1.5 feedback from DM

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So I guess it's my time to post some feedback.

Kicks:

Current kicks feels good and balanced. Slow down on the animation, making the window to punish someone bigger was best nerf they could possibly get. They are still viable, but not blatantly overpowered. Tho slow down on the side movement makes it harder to escape them even after nerfs.

Throwables:

In 1.4.3 throwing weapons were to overpowered and they were shining the most on the battlefield. Nerf was needed, but I don't think nerf that big. Yes, right now throwing from close distance is most of the time one way ticket to respawn and thats probably how it should be, but nerfing the focus on accuracy momentum makes them unsatisfactory and unfun to play. What I think should happen instead is tremendous nerf to dmg, for example body hit from a jareed should be around 20 and a headshot around 40. Pilas and long throwing spears should still one hit on headshot. So I'd say revoke the accuracy nerf and actually nerf the dmg on them.

Archery:

Very similiar situation to throwing weapons, right now it's unsatisfactory and unfun to play. Instead of making it like this, what should happen instead is slow down of draw/reload animation. I am not an archer main by any mean, but every DM archer is dissapointed in how it is right now.

Movement speed and swing speed:

It's horrible right now. As the 1.4.3 was definitely to fast, then 1.5.0 is definitely to slow. This major slow down on both swings and movement speed turned any infantry vs infantry into a "who is gonna be first in the right side of opponent will get almost guaranteed double hit". You either spam from right or left side, and that's bassicly it. If you try moving to sides instead of straight walking into your enemy sides, you will end up spammed, cuz your enemy will walk into your left or right side. Both swings and movement need to be speed-up to the point of meeting in beetwen 1.4.3 speed and 1.5.0 speed. Keeping it like this makes the fight simply boring and repetetive.

Little combat compilation from 1.5:

Block delay:

It feels great right now. Not sure if it's beacuse of the slow down or actuall reducing the delay itself, but it's just good. Tho as shieldless duels feels good, the very shield vs shield fight seems very poor and boring as stated above. Game is not only about duels. If this block delay was like this in 1.4.3, then 1.5.0 combat rebalance wouldn't be needed.

Shields:

As shield hp nerf was needed, cuz in 1.4.3 shields were definitely to strong, then here empire and vlandia kite shields are way to inferior compared to light Battania/Sturgia ones. There is great disproportion between them and it needs to be fixed. What I suggest is making the Vlandia and Empire ones 140 hp instead of 120 hp.

Vlandia/Empire
unknown.png
Battania
unknown.png
Sturgia
unknown.png

2 handed weapons:

BROKEN.
Their current swing speed is way to superior compared to one hand with shields. Compare that with their movement speed which is also way to superior and bam, here we are slowly shaping the 2-handed meta on both skirmishes and competetive. What should happen? 2 handed weapons can't be faster than 1 handed ones. They either have to be same speed, or slower than 1 handed weapons. Right now it's almost pointess to play heavy-infantry, when you can do triple spawn second round as turbo fast/decent armor with a 2 hand of doom class. Also crushthrough need to go. Either remove it or limits it to 2 handed maces. If you want to keep it on everything, then you need to slow down 2 handed weapons significantly. Also beacuse of this change teamfights are way to fast, a random 2 hand running around dealing 70 dmg on hit. That's not how the teamfights should work, we are not in arcade game, it's a medieval high skill capped battlefield.

Video from DM vs RS teamfights on 1.5:

Teamfights are way to boring and fast on 1.5. It needs to be changed asap.

Cav:

Cavalry nerfs were definitely needed. Cav right now seems like a high-skill class, not a tank smashing through countless number of infantries. It's a very good change.

Good changes:
-kicks,
-block delay,
-cav.

-economy.
Bad changes
-throwables,
-archery,
-shields,
-movement and swing speed,
-2 handed weapons.


Summary:
After enough testing I can tell that meta is gonna shift into heavy 2 hand focused. There were some steps made in right direction, but overall 1.5 actually feels like an unstable cluster****. Seems like 1.4.3 was better patch. I guess we traded kick throws cancer for 2 hands abuse.

