[1.5.6) What are the most profitable workshops?

Users who are viewing this thread

ThorheimAP

Recruit
Akkalat for Wool Weavery
Zeonica for Brewery
Rhotae Brewery
Poros and Lycoaron Wool Weavery.

These have given me a steady 200+ gold after a while.
I havent tried Baltakhand for Wool Weaver... seems that wool weavery is a good payoff.

Some has really fallen out, Sibir used to be 200+ for tannery.
 

Yukmouth++

Squire
To be honest, I think that the economy system that TW is building is great ,complex and hard to master... I mean you have villages producing stuff, markets, caravans, workshoops, trading, etc everything interconnected, looks nice. But the bennefits you get from all this economic structure are reallly low and when you are short of money you just need to fight some big battles and problem resolved even you don't need the unbalanced smithing.

So why to put efforts in such complex economic model when the player is mostly going to ignore it as money source and just dosome fights to earn money when he needs? I mean, I understood that battles are the core of the game and should be rewarding of course but then why everything else?

Trading should be the main income in this game, not Smithing or Fighting. Fighting is about enhancing the power of your kingdom and Smithing is about crafting good weapons for yourself and your companions. Its just so inbalanced that out these 3, Trading is BY FAR the lowest income producer.
 

Old-Bull

Squire
Since I play Battania, I just open wool weavers in Khuzait cities. There are 2 benefits to that:

1. They're currently the most profitable workshop.
2. I don't lose them because Khuzait and Battania never go to war.

Caravans suck monkey balls in 1.5.6 though. They're a complete waste of money and time.
 
Last edited:

Userre

Recruit
Sometimes a player place 200 tier-5 elite troops to a castle garrison which has less prosperity. Then he want caravan or workshops to pay his daily wages somehow. When this does not happen and when he goes bankrupt he gets anger. However player should not stack 200 elite troops to a castle garrison or should not upgrade his troops if has no money enough also out of topic I accept castles should be more strategical fiefs because their economical benefits are already weak. They have no military or economical benefit currently. This is something we need to fix. If we make general game economy balanced and if we can offer player alternative solutions to his problems then there will be no need to increase caravan workshop profits, daily 200 average (workshop)- 300/400 average (caravan) will be reasonable.

I had to make a new account but I've been a fairly long time Warband player (just Warband but jeez that was 10 years ago so it's been a little while at least), in fact I'm amazed I don't already have a Taleworlds forum account. I might on an older email but I digress.

I just want to give you my perspective after playing around 100 hours on 1.5.6 in regards to income. Something about me, and I imagine other players like me, is that I love the end game fantasy. In Warband, one of the best parts was rolling around with an extremely well trained elite group of soldiers and just crushing stuff. And Warband didn't have a complex economy, fiefs payed really good money and you could set up a laughable number of workshops.

1.5.6 has been my best run in Bannerlord yet, and your balance work has been absolutely tremendous so far, I'm really loving it. But there is an issue with my end game fantasy.

Currently I'm running a sort of nuts clan. I have three parties on the map as a clan tier 5 king. I have a personal retinue of around ~210 fully or close to fully upgraded noble units. I realize this is absurdly expensive, but I would be more than willing to do whatever it takes to pay for this and everything else.

The problem is that I don't have too many options. I currently own two towns and a castle (with 8 villages total) with above average prosperity but growing. My villages also have insane hearths, some exceeding 1000. The issue is that the garrisons (consisting of very random troops, no nobles or anything) costs about as much as I get from the town. I would reduce the garrison size (which already isn't all that big), but my clan parties keep restocking it which isn't particularly helpful. I also have the maximum number of workshops (6) of which I tested many to get the best ones I could reasonable find in my kingdom, and 2 caravans in operation. With all of that said, I'm running -3000 to -5000 deficits a day. I feel like I'm doing the best I can (I can set up more caravans but even with 3 more caravans, my deficit would only budge by 20% at best) but I simply can't effectively balance my budget if I want to keep what I have. My only viable option is to just sell loot from parties and armies that I manage to beat until I collect enough money so that peacetime won't bankrupt me.

