1.6 Patchnotes That Would Make Multiplayer Playable for More Than The ~100ish People That Still Play

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EbdanianAdmiral

EbdanianAdmiral

Knight at Arms
Old Guard
classic eb effortpost


Mount And Blade 2: Bannerlord Patch 1.6

Multiplayer
  • General
    • Fixes
      • Javelin duplication has been fixed
      • Updated wall collision will now lead to dismounted cavalry consistently landing against the wall rather than merging with the wall hitbox and becoming unhittable until they have stood up.
      • Through an act of godly premonition achieved by meditating on the issue for 18 months, we have figured out how stairs work. Units and horses will now be able to go up stairs by holding W without randomly getting caught on the floor texture. We actually just turned all of the stairs hitboxes into 45° ramps, but that sounds less cool.
      • Matchmaking servers will now correctly grab whoever is in queue and sort them onto teams based on MMR. Low population MM lobbies will no longer be stuck in 3v3 despite 4+ people sitting in queue waiting to join an active match.
    • Content
      • We have hired new map editors and sat them behind chairs. The pace of new maps for TDM, Siege, Skirmish and Captain will now exceed 1 to 2 new maps every 7 months. (The last skirmish map was added in August...Even worse, the last TDM Map was added in October)
      • The closed betas for Gamemodes that have been discussed since launch such as Duel and Battle will begin shortly. Signup here.
      • Added Badges for the winners of NABB1, BEAST1,2,3(?) and Captains League, as it makes no sense to have this elaborate badge system and then use it on 3 unique badges all for the same event.
      • Added new banners and colors for the clan system.
    • Balance
      • General
        • Throwing Spears and similar single entity stack projectiles have been removed from Multiplayer, as they clash with our teams vision of skill based combat, along with creating unfun combat scenarios and RNG dependent cavalry matchups. All instances of these perks have been replaced with a class equivalent perk depending on the role of the class.
        • The kicking hitbox has been adjusted so that taller character no longer have a distinct advantage over smaller characters. The kick will now be projected from a set spot that is consistent among all player models, and has been lowered slightly to allow more counterplay by means of jumping and dodging.
        • Fall damage has been tweaked so that the equivalent to jumping off the top of the slide as an 8 year old will no longer cause crippling damage to the player character.
        • Vertical jump height has been slightly tweaked in proportion to the class athletics skill. The change will be much more noticeable for classes such as shock troops with high athletics than lower athletics classes.
        • Melee turncap has been adjusted so that turning with a weapon readied is slightly slower, where as turning with a block or shield up is slightly faster. This will help infantry react to their surroundings defensively without creating an overly spammable or hitbox abuse dependent combat experience.
      • Cavalry
        • Analyzing the metadata of multiple tournaments, along with the feedback from the community, has created the undisputable conclusion that cavalry is overpowered in its intended role as a pick-power class. The below changes will attempt to provide counterplay to cavalrys exceptionable mobility and killing potential while still maintaining the enjoyment of the class.
        • The main source of cavalrys overall dominance has been their ability to get out of situations essentially for free despite making mistakes of the same caliber that would kill the other classes. As a result, we have decided that the best way to make high level cavalry play require better mechanical skill and actual thought would be to limit the ability of the class to escape situations where it should be punished. This will be accomplished by limiting the effectiveness of doubletap s and w by 50% or more, making it much harder for cavalry to instantly stop or instantly zoom off in situations where they should be taking damage. Additionally, certain perks were giving cavalry unparalleled mobility and were essentially straight upgrades to the other perks available rather than sidegrades. The Agile Horse perks have been replaced with actual sidegrades. These are the most important and impactful changes in the entire patch and should result in cavalry still being fun to play while finally being fun to play against.
      • Infantry
        • Increased the invisible hitbox on all shields while blocking in order to create a more fair matchup against archers and infantry throwing weapons. Without the invisible hitbox, many infantry classes have very little protection against projectiles and even certain melee swings, which led to an extremely unfun and inconsistent experience as certain classes. As a dev team we had rather players be overprotected than underprotected by shields, as getting hit when you feel like you shouldn't have creates a frustrating, inconsistent, and confusing player experience.
        • The light default shields have been returned to Skirmish, Siege and TDM shock infantry in order to make them playable in these modes. We honestly have no idea why we removed them in the first place.
      • Archery
        • Crossbows
          • Added a much more audible click sound when a crossbow is loaded, alerting nearby enemies even around corners.
          • Adjusted the animation timing of when the crossbow bolt is released in order to make point blank shots less viable and more risky.
        • Bows
          • In response to shields becoming better at blocking projectiles, certain bows have been made more accurate and less RNG dependent. This will drastically increase the skill ceiling of the class and make it more about hitting targets rather than kiting and shooting at extremely close range.
    • Captain Mode
      • We are paying Ling* $17 an hour to email us balance changes because it seems like he knows what hes talking about.
      • Because we are intelligent people who understand the basics of game design, Lings captain balance changes are completely separate from the balance changes to the pvp gamemodes. Trying to make both modes work with the exact same perks would be completely impossible and we would never do that.