Forgot to mention. Clan system is best feature, but god fix the face problem, cuz game seems to render everyone as hairless goblins x).
 
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♛AXDER

Squire
WBNW
So I guess it's my time to post some feedback.

Kicks:

Current kicks feels good and balanced. Slow down on the animation, making the window to punish someone bigger was best nerf they could possibly get. They are still viable, but not blatantly overpowered. Tho slow down on the side movement makes it harder to escape them even after nerfs.

Throwables:

In 1.4.3 throwing weapons were to overpowered and they were shining the most on the battlefield. Nerf was needed, but I don't think nerf that big. Yes, right now throwing from close distance is most of the time one way ticket to respawn and thats probably how it should be, but nerfing the focus on accuracy momentum makes them unsatisfactory and unfun to play. What I think should happen instead is tremendous nerf to dmg, for example body hit from a jareed should be around 20 and a headshot around 40. Pilas and long throwing spears should still one hit on headshot. So I'd say revoke the accuracy nerf and actually nerf the dmg on them.

Archery:

Very similiar situation to throwing weapons, right now it's unsatisfactory and unfun to play. Instead of making it like this, what should happen instead is slow down of draw/reload animation. I am not an archer main by any mean, but every DM archer is dissapointed in how it is right now.

Movement speed and swing speed:

It's horrible right now. As the 1.4.3 was definitely to fast, then 1.5.0 is definitely to slow. This major slow down on both swings and movement speed turned any infantry vs infantry into a "who is gonna be first in the right side of opponent will get almost guaranteed double hit". You either spam from right or left side, and that's bassicly it. If you try moving to sides instead of straight walking into your enemy sides, you will end up spammed, cuz your enemy will walk into your left or right side. Both swings and movement need to be speed-up to the point of meeting in beetwen 1.4.3 speed and 1.5.0 speed. Keeping it like this makes the fight simply boring and repetetive.

Little combat compilation from 1.5:

Block delay:

It feels great right now. Not sure if it's beacuse of the slow down or actuall reducing the delay itself, but it's just good. Tho as shieldless duels feels good, the very shield vs shield fight seems very poor and boring as stated above. Game is not only about duels. If this block delay was like this in 1.4.3, then 1.5.0 combat rebalance wouldn't be needed.

Shields:

As shield hp was needed, cuz in 1.4.3 shields were definitely to strong, then here empire and vlandia kite shields are way to inferior compared to light Battania/Sturgia ones. There is great disproportion between them and it needs to be fixed. What I suggest is making the Vlandia and Empire ones 140 hp instead of 120 hp.

Vlandia/Empire
unknown.png
Battania
unknown.png
Sturgia
unknown.png

2 handed weapons:

BROKEN.
Their current swing speed is way to superior compared to one hand with shields. Compare that with their movement speed which is also way to superior and bam, here we are slowly shaping the 2-handed meta on both skirmishes and competetive. What should happen? 2 handed weapons can't be faster than 1 handed ones. They either have to be same speed, or slower than 1 handed weapons. Right now it's almost pointess to play heavy-infantry, when you can do triple spawn second round as turbo fast/decent armor with a 2 hand of doom class. Also crushthrough need to go. Either remove it or limits it to 2 handed maces. If you want to keep it on everything, then you need to slow down 2 handed weapons significantly. Also beacuse of this change teamfights are way to fast, a random 2 hand running around dealing 70 dmg on hit. That's not how the teamfights should work, we are not in arcade game, it's a medieval high skill capped battlefield.

Video from DM vs RS teamfights on 1.5:

Teamfights are way to boring and fast on 1.5. It needs to be changed asap.

Cav:

Cavalry nerfs were definitely needed. Cav right now seems like a high-skill class, not a tank smashing through countless number of infantries. It's a very good change.

Good changes:
-kicks,
-block delay,
-cav.

-economy.
Bad changes
-throwables,
-archery,
-shields,
-movement and swing speed,
-2 handed weapons.