Now it seems your response would be that I shouldn't upgrade my units, that I should remove some of my clan parties, and that I should balance my army. While that's honestly a reasonable thing to say, it's just not how I like to play the game. I love being that end-game god with a massive party and maximum clan parties out on the map or in my army. In Warband, if you really wanted to go all out, you had to put in some investment into many many workshops, and it wasn't super easy (albeit probably not hard enough but the money investment was high). I love the complexity of the economy system in Bannerlord, but it doesn't feel like I can effectively utilize that complexity to my advantage by enough of a margin to satisfy my end game goal of being an absolute chonk lord on the battlefield. I know I could remove my clan parties, I could balance my army, I could reduce my garrisons (and hopefully they won't be continually restocked with my clan parties off the map) but that's just not what I want as an avid Mount & Blade player.

My first recommendation is to decrease the overall costs of garrisoned units. It makes a lot of sense that a unit that doesn't have to travel, that has free housing, and the potential to meet women, go to the bar, etc. would get lowered wages. Perhaps not 50%, but 30 or 33% reduced wages would go a long way (I know that a perk exists but I think it only applies to castles and it's only a 20% reduced wage and of course I have it). Furthermore, introducing more systems into the game that can reduce wage costs (high charm could potentially reduce wage costs, or high leadership can lead to perks that reduce wage costs in more ways). I know a few perks already exist, but they don't do enough to change the tides of my insane deficit.

This may also lead to increased garrisons for AI, which would be a good thing in my book. Castles and especially cities feel a bit too easy to take for me personally. It's a bit nuts that in one war, a faction of equal power can capture up to three cities in a single campaign (even when both factions aren't at war with anyone else). The comeback mechanics solve this in a lot of ways, but it's still a bit nuts. Territory should shift a bit slower in my humble opinion. Or if you didn't want that, you could just make garrison limits more relevant. Currently, the default garrison limits are so insanely high that the buildings don't feel rewarding at all. If my garrison limit increases from 400 to 450, that's great and all but I only have 150 people in there at the most. I don't think the militia applies to garrison limit, if it does you can correct me. But this is all a side point.

The only other recommendation I could give you is to think of new passive systems that can potentially increase revenue. Allowing workshops to artificially limit supply, or being able to coordinate your workshops and caravans to maximize the profit of goods produced would be really interesting. Reintroducing village buildings in a simpler way that could increase income as well as increase security and other things might be a good feature for the long term to implement eventually.

I don't think it should be easy to build an income system that could pay for what I have. In fact, I think it should require a lot of monetary investment and a lot of time. But it should be doable, so that I can play the game the way I want to.
 

皮w蛋

Sergeant
This should be done only after adding inventory to shops. So player can buy cheap input items and move them to inventory of shop. Shop first uses these items and if these are depleted then should buy from town marketplace. Otherwise increasing convertion amount will not end with higher daily profit in 60-70% cases.



Each caravan has about 0.5% daily being destroyed probability in average. So if we assume 10000 forum users built caravan till now 200-300 of them lost their caravans at first 5-10 days. (No enemy kingdom case)


The factories in the game have "Level" . I can see that they are all 1 now.

Maybe we can use "Level" to achieve that produce different quantities of final products with different quantities of raw materials?

For example:
Level 1 - 1 grain → 1 beer
Level 4 - 3 grains → 6 beers
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
My first recommendation is to decrease the overall costs of garrisoned units. It makes a lot of sense that a unit that doesn't have to travel, that has free housing, and the potential to meet women, go to the bar, etc. would get lowered wages. Perhaps not 50%, but 30 or 33% reduced wages would go a long way (I know that a perk exists but I think it only applies to castles and it's only a 20% reduced wage and of course I have it).

There are like eight perks that reduce garrison costs.

