponry
• Horses will not take 2x damage from head-neck shots
• Perk related buffs to Heavy Inf anti-cav capabilties to mitigate the above change
• Spear damage model changes to factor in speed difference instead of bouncing when in the middle of a thrust.

You're doing gods work <3

 

[AxiosXiphos]

A dev said on discord they didn't want cav to get perma-reared - pretty silly considering they can simply turn or slow walk through through the stabs to get around this.

Mechanical changes also apply to singleplayer/captains mode though - and no one wants to see a Vlandian bannerknight get reared by a looter with a spork.

This is clearly a complicated issue and just going black/white - always rear to forward damage is not the solution.

Having said that I think this is an excellent thread; I agree with the majority of the changes suggested here and I think AVRC has posted very competent and honest responses.

 

[Greedalicious]

Mechanical changes also apply to singleplayer/captains mode though - and no one wants to see a Vlandian bannerknight get reared by a looter with a spork.

This is clearly a complicated issue and just going black/white - always rear to forward damage is not the solution.

Having said that I think this is an excellent thread; I agree with the majority of the changes suggested here and I think AVRC has posted very competent and honest responses.

If the knight plays like an idiot and the looter is smart, thats exactly what should happen. Otherwise its not a skill based system. Cavalry can run in 3 directions where the looter isnt covering. If there are looters on all sides of the cavalry with pitchforks ready, first of all it'll take a while to kill him, and second the cavalry will have massively misplayed, and deserves to die for it.

I think the rearing works like this
Damage must be above x(i think 30?) damage
+
Horse must be moving a certain speed.

Its theoryetically not a bad system, but in practise it doesnt work very well.
Cavs are gonna be incredibly powerfull after this patch, as they lose the only counters they have. Light cavs will be favored because they can still do double W and S, and archers wont be doing as much damage to them anymore.

 

[AxiosXiphos]

If the knight plays like an idiot and the looter is smart, thats exactly what should happen. Otherwise its not a skill based system. Cavalry can run in 3 directions where the looter isnt covering. If there are looters on all sides of the cavalry with pitchforks ready, first of all it'll take a while to kill him, and second the cavalry will have massively misplayed, and deserves to die for it.

I think the rearing works like this
Damage must be above x(i think 30?) damage
+
Horse must be moving a certain speed.

Its theoryetically not a bad system, but in practise it doesnt work very well.
Cavs are gonna be incredibly powerfull after this patch, as they lose the only counters they have. Light cavs will be favored because they can still do double W and S, and archers wont be doing as much damage to them anymore.

Cavalry should be powerful against single hand weapons though - the issue IMPO is not the cavalry but their counters. In the grand rock-paper-scissors; Spears and Pikes should counter horses. However right now lances outrange spears, and spears are so mechanically awkward they just aren't a good counter.

Make spears and pikes better and they counter horse spam in both SP & MP.

 

[Greedalicious]

Cavalry should be powerful against single hand weapons though - the issue IMPO is not the cavalry but their counters. In the grand rock-paper-scissors; Spears and Pikes should counter horses. However right now lances outrange spears, and spears are so mechanically awkward they just aren't a good counter.

Make spears and pikes better and they counter horse spam in both SP & MP.

But single handed weapons dont stop horses anyway, nor should they. I dont think rock paper scissor gameplay should exist.
If they make spears outrange lances, infantries will just drop the spears for cavalry and the situation doesnt change, because its always more beneficial for a cavalry to have a better weapon than an infantry.

 

[KSHMR]

But single handed weapons dont stop horses anyway, nor should they. I dont think rock paper scissor gameplay should exist.
If they make spears outrange lances, infantries will just drop the spears for cavalry and the situation doesnt change, because its always more beneficial for a cavalry to have a better weapon than an infantry.

+1

This is not rock paper scissor, its far more complex than that.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

Mechanical changes also apply to singleplayer/captains mode though - and no one wants to see a Vlandian bannerknight get reared by a looter with a spork.

This is clearly a complicated issue and just going black/white - always rear to forward damage is not the solution.

Having said that I think this is an excellent thread; I agree with the majority of the changes suggested here and I think AVRC has posted very competent and honest responses.

I mean it was the case in Warband and cavalry were completely dominant in that, both in SP and MP. Cavalry in action is very different from the imagined "countered by spears" scenario people construct as very slightly changes in the battlefield give them lots of areas to exploit.

 

[matamor]

This way we don't have to keep lowering horse hp/armor and make them paper against everything.

Good news - nobody wants to play "Mount and Rage". Cav was almost cardboard right now, another nerf level down on cav to please crybabies and we were hitting the paper. I am not even talking about the slow rides speed as infantry when we pick a horse. This is wayyy too slow.

 

[drontrixsepta]

We want less memesticks. Not more.

the posts you see around the forums aren’t asking for them to be tweaked. The posts are asking for them to be point blank removed.

have to disagree with you, maybe in skirmish you guys dont like ashes and pilums but in other modes they are lovely af
maybe just remove nukesticks, or even a throwing weapons at all from skirmish mode? all i see on forum later is a crythreads about throwables exclusevly from skirmish mode, no need to nerf them to ground on all modes because of that i think

 

[TKnight]

i just want some coop mode , so i can play with my friends vs AI , (something like Full invasion mode)
my friends won't play multiplayer just because other people are wasting more then 1000+ hours and rotating like crazy while doing hits , which looks so dumb and 0 imersion.

 

[Roadpork]

lower turn cap will cause a narrower range of "a fair ping", how do we handle that side effect?

explain:

When you have a higher ping and your opponent making a sharp turn (it's a common move). His motion trajectory on your screen will be more exaggerated. It is harder to catch.
Back in the day, we had a higher turn cap, we turn our face to adjust that.
What if the guy's visual moving speed exceeds your turn cap? Then it will be: "S" key duel meta (its only visual, his actual location is different on the server)


Subtle combat design is cool, but how do we handle the network? I don't see it handling well right now.
Or... do we have a recommended highest ping? for example, 50?

 

[Gibby Jr]

have to disagree with you, maybe in skirmish you guys dont like ashes and pilums but in other modes they are lovely af
maybe just remove nukesticks, or even a throwing weapons at all from skirmish mode? all i see on forum later is a crythreads about throwables exclusevly from skirmish mode, no need to nerf them to ground on all modes because of that i think

ahh yes, saying they should be removed from skirmish is a crythread. TW are the ones who nerfed them in response to complaints about them, rather than just removing them from skirmish, and I worry that they’ll just nerf them again if they take further action. nerfing them repeatedly is not a solution, because it ruins them for other modes and eventually will decrease their value to the point that people just take a different perk and never use it. remove them from skirmish, where their impact is massive and gameplay for cav basically revolves entirely around them, and keep them in other modes.

 

[drontrixsepta]

ahh yes, saying they should be removed from skirmish is a crythread. TW are the ones who nerfed them in response to complaints about them, rather than just removing them from skirmish, and I worry that they’ll just nerf them again if they take further action. nerfing them repeatedly is not a solution, because it ruins them for other modes and eventually will decrease their value to the point that people just take a different perk and never use it. remove them from skirmish, where their impact is massive and gameplay for cav basically revolves entirely around them, and keep them in other modes.

Words of a man of a common sense, game needs different loadouts for each gamemode, and a poor captain is totally beaten in the corner with half of perks absolutely not working at all