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1.6 Patchnotes That Would Make Multiplayer Playable for More Than The ~100ish People That Still Play

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EbdanianAdmiral

Knight at Arms
Mechanical changes also apply to singleplayer/captains mode though - and no one wants to see a Vlandian bannerknight get reared by a looter with a spork.
If the looter with a spork get a clean stab on the horses face then it should absolutely rear the vlandian Bannerknight.

That’s literally just how Spears work in Mount&Blade games.

This isn’t a total war game where we are all just stats and formulas whacking at each other. The entire point of the combat is to be skill based and not yoloing into a spear is a skill.
 

Einarcf

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
The looter example in real life would have been solved very easily. The looter drops his weapon and start running. If you had a bunch of inf armed with spears with no regard for this own life, sure, you could withstand a cav charge fairly good. You can kinda implement that with morale system in SP. This has no place in MP however, even in captain imo. So you are stuck with something unrealistic, I guess. But that does not matter as long as it is fair and fun, taking into account the gold cost of the units and the players skill level.
 

K M

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBVC
why stop at kangaroo jumps, wall running would be nice as well. :grin:

but i try to remain modest so i hope for a bit less random hitdetection.
 

EbdanianAdmiral

Knight at Arms
why stop at kangaroo jumps, wall running would be nice as well. :grin:

but i try to remain modest so i hope for a bit less random hitdetection.
The stuff in the video Jon posted isn’t even that crazy. It’s not like Warband jumps were that high.
 

jon01

Knight at Arms
why stop at kangaroo jumps, wall running would be nice as well. :grin:

but i try to remain modest so i hope for a bit less random hitdetection.
Bannerlord's jumping has been given that description too:

"while fighting you can leap like a kangaroo to escape"


Sometimes I feel like a slow-motion orangutan when jumping along in Bannerlord, especially when turning around. There's something quite floaty and unusual about its hangtime.

The physics remind me of a really old beta version of M&B:


Warband must have added a really good physics system. If TW cared to make a decent MP game this decade, they'd address the issue. But everything's about SP, in which bots don't jump at all. Although, you can still slide NPCs along the ground as if they're on ice just by walking into them. I get the idea of needing to push past units in a crowded battle, but shouldn't the NPCs in towns be given a different mass setting? Or is that something that would cause bad ramifications and crashes to the rest of the game?

The jumping in the Warband video seemed pretty tame to me, compared to other games. Wall jumping and bunny-hopping are a completely other matter. But it's still possible that something as simple as Warband-style jumping would feel out-of-place inside Bannerlord's overall gimped gameplay. It might need a serious overhaul if it were to be designed with functional, satisfying game mechanics in mind, like you'd expect from a sequel to Warband.
 

LANDALORE

Veteran
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
This floored me. It's harder to hit something in the head, and it should be rewarded. It's a feature you already built in, ffs.
I mean, without the actual numbers for all we know it could be anywhere from 1x damage to 1.99x damage. Wait til the patch.
 

BullRot

Recruit
SP, Skirmish and Captain should have separate stats and perks it seems from the beginnning.
I play mainly Captains Mode. Most annoying is how horses AI is bad.
Many complains about "rambo" style (1 horse in action, rest parked) get's justified. Good cav player can kill 2 units with 1 horse.
Players get upset that one player is playing for many minutes alone, while his cav is parked, cause AI useless.

Throwables are extremely useless making rush attack with 2-handed weapons viable, despite opponent is throwing axes/javs.
Imagine IRL getting an axe or javelin in the face while running.

Slow motion bug STILL UNFIXED making Formations obsolete (always getting slow motion after being killed).
Many units have now repetitive perks or classes obsolete.

If 2 units of Spear Infantry may get killed by solo playing 1 horse player something is obviously wrong with spear, not with the horse and getting head-neck damage removed in Captains Mode as well will just create silly situations.
3 cavs will make havoc to inf, will destroy them no matter the skills.
SHOW ME PLEASE real life situation where 20 Spear Infantry at the last flag cannot defend against 1 solo cav ramboing.

Remember that Skirmish is not the only mode where peoples play. Captains Mode is unique to M&B and most not playing Skirmish.
Also between September and January you just killed Captains Mode and many left the ship. Then it got better (at least playable again).
Not many mentions in upcoming patches to treat all players fairly enough.
 
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Roadpork

Veteran
But single handed weapons dont stop horses anyway, nor should they. I dont think rock paper scissor gameplay should exist.
If they make spears outrange lances, infantries will just drop the spears for cavalry and the situation doesnt change, because its always more beneficial for a cavalry to have a better weapon than an infantry.
Agree about rock paper scissor...
In the real world, paper can always hit the rock.

However, imagine a guy holding a paper, see your scissor, then run away. then you spend a whole afternoon to catch that guy, want to show him "see? I am paper! I won".

That is how "rock paper scissor" works in a game world.
 

tom54p

Knight
A part from spears not being able to stop cav consistently, isn't cav very strong also because of maps design?
I mean, when i think about It maps in warband had some places in which only archers and infantry had access to. While in bannerlord, cavs can just get anywhere if not contested, even inside the palisade on xauna.
Imo the only main problem map design gives to cavs is just avoiding all the useless things on the ground (for example in the middle of port at omor).

I Am not 100% sure how It would work on skirmish mode, but having this kinds of small areas where cavs can't access to, could potentially mean archers would have more time to shoot and infantry would serve the important purpose of pushing/defending them.
This would mean, less cav importance and theoretically less cav set-ups.
 