Steward 50 Drill Sergeant (5%)
Steward 75 Stiff Upper Lip (20% for castles)
Riding 225 Cavalry Tactics (mounted 50%)
Bow 150 Hunter Clan (15%)
Crossbow 100 Peasant Leader (ranged 20%)
One Handed 150 Military Tradition (5%)
Two Handed 125 Berserker (10%)
Polearms 175 Standard Bearer (20%)

I don't know why TW spread them literally all over the skills instead of concentrating them in Stewardship and Leadership.

At any rate, they could bump Drill Sergeant to 15% and Stiff Upper Lip to 40% and then castles would be desirable for something.
 

Userre

Recruit
There are like eight perks that reduce garrison costs.



I don't know why TW spread them literally all over the skills instead of concentrating them in Stewardship and Leadership.

At any rate, they could bump Drill Sergeant to 15% and Stiff Upper Lip to 40% and then castles would be desirable for something.

Yeah I'm aware of all of them, but it's not super reasonable to get all of those in one playthrough. However, I have all available reduction perks in one handed, steward, archery, and riding skills.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Yeah I'm aware of all of them, but it's not super reasonable to get all of those in one playthrough. However, I have all available reduction perks in one handed, steward, archery, and riding skills.

That's a 45% reduction, is it not?

Wait, do you have these on your character or a companion?
 

Userre

Recruit
That's a 45% reduction, is it not?

Wait, do you have these on your character or a companion?

I checked to see what my perks were just now.
I have Drill Sergeant, Cavalry Tactics, Hunter Clan, and Military Tradition.

This means I have a 25% decrease in garrison costs total, with an increased 50% decreased garrison cost of cavalry units (of which I don't have many in garrison honestly, as I never personally stocked my garrisons and my clanmates did, and until this new patch, as you might be aware, cavalry units were relatively rare amongst AI parties).

With that said, both fiefs typically have a garrison cost of around 1500 denars with a garrison number of 170 (this is when my clan parties seem to stop filling them). As I mentioned, the troops are pretty random, with an average troop tier of around 2.8. Both cities give me an average of 1500 denars (including the tariff but not including villages). So the cities themselves just about pay for the garrisons.

The castle perk wouldn't be of too much relevance to me simply because I only have one castle with a rather small garrison.

Fortunately, a lot of this conversation has become moot as the Castellan's Office has now been reworked in the new Beta branch to provide 10 - 20 - 30% reduction in garrison costs, which is quite helpful. Still, I believe I'll be running deficits but with the workshop bug fix as well, it should be more manageable at the very least.

Edit: I forgot that the Castellan's Office only exists in castles, and as a result, yeah I'm still slightly boned lol but all is well.
 
Last edited:

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
I checked to see what my perks were just now.
I have Drill Sergeant, Cavalry Tactics, Hunter Clan, and Military Tradition.

This means I have a 25% decrease in garrison costs total, with an increased 50% decreased garrison cost of cavalry units (of which I don't have many in garrison honestly, as I never personally stocked my garrisons and my clanmates did, and until this new patch, as you might be aware, cavalry units were relatively rare amongst AI parties).

Just FYI, none of those perks work for the player character, since the PC can't be a governor.
 

Marcquez

Veteran
I mainly seem to have issues with the smithy workshop in Rovalt, as it is not giving me anything.
Even though there is a village providing iron ore. Really don't get why that one is failing :smile:

Tops 50 gold, compared to the other that give met between 100 and 200. (1.5.7)
Most of the time 0 or below 10 even...
 

mexxico

Sergeant Knight
I had to make a new account but I've been a fairly long time Warband player (just Warband but jeez that was 10 years ago so it's been a little while at least), in fact I'm amazed I don't already have a Taleworlds forum account. I might on an older email but I digress.

I just want to give you my perspective after playing around 100 hours on 1.5.6 in regards to income. Something about me, and I imagine other players like me, is that I love the end game fantasy. In Warband, one of the best parts was rolling around with an extremely well trained elite group of soldiers and just crushing stuff. And Warband didn't have a complex economy, fiefs payed really good money and you could set up a laughable number of workshops.

