• If you are reporting a bug, please head over to our Technical Support section for Bannerlord.
  • Please note that we've updated the Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord save file system which requires you to take certain steps in order for your save files to be compatible with e1.7.1 and any later updates. You can find the instructions here.

1.6 Patchnotes That Would Make Multiplayer Playable for More Than The ~100ish People That Still Play

Users who are viewing this thread

AVRC

MP Dev
Sergeant at Arms
I understand what youre trying to do, but I think a lot of people would rather skirmishers be a flexible medium inf with javelins more as a bonus than have them become a glass cannon thats all in on deleting a more expensive unit with a single mouse click before dying themselves because their actual melee was nerfed into the ground.
They shouldn't be deleting a more expensive troop with a click. They should have the a significant advantage vs Archers and Shock Troops, that is their spot, not nuking heavy inf or cav.

Have other plans for 'Medium Infantry'. Trying some stuff out.
 

Ruthven

Baron
WBM&BVC
They shouldn't be deleting a more expensive troop with a click. They should have the a significant advantage vs Archers and Shock Troops, that is their spot, not nuking heavy inf or cav.
I think that this works fine and is a good idea in Captain mode, but I don't think it will work in Skirmish.

Even with the nerfs to memesticks, it is very rare in this game that they ever leave play once they enter it. If both teams run 2 skirmishers and they both use all 3 lives - then by end of game there are enough throwing spears for every single player on the field. Reducing their effectiveness against armour might help change the incentives of their use, but with the extra life they get, what real disadvantage is there in running 3life skirmisher and giving a throwing spear to your cav? Even with the nerfs, speed bonus will make the damage significant enough to be worthwhile, unless they have been nerfed so hard they become useless and skirmishers are never chosen in comp matches ever again.

I really hope medium infantry is included soon. Heavy inf are too heavy to fill the inf role well in Skirmish mode. Light inf are too light to fill the inf role well in Skirmish mode. Maybe Bannerlord wants to avoid "jack of all trade" classes in general, but the current balance in my opinion is that both light+heavy cav/archers have versatile utility; Heavy inf and Light inf are extreme specialists. These changes as far as I can tell are pushing more towards extremes -- if this is to make way for medium inf to fill in the gap, then... right now there is a big empty gap
 

Rick_Slick

Banned
have to disagree with you, maybe in skirmish you guys dont like ashes and pilums but in other modes they are lovely af
maybe just remove nukesticks, or even a throwing weapons at all from skirmish mode? all i see on forum later is a crythreads about throwables exclusevly from skirmish mode, no need to nerf them to ground on all modes because of that i think
Noob mode should be given 0 consideration since it's boring and nobody plays it.
 

szymczak1503

Sergeant
I know you won't implement it but what about having a possibility to create your own custom class (e.g in the game menu), where you would be able to select class attributes, proficiencies, and perks from a pool of perks available for that specific faction. The choice of perks/proficiencies/perks will influence the cost of the class.
 

EbdanianAdmiral

Knight at Arms
They shouldn't be deleting a more expensive troop with a click.
What about their current stats suggest they shouldnt be? Lets crunch the numbers.

Every throwing spear has between 60 to 70ish pierce damage. Pierce damage ignores the most armor of any damage type.

Headshot multipliers are a big deal. They can be upwards of 1.5 to 2x damage. so that 60-70 damage is now 120-140 damage on headshots. All Heavy inf have 100 health, so we are well clearing that threshold of being deleted in a single click. Even with an absurdly large armor save of 50 or 60 damage, that heavy inf is still completely blackbarred and a single hit away from death.

Its worse on horseback. As you know, the game has modifiers in place to calculate damage based on relative movement speed. Running straight at someone who is running at you will yield damage numbers much higher than what is expected. This is a good mechanic in most cases, as it adds true weight to cavalry charges, and either punishes or rewards all in plays with insane damage dealt or taken. In the case of throwing spears, you can see upwards of 150 damage on bodyshots when running straight at someone and landing a direct blow on the body. With the headshot modifier added on this can and has easily surpass 300 damage. Heavy cav deleted. In the case of hitting the horse rather than the rider, even with the headshot modifier completely removed, 150 damage is still enough to absolutely 1 hit most of the horses in the game.

