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1.5.7 and beyond
- Thread starter AVRC
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Because what they need to do is make the Infantry experience better, not worse. For months Infantry has been boring as **** and the number of players shows it. If players hate playing infantry, you lose 70 % of your playerbase literally. These jareeds may have been made to counter archers in captain mode, but they certainly make the infantry experience worse in PVP modes. I tried Skirmisher on the patch release in siege, had a score of 24-6 and at least half my kills were javelins on infantrymen in close combat. Havent had a KDR that good for a long time. It was so op i changed class because i felt like i was abusing something.
salad_fork
Squire
Did they already nerf horse armor + hp? I just tested out an inf spear vs armored horse, it takes 7 headshots with a spear to kill a static armored horse, if the horse even moves slightly the spear glances for 2-9 dmg.
We'll hit armored horses like we do with wooden sticks as long as they are actually armored. HP only nerfs low tier cavalry.
salad_fork
Squire
Yea the route the balancing is going is very confusing. AVRC said he doesn't want Skirmishers or Archers to be the counter to Cav, so Heavy Infantry is supposed to be the counter? This is confusing since spears are 100% useless against any competent Cav players and are too slow/ low dmg in general to counter them. So in the end the only counter to Cav is other Cav.
The combat improvements to the game has made combat overall better, but infantry is still the weakest class in the game in almost every way.
They have the lowest proficiencies in the game
They have the highest armor (usually) but since cavalry and archers can often one shot, and blunt weapons are available to basicallry everyone, armor doesnt matter that much.
They get spears but spears barerly counter cav, I'd argue it doesnt if the cav is aware.
They get shields but at this point, who doesnt.
Their melee weapons are nice but depending on the patch, melee kills arnt really relevant.
So how to fix this.
-Reduce the proficiency of one handed, two handed and arguably polearm skills for all classes besides heavy infantry.
This gives heavy infantry a better purpose than being a tank on the field just holding their shield up and staying alive.
- Increase the proficiency for infantry, more so to heavy infantry
To further increase their value
- Remove the easy access of blunt weapons.
Considering how incredibly powerfull it is, low tier infantry shouldnt really have access to it, neither should cav for that matter although it matters alot less for them since its incredibly slow.
Thanks for listening to my ted talk.
They have the lowest proficiencies in the game
They have the highest armor (usually) but since cavalry and archers can often one shot, and blunt weapons are available to basicallry everyone, armor doesnt matter that much.
They get spears but spears barerly counter cav, I'd argue it doesnt if the cav is aware.
They get shields but at this point, who doesnt.
Their melee weapons are nice but depending on the patch, melee kills arnt really relevant.
So how to fix this.
-Reduce the proficiency of one handed, two handed and arguably polearm skills for all classes besides heavy infantry.
This gives heavy infantry a better purpose than being a tank on the field just holding their shield up and staying alive.
- Increase the proficiency for infantry, more so to heavy infantry
To further increase their value
- Remove the easy access of blunt weapons.
Considering how incredibly powerfull it is, low tier infantry shouldnt really have access to it, neither should cav for that matter although it matters alot less for them since its incredibly slow.
Thanks for listening to my ted talk.
I didn't mean its not ok, please for the love of god stick to the ****ing point I said an accuracy nerf is needed I have nothing against getting a kill with 3 jereeds or **** if you hit all 3 then you earned that kill but when there is a skirmisher that keeps running away from the fights and hits you in the back is really annoying.
Imo skirmisher type should never have been introduced and instead replaced by medium type infantry like wildling kinda but their main point shouldn't have been throwing.
-Remove the ability of peasants mounting war horses and using a menav-glaive on top of it just fine. This ****s up tdm and siege as well.
-Imo just remove menavlion and heavy glaive from cav.
-Nerf mace damage?
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Counter archers? Lol. Skirmishers are, and always have been a useless class in captain mode, and increasing their throwables has done nothing to fix it. In the captain community people more or less hope that skirmishers could be brought up to be more of a control unit, that can actually harass and move around other unit types, and for example stop inf from going straight for the archers in fear of getting javs thrown at their backs among other uses.
They are absolutely hopeless still at ranged and close quarters combat in captain mode.
You are a funny man ? You do understand that just about every mode feels just as neglected?
Feel so sorry for you guys
I think we should develop a forum culture where people just state what gamemode they mean when talking about balance issues. I think we have a small but very dedicated set of players who only really experience competitive skirmish and for these a separate balance thread might be useful.
There's a ton of captain playerse who refuse to come to the forums, because it's filled with skirmish people who bully people for their choice of mode. Personally I enjoy captain and skirmish both, but a lot of times when I even mention captain someone comes to tell me how **** of a mode it is, and how it should be forgotten by the devs.
+1, I started off playing only captain but eventually I started playing skirmish to the point where I played more skirmish than captain. For those who don't play much captain you'd be amazed at how long it took the developers to fix some of the game breaking glitches in captain mode that skirmish never had to deal with.
There would not be any bullying if Taleworlds would listen and balance modes separately. Everytime they balance one thing, they imbalance other modes. This is beyond ridiculous and its creating animosity between the different modes communities. I enjoy every mode except TDM. But i do myself feel some animosity as well when i see a Captain player state something that would make 0 sense for other modes (such as saying that cavalry are perfectly fine) and its probably the same feeling for Captain players when they learn horses hp and armor when cavalry was actual trash in captain mode already. I blame Taleworlds for this competition between modes amongst players.
Cav is honestly probably the least "captain-like" class in the whole of captain mode. When people say captain mode is just like playing SP PvE, I think this probbaly only rings true for cavalry. Cavalry is useless as an AI unit, but as a single player you can park your cav AI somewhere safe and do so much damage to the enemy AI. It's at the same time the most OP and most underwhelming class in the mode.
That aside, I do understand what you mean. The captain community feels much the same when skirm balance changes completely break the mode (archery nerf when 1.5 launched completely broke the whole class). One of the funniest things is when crush through was introduced, and it completely broke both modes, skirmish and captain, and both sides kept pointing the finger at the other for asking this change. It was a time where you could take a full stack of shock units in captain and F1F3 while chilling in the spawn, and win 9/10 times. Anyway, point is, both communities have been asking for a separation of balance for a long time, and I feel like changes asked by the SP community is probably what pains both the most in the end. (Archers too OP in SP, shock units not worth taking in SP, cav underwhelming in SP....)
Which is why i blame Taleworlds for that. Since we dont want our beloved main modes to be butchered by changes that should've only affecting one particular other mode, we tend to become agressive towards each other. If every mode had its own unique brand of balancing completely independent from one another, this issue wouldnt exist at all since our dogs wouldnt be ****ting in each other's yards.
I've been advocating for this as well, there's far too much crosstalk otherwise.
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