If you disagree with absolutely any of this tell me why, especially if you are a dev.

I might do another patch notes post later that is faction specific and really break down the perks to see how we can make them better and more fun.
 
EbdanianAdmiral said:
classic eb effortpost


Mount And Blade 2: Bannerlord Patch 1.6

Multiplayer
  • General
    • Fixes
      • Javelin duplication has been fixed
        This will be kept as is for convenience, Will have other solutions regarding perks.
      • Updated wall collision will now lead to dismounted cavalry consistently landing against the wall rather than merging with the wall hitbox and becoming unhittable until they have stood up.
        For future...
      • Through an act of godly premonition achieved by meditating on the issue for 18 months, we have figured out how stairs work. Units and horses will now be able to go up stairs by holding W without randomly getting caught on the floor texture. We actually just turned all of the stairs hitboxes into 45° ramps, but that sounds less cool.
        Quite alot of them got changed, there was huge thread I remember. Feel free to tag me with pics or videos for remaining ones.
      • Matchmaking servers will now correctly grab whoever is in queue and sort them onto teams based on MMR. Low population MM lobbies will no longer be stuck in 3v3 despite 4+ people sitting in queue waiting to join an active match.
        That is already how matchmaker works. We can make the rules more strict but it would lead to more waiting times. Player MMRs are a bit all over the place at the moment due to people leaving matches early etc. We will do an MMR reset with Ranked Mode. We are planning some improvements to how 3v3 games start than fill up.
    • Content
      • We have hired new map editors and sat them behind chairs. The pace of new maps for TDM, Siege, Skirmish and Captain will now exceed 1 to 2 new maps every 7 months. (The last skirmish map was added in August...Even worse, the last TDM Map was added in October)
        We are consistently adding new maps in cycles, rate of approval of maps are not always the same
      • The closed betas for Gamemodes that have been discussed since launch such as Duel and Battle will begin shortly. Signup here.
        D        uel is almost ready to launch, Battle will take a bit more time. They will go on the Beta branch as they release, so technically Open Beta.
      • Added Badges for the winners of NABB1, BEAST1,2,3(?) and Captains League, as it makes no sense to have this elaborate badge system and then use it on 3 unique badges all for the same event.
        We have lots of plans for the future regarding badges and progression.
      • Added new banners and colors for the clan system.
    • Balance
      • General
        • Throwing Spears and similar single entity stack projectiles have been removed from Multiplayer, as they clash with our teams vision of skill based combat, along with creating unfun combat scenarios and RNG dependent cavalry matchups. All instances of these perks have been replaced with a class equivalent perk depending on the role of the class.
          We will make it so that the Skimirshers do not have the incentive to give up the throwing spear to their cav.
        • The kicking hitbox has been adjusted so that taller character no longer have a distinct advantage over smaller characters. The kick will now be projected from a set spot that is consistent among all player models, and has been lowered slightly to allow more counterplay by means of jumping and dodging.
          Nothing planned for this yet. Don't think this too much of an issue, taller character has more reach but has a bigger hitbox. Upcoming acceleration changes should help anticipate and avoid kicks without the need to jump over them.
        • Fall damage has been tweaked so that the equivalent to jumping off the top of the slide as an 8 year old will no longer cause crippling damage to the player character.
          This annoys me as well :grin:
        • Vertical jump height has been slightly tweaked in proportion to the class athletics skill. The change will be much more noticeable for classes such as shock troops with high athletics than lower athletics classes.
          Doesnt really add much, unless we introduce places in maps like only high jumping classes can get to etc...
        • Melee turncap has been adjusted so that turning with a weapon readied is slightly slower, where as turning with a block or shield up is slightly faster. This will help infantry react to their surroundings defensively without creating an overly spammable or hitbox abuse dependent combat experience.
          Turncap is getting lowered and turning into attack is also being adjusted. I don't have the full details atm. @NIN3 can provide more info maybe
      • Cavalry
        • Analyzing the metadata of multiple tournaments, along with the feedback from the community, has created the undisputable conclusion that cavalry is overpowered in its intended role as a pick-power class. The below changes will attempt to provide counterplay to cavalrys exceptionable mobility and killing potential while still maintaining the enjoyment of the class.
