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Deviant

Recruit
WBVC
Some technical feedback from 1.5 on the state of Archers:

After playing some competitive matches in 1.5 in the Captains League over the weekend everyone has come to the conclusion the Archers have taken a massive step back for Captains mode.

The issues so far look to be:

1. Archer Accuracy - The accuracy has taken a massive hit with this patch - I will link a video of a comp game in the league between KW and LoV on Isles of Deriad - Battania v Battania; in the video at one point rangers standing in line formation with savages running directly at them, the issue looks to be the AI for archers and the new longer draw time, although I understand the changes should be mainly directly to the controlling player it doesn't look like it is, you can see the rangers not drawing back fully causing a huge hit to the accuracy, the archers aren't hitting many shot at all compared to before the patch, whether because of the reduced DPS caused by longer draw times isn't clear.

Look from about 16mins


2. DPS/AI not even shooting - even on the shorter quicker firing bows the DPS is significantly slower, this could be for a few reasons as far as we have seen;

a) some models are currently not even shooting causing DPS be be lowered naturally but this needs looking into.

b) a lot of the time and more so with this patch targeting has been a real issues for example: while archers are bunched they consistently shoot into the back of each others heads and sometimes standing next to each other happens also if someone runs at a particular angle.

3. Archer speed - With the shock speed buff Kiting has become almost impossible to do on foot, whether its the archer AI being confused by small hills on C point on Druimor and/or just refusing to fire at oncoming shock troops the effectiveness has been hugely reduced, the other issue that archers shooting while moving is alot worse this has basically taken a good portion of the tactical play away from clan v clan matches.

In conclusion the draw time for the AI desperately needs looking at, its fine to change the draw time for the player but AI not drawing fully and loosing an arrow before full draw is an issue.
 
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Ling*

Knight at Arms
+1 This is a big issue in captain mode. I suggest we roll-back the changes made to archers, skirmisher units, and 2-handed units to how they were in 1.4.3 and THEN work to balance them from there. The changes made in 1.5 were just too harsh on these already rarely-picked classes and 2-handed shock troops received a massive unnecesary buff to top it off.

I'll bet you can still win with archers if you try REALLY HARD, but the problem I have is the mode is not fun in its current state, and that has a lot to do with how many classes are viable to play. 1.4.3 archers for captain mode were actually in a good state of balance, I don't know why the decision was made to restrict the captain mode Ai to the same limitations as a skirmish player, it's beyond my comprehension.
 

dirtshrimp

Veteran
WBNWVC
Yes. That is post 1.5.
Before 1.5 they were playable still.
They were playable before 1.5, but not competitive. The only real exception was the khans guard and that was because they could double as shocks. Well timed cavalry charges basically negated any effect the archers have.
 

KSHMR

Sergeant at Arms
Archers in Captain mode are dog****. In Skirmish they are too, but not as much as in captain
 

Virtuosho

Recruit
So weird that TW nerfs Archers/Javs for no real reason, making the class / section of the game unplayable

And does nothing for menv infantry which are clearly too fast / too strong / menvop

Also the units going into loose fomration and stuck there if u get on a horse has ruined captain mode

TW don't seem to give a **** tho, i'm sure they'll nerf some other random thing next patch, and buff another thing already op

I just wish i knew how the **** they come up with their decisions, it's like they roll a dice and go "5, HORSES GET WINGS"
 

EbdanianAdmiral

Knight at Arms
So weird that TW nerfs Archers/Javs for no real reason, making the class / section of the game unplayable

And does nothing for menv infantry which are clearly too fast / too strong / menvop

Also the units going into loose fomration and stuck there if u get on a horse has ruined captain mode

TW don't seem to give a **** tho, i'm sure they'll nerf some other random thing next patch, and buff another thing already op

I just wish i knew how the **** they come up with their decisions, it's like they roll a dice and go "5, HORSES GET WINGS"
Have you considered that maybe you are just bad at using ranged weapons

Or are you admitting to being equal to a currently bugged AI that wasnt properly coded to deal with the new ranged mechanics because of a simple and fixable oversight.
 

Deviant

Recruit
WBVC
So weird that TW nerfs Archers/Javs for no real reason, making the class / section of the game unplayable

And does nothing for menv infantry which are clearly too fast / too strong / menvop

Also the units going into loose fomration and stuck there if u get on a horse has ruined captain mode

TW don't seem to give a **** tho, i'm sure they'll nerf some other random thing next patch, and buff another thing already op

I just wish i knew how the **** they come up with their decisions, it's like they roll a dice and go "5, HORSES GET WINGS"
Actually the nerf was due to skirmish, people would be able to shoot feet to easily and kick shoot which was kind of a cheese to beat the game mechanics, the cav nerf to couching too, most of the fixes are good like reducing block delay and more snappy combat, the cav changes arent so bad tbh, although i hate the cav rearing up hitting small rocks and being incap for like 5 mins.

The throwing mechanic needs work and the archer nerf for players is fine but has had some unforseen consequences for cap.

that being said i feel like this patch wasnt properly tested as it was only in beta for 3 or 4 days.
 

vfkaseke

Veteran
WB
Actually the nerf was due to skirmish, people would be able to shoot feet to easily and kick shoot which was kind of a cheese to beat the game mechanics, the cav nerf to couching too, most of the fixes are good like reducing block delay and more snappy combat, the cav changes arent so bad tbh, although i hate the cav rearing up hitting small rocks and being incap for like 5 mins.

The throwing mechanic needs work and the archer nerf for players is fine but has had some unforseen consequences for cap.

that being said i feel like this patch wasnt properly tested as it was only in beta for 3 or 4 days.
I feel it was definitely rushed out for gamescom. I agree with you that cav is in a good spot right now (disregarding the super stupid rear mechanic), but the state of archers is unacceptable, and I can't believe the update wasn't rolled back, because captain mode archers are almost unplayable due to faster inf and worse AI accuracy. Yet another class nerfed into the void from captain mode..
 

AVRC

MP Dev
Sergeant at Arms
@AVRC Can we please get some recognition on this issue?
We are already doing some improvements to Archers AI for Captains.
Also working on some new adjustments to make archery feel better and more varied when using different bows.
 

vfkaseke

Veteran
WB
We are already doing some improvements to Archers AI for Captains.
Also working on some new adjustments to make archery feel better and more varied when using different bows.
Thank you. It's been a bit frustrating not seeing anything back from the devs on the archer issue in regards to captain mode, since the AIs accuracy is almost game breaking
 

Deviant

Recruit
WBVC
We are already doing some improvements to Archers AI for Captains.
Also working on some new adjustments to make archery feel better and more varied when using different bows.
Thanks mate, ive got a ton of vids and some detailed analysis of some archer play we have done, might be good to get a bit of early play testing for some of us and give some feedback, i don't feel like Beta testing is enough at the moment as hardly anyone uses it (mostly just TDM testing) but the captain portion is never populated, i feel like some targeted feedback may be good, we are happy to assist in some 6v6 matches specifically on the test version to stress test the archers.
 
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