Summary:
After enough testing I can tell that meta is gonna shift into heavy 2 hand focused. There were some steps made in right direction, but overall 1.5 actually feels like an unstable cluster****. Seems like 1.4.3 was better patch. I guess we traded kick throws cancer for 2 hands abuse.

Forgot to mention. Clan system is best feature, but god fix the face problem, cuz game seems to render everyone as hairless goblins x).
^ Pure right
 

Zettaiken

Recruit
Left/Right attack spams and berdiches(other 2 handed weapons too) faster than 1 handed swords, that's ridiculous and even for an arcade game it would be too annoying.

I strongly agree with all what is written here,
but my personal addition to that, which is also based on stats of factions from NABB and BEAST that Khuzait faction should get some changes cause in both of the stats that faction had less than 35% of WR and while playing solo instead of some matches that factions inf class are boring as hell which make it unpleasant to play.
 

RDP

Sergeant
Throwables may have been overnerfed slightly but archer nerf is almost spot on, its still very easy to shoot people since you barely have to account for arrow drop yet takes a little more skill and time now which may deter bad players from choosing archer for easy positive k/d's. Warband style archery is still the best i have ever played in any game.
 

Fietta

buıʇʇǝs uoıʇɔǝɹıp ʞɔɐʇʇɐ
Marquis
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
The movement is much better imo, it means people can't fling around players due to the high amount of acceleration. There's no floaty movement anymore, because of this new change, which was a large issue from the get-go. I do agree that swing speeds could be increased slightly.
 

WMorton

Sergeant
WBWF&SNW
Just some input:
1. I agree when it comes to crushthrough, it is a very unbalanced feature and takes away from skilled fighting in favor of spamming, so I say completely remove it from 2-handers
2. I think shields are fine for now, I agree that the 120hp shields should buff to 140hp
3. The increadibly fast left swing needs to be patched, its simply to fast and makes its opponent helpless, as you can see in the video, to a left attack spam
4. Block delay fix was needed and well received by myself and everyone in my clan, good job TW
5. The throwables and archery were pushed in the right direction, however I think the inaccuracy effects should be slightly reduced as it is just a bit too much rn and archery duels seem to depend on who can steady their aim the quickest or just get ridiculously lucky first
 

Fïshe

Recruit
Very accurate feedback, but I see things a little differently here:

2h weapons shouldn't need a swing speed slowdown. (This happened with the menavlion previously and it didn't solve the spamming problem). If you think about the extra power in the second hand and the amount of weight a 2h actually adds over a 1h, slowing it down makes little sense in most cases. I think instead, increase the readying time (mostly) and blocking time (slightly) of the 2h weapons to make them feel heavy. This will space out the number of swings per second, and reward planned and timed 2h'd game play, as well as make them easier to play against with 1handers and/or shields. Heavy objects, if anything, swing as fast and harder than light ones, it just takes more time to get them going.

Crush through also only make sense on top-heavy 2-handed weapons, like the voulge, large clubs, and the northern axe. None of the menavlions, glaives, or long swords should be able to crush through imo. Maybe if the person blocking the 2h attack is holding a wooden stick or shield, the chance increases. But I don't see crush through making sense on up-blocks from steel or iron items. Also, if the person parries the attack instead of static blocks, the chance should also be greatly reduced to reward timing. The idea being that parrying the attack does not present your weapon as the target (I'm holding my spear up! hit it!) and you are gaining the upper hand by moving the attacker's crushing weapon offline by surprise.
 

salad_fork

Squire
Removing block delay finally made 2hers viable which is a good thing but I wouldn't go as far to say they are as OP as Throwing/Cav was last patch, they still have very low armor and die in 1 or 2 hits from just about anything, they should be fine once crushthrough is removed. Movement speeds of all the Infantry need to be examined to make sure certain classes like Heavy Infantry are playable and strong and worth their cost still and no spam turning cheese happens to certain class matchups.
 