          We already accepted this fact.
        • The main source of cavalrys overall dominance has been their ability to get out of situations essentially for free despite making mistakes of the same caliber that would kill the other classes. As a result, we have decided that the best way to make high level cavalry play require better mechanical skill and actual thought would be to limit the ability of the class to escape situations where it should be punished. This will be accomplished by limiting the effectiveness of doubletap s and w by 50% or more, making it much harder for cavalry to instantly stop or instantly zoom off in situations where they should be taking damage. Additionally, certain perks were giving cavalry unparalleled mobility and were essentially straight upgrades to the other perks available rather than sidegrades. The Agile Horse perks have been replaced with actual sidegrades. These are the most important and impactful changes in the entire patch and should result in cavalry still being fun to play while finally being fun to play against.
          We agree with this. We are making horses take WWSS performance penalties depending on weigh/armor etc. So heavier horses speed up slower and slow down slower.
      • Infantry
        • Increased the invisible hitbox on all shields while blocking in order to create a more fair matchup against archers and infantry throwing weapons. Without the invisible hitbox, many infantry classes have very little protection against projectiles and even certain melee swings, which led to an extremely unfun and inconsistent experience as certain classes. As a dev team we had rather players be overprotected than underprotected by shields, as getting hit when you feel like you shouldn't have creates a frustrating, inconsistent, and confusing player experience.
          We have some new additions to perks that will help with this.
        • The light default shields have been returned to Skirmish, Siege and TDM shock infantry in order to make them playable in these modes. We honestly have no idea why we removed them in the first place.
          They are fine as they are for now, they are having other changes to compansate.
      • Archery
        • Crossbows
          • Added a much more audible click sound when a crossbow is loaded, alerting nearby enemies even around corners.
          • Adjusted the animation timing of when the crossbow bolt is released in order to make point blank shots less viable and more risky.
            Making pulling out crossbow slower and will have much more accuracy penalties, like initial increaed inaccuracy, moving, jumping and turning inaccuracies.
        • Bows
          • In response to shields becoming better at blocking projectiles, certain bows have been made more accurate and less RNG dependent. This will drastically increase the skill ceiling of the class and make it more about hitting targets rather than kiting and shooting at extremely close range.
            Stronger bows are already pretty accurate, as you describe faster bows plays different and are fine. With the speed buffs to infantry kiting shouldn't be much of an issue.
    • Captain Mode
      • We are paying Ling* $17 an hour to email us balance changes because it seems like he knows what hes talking about.
        @Ling* is great, I always value his feedback and listen what he has to say. Captain mode progress is sadly slower due to AI issues being very complex.
      • Because we are intelligent people who understand the basics of game design, Lings captain balance changes are completely separate from the balance changes to the pvp gamemodes. Trying to make both modes work with the exact same perks would be completely impossible and we would never do that.
        We starting to separate perks already. Stat related differences will take bit more time.


If you disagree with absolutely any of this tell me why, especially if you are a dev.
Hope this helps.
I might do another patch notes post later that is faction specific and really break down the perks to see how we can make them better and more fun.
Click to expand...
 
I was blown away but the changes then realized it was a “wish list” ? but glad to see devs have a lot or similar fixes in the works.

Turn cap is something I’d like to see lowered, interested how that will play out. I feel it’s mostly needed for two handed weapons, altho I have had a few one handed axe swing 180 hit me when coming directly behind an enemy lol

I still think a one shot throwing weapon should replace a shield if they stay in mp
 
Thanks for such a detailed response.

In relation to the stairs, the top layer of the stairs on Desert Outpost are still giving me trouble. It seems like you can be going up them fine until you catch a random bit of the terrain and it hitches and you get stuck running forward with nothing happening, especially on horseback.