So that leaves the dev team with 3 options. They can either completely rewrite the games armor penetration, damage, speed, and headshot modifiers so that the ^^^^^ above is no longer how the game works, which will no doubt have consequences for every other weapon in the game.

They can nerf the Throwing Spears to like 45 damage, which would just result in a bunch of poles longer than the player characters are tall sticking out of everyone, looking absurd.

They can just replace the freaking things with regular javelins,
They should have the a significant advantage vs Archers and Shock Troops,
^^^^^ which have the same role that they want the throwing spears to fill, except less RNG dependent due to higher stack amounts which result in more consistent damage.

Some classes like the Wildling can even go back to how they were, with a default spear AND a default stack of 2 javelins. Letting them fill both roles of the throwing spear without all the stuff I listed above.

EDIT: I actually hopped on Bannerlord and checked the damage of throwing spears. 60-70 is too low. They actually have a default damage of 77-87 depending on the spear. So even more damage than what my post shows. So basically I accidentally proved that you could nerf the spears by 20 damage and they would still be broken.
 
Last edited:

BullRot

Recruit
Isn't it something to consider good cav player being still able to play and bad cav player having his horse killed??
In Captains Mode throwable was usefull strategy to hold and throw, many kills at start if shield was not in front... Destroyed by tweaks.
In Skirmish instead of rambo rush to player with throwables you should first make him deplete throwables, then rush to fight him, no?
It is called skills.
 

EbdanianAdmiral

Knight at Arms
Isn't it something to consider good cav player being still able to play and bad cav player having his horse killed??
In Captains Mode throwable was usefull strategy to hold and throw, many kills at start if shield was not in front... Destroyed by tweaks.
In Skirmish instead of rambo rush to player with throwables you should first make him deplete throwables, then rush to fight him, no?
The throwables having a wide aim reticule while the horse is moving kind of makes this pointless. You can play perfectly and still get screwed by RNG as the spear flies in a different direction than the guy was aiming and nails you anyway. Likewise, you can play the aggressor as well as you can, have perfect aim, and still completely miss due to the RNG. The melee cav gameplay is refined and consistently good enough that having an RNG you get deleted mechanic kind of ruins the experience.
 

Ruthven

Baron
WBM&BVC
Isn't it something to consider good cav player being still able to play and bad cav player having his horse killed??
In Captains Mode throwable was usefull strategy to hold and throw, many kills at start if shield was not in front... Destroyed by tweaks.
In Skirmish instead of rambo rush to player with throwables you should first make him deplete throwables, then rush to fight him, no?
It is called skills.
If skill is equal between players, who wins, the one that gets 80dmg for free, or the one that doesn't?

If there is a throwing spear that you can pick up, in what situation is it ever not beneficial to do so?
 

DeathBG

Sergeant at Arms
Isn't it something to consider good cav player being still able to play and bad cav player having his horse killed??
In Captains Mode throwable was usefull strategy to hold and throw, many kills at start if shield was not in front... Destroyed by tweaks.
In Skirmish instead of rambo rush to player with throwables you should first make him deplete throwables, then rush to fight him, no?
It is called skills.
They said there will be different perks for Captain so they will remain there don't worry.No need to nerf spear further it's okay now.
 

Ragratt

Squire
WB
I hope captain mode dies and gets removed. Captain was the excuse to keep the class system that nobody likes.
I like the class system and exclusively play captain mode, (and siege for 2-3 stable min at a time.). No reason players shouldnt be able to customize their gear and perks in DM or some custom server mode however.
 

Rick_Slick

Banned
I like the class system and exclusively play captain mode, (and siege for 2-3 stable min at a time.). No reason players shouldnt be able to customize their gear and perks in DM or some custom server mode however.
I don't see how posts about captain mode aren't considered off topic in the multiplayer forum. you barely ever get to fight another player in captain mode and you mostly just kill ai. It's online single player basically since captain mode teams usually never cooperate and there's no real sense of competition against real people.
 

EbdanianAdmiral

Knight at Arms
Its an irrelevant discussion since they have said they are finally splitting the perks up so that the gamemodes are operating under seperate parameters
 

Sigaretovic

Squire
Great thread. I would like to add that cavalry should be louder, so they can be heard a little before they actually hit you from behind.
 
honestly i liked everything AVRC said about in second post, even if half of these are coming to game this will make game much butter imo
 
Top Bottom