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1.5 Spear Combat
- Thread starter Thralls
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It seems (imo) that the problem of instant damage has been somewhat mitigated. On the contrary, the problem of the spears getting stuck in the wall still persists (weird collision issue).
Long Spears are not as useful in Inf-to-Inf combat as the shorter Spears you got 1.4.3.
Chaoslian
Veteran
After some testing with a 2H spear, i can say, it got slightly better. At least somehow...
The stabs now feel way better than before. At least most of the times. Sometimes they are slower than other times. But that could also be the performance of the beta servers. Sometimes they seem a bit laggy.
Though stabs feel now much better, the core problems of the spear where not touched.
- You still glance to often. Bottom attack is mostly okay, but the top attack seems to need more range than the bottom attack, and is glancing therefore more often. So you have to rely on you bottom attack in cqc.
- Only 2 attack directions, making this weapon super easy to block. As soon as someone comes in, that is decent in blocking or brings a shield, your basically useless.
bracing is a nice to have, but i doubt, that this will help to get more people into spears. It only works with pikes ect, and nobody will run around with them, cause you can't really fight infantery with it. It doesn't help, that TD is the only mode where this could be slightly relevant. In siege, cav is not really important, in squirmish nobody will charge into a braced pike. I Never play captain, so i can't say much about there.
What i really don't like is the increased swingspead of the 2H weapons. Some of them are now so fast, that you can't stab between their hits, even if you parried the hit. 2H weapons were actually a target, you had good chances against. But with this swing speed and crushtrough...
I have to say, the menavilion feels great currently.
I still want swings on spears (2H). Make them a bit faster, and take away that absurd damage. If swings are not a problem for menavilion, why are they for spears?
The stabs now feel way better than before. At least most of the times. Sometimes they are slower than other times. But that could also be the performance of the beta servers. Sometimes they seem a bit laggy.
Though stabs feel now much better, the core problems of the spear where not touched.
- You still glance to often. Bottom attack is mostly okay, but the top attack seems to need more range than the bottom attack, and is glancing therefore more often. So you have to rely on you bottom attack in cqc.
- Only 2 attack directions, making this weapon super easy to block. As soon as someone comes in, that is decent in blocking or brings a shield, your basically useless.
bracing is a nice to have, but i doubt, that this will help to get more people into spears. It only works with pikes ect, and nobody will run around with them, cause you can't really fight infantery with it. It doesn't help, that TD is the only mode where this could be slightly relevant. In siege, cav is not really important, in squirmish nobody will charge into a braced pike. I Never play captain, so i can't say much about there.
What i really don't like is the increased swingspead of the 2H weapons. Some of them are now so fast, that you can't stab between their hits, even if you parried the hit. 2H weapons were actually a target, you had good chances against. But with this swing speed and crushtrough...
I have to say, the menavilion feels great currently.
I still want swings on spears (2H). Make them a bit faster, and take away that absurd damage. If swings are not a problem for menavilion, why are they for spears?
I agree wholeheartedly with Chaos. Spears feel better overall but feel less effective against 2h, primarily due to crushthrough. 2h Spears also need a swing animation that delivers mild blunt damage; this would primarily be useful as a mixup/stagger.
I also really don't understand why only lances (cav weapon) and pikes can be used to brace vs cavalry
I also really don't understand why only lances (cav weapon) and pikes can be used to brace vs cavalry
Thralls
Regular
Fully agree, very nicely put. I hope that over time spears will become more user-friendly. Also love the statement about the menavilion comparison. I would absolutely love it if you could swing spears.
Ernst31973
Recruit
Look at the 44~54 second part of this video.
I've been practicing combat with awl pikes recently, and it's quite useful if there's enough distance in melee combat.
Using Bashs to maintain the proper distance also makes 1vs1 difficult but possible enough.
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shield+spear is now bad for heavy infantry:
spears need a certain distance to make damage --> the only way to adjust the distance is running --> heavy inf runs slow --> it's hard to stab from a correct distance, so it delivers low damage on high-speed naked guys.
Suggestion:
For balancing and everybody's fun, Heavy infantry should shieldless and high damage, mainly cutting, it requires less distance control;
Light infantry should heavy shielded and some with spears or mace (thrust and blunt), it requires more distance control.
spears need a certain distance to make damage --> the only way to adjust the distance is running --> heavy inf runs slow --> it's hard to stab from a correct distance, so it delivers low damage on high-speed naked guys.
Suggestion:
For balancing and everybody's fun, Heavy infantry should shieldless and high damage, mainly cutting, it requires less distance control;
Light infantry should heavy shielded and some with spears or mace (thrust and blunt), it requires more distance control.
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Agreed here; the advantage spears should have on foot is just non-existent, and the thrusts are waaay to slow. I get exaggerating attacks a bit so that there is some room for signaling and body language over the network, but these are comical. Anyone who has ever been on the wrong end of a spear in any kind of martial art can tell you that they sure do not feel slow, and are a pain in the ass when you are trying to get inside of one with a stubby little sword.