KSHMR

Sergeant at Arms
A part from spears not being able to stop cav consistently, isn't cav very strong also because of maps design?
I mean, when i think about It maps in warband had some places in which only archers and infantry had access to. While in bannerlord, cavs can just get anywhere if not contested, even inside the palisade on xauna.
Imo the only main problem map design gives to cavs is just avoiding all the useless things on the ground (for example in the middle of port at omor).

I Am not 100% sure how It would work on skirmish mode, but having this kinds of small areas where cavs can't access to, could potentially mean archers would have more time to shoot and infantry would serve the important purpose of pushing/defending them.
This would mean, less cav importance and theoretically less cav set-ups.
Question: is cav stronger because of map design?

Answer: Look at the town map where B has 8 possible entrances, each of which a cav can come from on ultra high speed (except 1 entrance, near the raised area). And the fact that cavalry in this game has higher top speeds than a racing car, it comes to no surprise it is so strong.
 

Younes

Master Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
Big open spaces is the reason why maps like Arena in warband were cavalry infested, but custom maps ensured there were spots infantry and archers were able to stay safe. In bannerlord there is a lack of those "space" spots. Even in arena the cav were close to dying when they spawned because they spawned with infantry inside of those little chambers where they can't move almost and had to make a run for it as soon as they spawned.
 

EbdanianAdmiral

Knight at Arms
It seems like the new changes are largely balancing themselves around the memesticks, when the entire thing could be a lot easier by just removing them.

Ask yourself which makes more sense.

  • Rebalancing the melee stats of Skirmisher, Wildling, Recruit and Brigand so they are less effective in melee and less OP in combination with the memesticks.
  • Completely reworking cav headshots so they no longer die in 1 hit to memesticks
  • Completely reworking the javelins of every skirmisher class so that the memesticks are the default option. (who is going to pick a different jav option when the memestick is default? nobody)
  • Completely rework every shield so that infantry are less memeable by the memesticks. (something they admittedly need to do anyway to help with bows)
  • Hope that all of these changes stop Inf from just dropping their memestick for cav and having literally nothing change (It wont) (Thats like saying making the Long Awlpike more powerful and default for Swadian Inf would have convinced them to stop dropping it for cav???? No??)
Or
  • Just replace the memesticks with either a regular spear or a stack of javelins depending on the class

Something else to consider with option one is that if the changes dont work like they are supposed to, memesticks are getting removed regardless. Except now there is an entire host of changes in the game specifically to balance certain classes around the use of memesticks...which are no longer in the game. So now you have horses that are immune to headshots and weaker skirmisher classes in melee for no reason.

It just seems like a lot of work to justify this one specific weapon.
 

AVRC

MP Dev
Sergeant at Arms
It seems like the new changes are largely balancing themselves around the memesticks, when the entire thing could be a lot easier by just removing them.

Ask yourself which makes more sense.

  • Rebalancing the melee stats of Skirmisher, Wildling, Recruit and Brigand so they are less effective in melee and less OP in combination with the memesticks.
  • Completely reworking cav headshots so they no longer die in 1 hit to memesticks
  • Completely reworking the javelins of every skirmisher class so that the memesticks are the default option. (who is going to pick a different jav option when the memestick is default? nobody)
  • Completely rework every shield so that infantry are less memeable by the memesticks. (something they admittedly need to do anyway to help with bows)
  • Hope that all of these changes stop Inf from just dropping their memestick for cav and having literally nothing change (It wont) (Thats like saying making the Long Awlpike more powerful and default for Swadian Inf would have convinced them to stop dropping it for cav???? No??)
Or
  • Just replace the memesticks with either a regular spear or a stack of javelins depending on the class

Something else to consider with option one is that if the changes dont work like they are supposed to, memesticks are getting removed regardless. Except now there is an entire host of changes in the game specifically to balance certain classes around the use of memesticks...which are no longer in the game. So now you have horses that are immune to headshots and weaker skirmisher classes in melee for no reason.

It just seems like a lot of work to justify this one specific weapon.
It is not just to go around one weapon, it has to do with how we want skirmishers to play overall and the interaction between all other troops.

Also throwing spears replacing default javs means when you pick the throwing spear perk you lose the default javelins. You don't have throwing spears by default. So you either have 6 regular javs, 3 upgraded javs or 1 throwing spear. Captain mode is unchanged.
 

hoonii

Knight
It is not just to go around one weapon, it has to do with how we want skirmishers to play overall and the interaction between all other troops.

Also throwing spears replacing default javs means when you pick the throwing spear perk you lose the default javelins. You don't have throwing spears by default. So you either have 6 regular javs, 3 upgraded javs or 1 throwing spear. Captain mode is unchanged.
Alright so the thing is everyone will pick throwing spears over anything.
Why struggle around with javelins that do 50 damage each hit to armored horses when you can just nuke them to oblivion with the nukespears and delete a 200/160 gold unit as a 110 gold unit.
Not mentioning you can hit your enemies with the throwing spear even without jumping when they're close, over their long shield, resulting in a 1 hit. I really don't think this change will be of help in relieving the meta.
 

EbdanianAdmiral

Knight at Arms
It is not just to go around one weapon, it has to do with how we want skirmishers to play overall and the interaction between all other troops.

Also throwing spears replacing default javs means when you pick the throwing spear perk you lose the default javelins. You don't have throwing spears by default. So you either have 6 regular javs, 3 upgraded javs or 1 throwing spear. Captain mode is unchanged.
I understand what youre trying to do, but I think a lot of people would rather skirmishers be a flexible medium inf with javelins more as a bonus than have them become a glass cannon thats all in on deleting a more expensive unit with a single mouse click before dying themselves because their actual melee was nerfed into the ground.
 
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