Warband proved that having decent vertical jump height can be extremely useful for dealing with cav. I wish I had been saving gameplay of the last 5 years for a video to demonstrate.

I really like the change to heavy horses you mentioned.
 
@AVRC
We will make it so that the Skimirshers do not have the incentive to give up the throwing spear to their cav.
Click to expand...
I think it'll be good to not have cav using the nukesticks taking 50/50s against each other or getting free kills, but they will still be a problem in general. E.g. you want heavy inf to be viable by making their speed a bit higher, but I still don't see why anyone would spend the extra gold to take a heavy if they can still be one shot (or 90% damage, little difference) by a 3 life troop. The reward for the throwing spear/pilum is just too good. Kind of ties into the shield skill issue in OP and how easy it is to get around shields.

Turncap is getting lowered and turning into attack is also being adjusted. I don't have the full details atm. @NIN3 can provide more info maybe
Click to expand...
Glad to hear this and excited to give it a try.
 
Aprikosenmann said:
Or in other words: What heavy inf gets for 160 gold is a joke.
Skirmishers are not meta because they can oneshot heavy inf. They are meta because they can deal with cav and archers the best.
Click to expand...
You undervalue being able to delete a heavy inf for free, this snowballs into a won inf fight. It's similar to why cav are also OP, as they can delete/heavily damage an inf at the start of a fight as well.

High damage rules in this game and a large part of that is because of how you can remove inf from the board with it.
 
OurGloriousLeader said:
@AVRC

I think it'll be good to not have cav using the nukesticks taking 50/50s against each other or getting free kills, but they will still be a problem in general. E.g. you want heavy inf to be viable by making their speed a bit higher, but I still don't see why anyone would spend the extra gold to take a heavy if they can still be one shot (or 90% damage, little difference) by a 3 life troop. The reward for the throwing spear/pilum is just too good. Kind of ties into the shield skill issue in OP and how easy it is to get around shields.


Glad to hear this and excited to give it a try.
Click to expand...
We are making a series of changes which, in combination, will give the result we all want related to this issue.
  • Throwing spears will replace default javs
  • Throwing weapons won't have bonus damage to shields.
  • Skirmishers melee capabilities will be slightly lowered. Weapons and Shield
  • Armor formula is being adjusted to provide increased effect vs ranged weaponry
  • Horses will not take 2x damage from head-neck shots
  • Perk related buffs to Heavy Inf anti-cav capabilties to mitigate the above change
  • Spear damage model changes to factor in speed difference instead of bouncing when in the middle of a thrust.
The plan is to disincentivize Skirmishers to give up their major weapon. Cav will also be more resistant to ranged weapons when armored and not die to a single jav to the face. On the other hand Heavy Inf will be much more effective vs cav and not get killed by throwing spam, yet throwing weapons will still keep their effectiveness against unarmored and unshielded troops. This way we don't have to keep lowering horse hp/armor and make them paper against everything.

there are many more changes coming this is just part of it, but putting it all together and testing obviously takes time so thank you all in advance for your patience.
 
It's almost a month to 1st april right?
I wonder what possible buff can compensate these 2 changes coming together
  • Armor formula is being adjusted to provide increased effect vs ranged weaponry
  • Horses will not take 2x damage from head-neck shots
I hope you understand that all melee damage sources are unreliable against cav and will always be. You'r hitting the same problem as in 1.5.5, when there were no reliable damage sources to horses. Cavalry can always choose the most vulnerable target that can't protect itself cause it's almost impossible to cover all your teammates with spears\pilas. No matter what change will be made to heavy's spears, anyway cav will always dodge it, if only you are not fighting in specific places and whole your team is trying to play only agaist cav. The only erliable dds to cav were and will always be ranged units, primarily archers but it was mostly pilas in latest patches cause they countered archers as well (and they were less picked). These changes hit archers heavily since their main focus was only a cav. Now they became twice as bad as they were in their main job.

Anyway, I hope when next time you see a clear op class and you hear literally anyone say so, you will do straight nerfs with no compensating stuff like this cause you would always make buffs to overnerfed classes later.
 
If cav are going to be more durable again we should consider reducing their top speed which will be a decent nerf to their general play whilst still retaining a skill ceiling (good players will still find angles and surprise approaches).
 
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