Nordwolf

Veteran
I agree with Fietta, movement feels much better now. The only reason movement feels slow for some right now is how slow the heavy infantry is, imo the shield effect on speed could be reduced slighty. Light/medium infantry is just as fast as before.

Spam can be easily counteracted with fast response swings. The reason it exists right now is earlier sweet spot damage, but with reduced block delay it shouldn't be a problem imo.

For throwing I kinda like the accuracy changes, you can still fairly reliably hit horses or big targets from close distance even at the start of animation and it's still very much viable. The only thing I don't like is the bump from close range with the throwing weapon, I like how it was before.

For archery I think the changes are just weird, I don't think they make archery less or more powerful but they certainly make it more tedious to play.

Cav changes are all great, can't find much issue here.

2H: I think it's still very much inferior in duels as it's still quite a bit easier to block. I like current 2h except for one thing: crushthrough. The classes who have it have the highest movement speed, high attack speed and crushthrough just doesn't fit well with it, shield classes basically have zero chance of escaping or evading a crushthrough hit from a maul-berserker or voulgier. I think without crushthrough it won't really topple shield infantry in general as Hairless seems to think.

Crushthrough weapons need to be slower, harder to rotate and give higher penalty to movement (eg. higher movement penalty from wielding a heavy weapon)
 

EbdanianAdmiral

Knight at Arms
Fix the current double hit glitch and movement is perfect. Movement and swing speeds probably should not be changed. Infantry finally have tools to be aggressive and not just get stuck in a block-swing-block-swing pattern. I agree that maces and axes are a little to slow atm.

The better infantry player finally has the chance to be the better and punish worse players, and it’s amazing.
 

sleepy dragon

Rebel without a clue
Count
WBWF&SNWVCM&B
The movement is much better imo, it means people can't fling around players due to the high amount of acceleration. There's no floaty movement anymore, because of this new change, which was a large issue from the get-go. I do agree that swing speeds could be increased slightly.
Actually agreeing with Fietta
 

HancockT35

Sergeant at Arms
WB
For archery I think the changes are just weird, I don't think they make archery less or more powerful but they certainly make it more tedious to play.
It doesn't feel to great as a Archer main, every single non Main of archer, That try's it says it feels bad and goes back to playing there Main role. I think some changes may need to happen cause atm the 2 second thing feels so weird
 

Yans

Sergeant at Arms
WBNW
Archery:

Very similiar situation to throwing weapons, right now it's unsatisfactory and unfun to play. Instead of making it like this, what should happen instead is slow down of draw/reload animation. I am not an archer main by any mean, but every DM archer is dissapointed in how it is right now.
+ In 1.4.3 and earlier patches its just a pain in the ass, when u are an archer in a game with strong opponents. There is no point in making archers even
more tedious to play

No fun at all.

It would be better to return old archers from 1.4.3 but just turn off Vertical Aim Correction
 
I totally agree with this accurate feedback. I just want to make a remark about Khuzaits being nerfed when it was way too obvious that they were in major disadvantage from beta until now. Also not to mention that this drastic meta change will make competitive games to be spammed with formations such as(6/0,5/1 or 4/2), meaning there will be no archers(because it feels way too weird to play them in 1.5).
 
Hairless what do you think about Cav counterplay. Can Infantry deal with cav, and punish mistakes now that the spear is buffed?

Also the reduced block delay just feels nice. However I felt like dueling is also more static and boring just as you describe shield 1v1. Since spam becomes such a huge threat 1/3 of each duel is double blocking and the other 2/3 are normal swings. But the meta might shift later...
 

Rangah

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
I agree on everything, except the ability to spam being a necessarily bad thing. The changes to initiative probably also play into this.

After most inf fights being just a hit-block-hit-block until someone makes a mistake or gets kicked, being able to catch out people with a double hit is quite satisfying if your footwork was good. It feels like you can punish other players bad movement or decisionmaking more. On some weapons though, spamming is too easy because their high speed. In this regard, I much prefer the flow of duels and inf combat in 1.5.0 to 1.4.3.
 
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