1.5.6 has been my best run in Bannerlord yet, and your balance work has been absolutely tremendous so far, I'm really loving it. But there is an issue with my end game fantasy.

Currently I'm running a sort of nuts clan. I have three parties on the map as a clan tier 5 king. I have a personal retinue of around ~210 fully or close to fully upgraded noble units. I realize this is absurdly expensive, but I would be more than willing to do whatever it takes to pay for this and everything else.

The problem is that I don't have too many options. I currently own two towns and a castle (with 8 villages total) with above average prosperity but growing. My villages also have insane hearths, some exceeding 1000. The issue is that the garrisons (consisting of very random troops, no nobles or anything) costs about as much as I get from the town. I would reduce the garrison size (which already isn't all that big), but my clan parties keep restocking it which isn't particularly helpful. I also have the maximum number of workshops (6) of which I tested many to get the best ones I could reasonable find in my kingdom, and 2 caravans in operation. With all of that said, I'm running -3000 to -5000 deficits a day. I feel like I'm doing the best I can (I can set up more caravans but even with 3 more caravans, my deficit would only budge by 20% at best) but I simply can't effectively balance my budget if I want to keep what I have. My only viable option is to just sell loot from parties and armies that I manage to beat until I collect enough money so that peacetime won't bankrupt me.

Now it seems your response would be that I shouldn't upgrade my units, that I should remove some of my clan parties, and that I should balance my army. While that's honestly a reasonable thing to say, it's just not how I like to play the game. I love being that end-game god with a massive party and maximum clan parties out on the map or in my army. In Warband, if you really wanted to go all out, you had to put in some investment into many many workshops, and it wasn't super easy (albeit probably not hard enough but the money investment was high). I love the complexity of the economy system in Bannerlord, but it doesn't feel like I can effectively utilize that complexity to my advantage by enough of a margin to satisfy my end game goal of being an absolute chonk lord on the battlefield. I know I could remove my clan parties, I could balance my army, I could reduce my garrisons (and hopefully they won't be continually restocked with my clan parties off the map) but that's just not what I want as an avid Mount & Blade player.

My first recommendation is to decrease the overall costs of garrisoned units. It makes a lot of sense that a unit that doesn't have to travel, that has free housing, and the potential to meet women, go to the bar, etc. would get lowered wages. Perhaps not 50%, but 30 or 33% reduced wages would go a long way (I know that a perk exists but I think it only applies to castles and it's only a 20% reduced wage and of course I have it). Furthermore, introducing more systems into the game that can reduce wage costs (high charm could potentially reduce wage costs, or high leadership can lead to perks that reduce wage costs in more ways). I know a few perks already exist, but they don't do enough to change the tides of my insane deficit.

This may also lead to increased garrisons for AI, which would be a good thing in my book. Castles and especially cities feel a bit too easy to take for me personally. It's a bit nuts that in one war, a faction of equal power can capture up to three cities in a single campaign (even when both factions aren't at war with anyone else). The comeback mechanics solve this in a lot of ways, but it's still a bit nuts. Territory should shift a bit slower in my humble opinion. Or if you didn't want that, you could just make garrison limits more relevant. Currently, the default garrison limits are so insanely high that the buildings don't feel rewarding at all. If my garrison limit increases from 400 to 450, that's great and all but I only have 150 people in there at the most. I don't think the militia applies to garrison limit, if it does you can correct me. But this is all a side point.

The only other recommendation I could give you is to think of new passive systems that can potentially increase revenue. Allowing workshops to artificially limit supply, or being able to coordinate your workshops and caravans to maximize the profit of goods produced would be really interesting. Reintroducing village buildings in a simpler way that could increase income as well as increase security and other things might be a good feature for the long term to implement eventually.

I don't think it should be easy to build an income system that could pay for what I have. In fact, I think it should require a lot of monetary investment and a lot of time. But it should be doable, so that I can play the game the way I want to.

I read this days ago but can answer now. This was a great feedback by the way. Thanks for it. I think similar in most parts. Thats why Castellan Office is added (for reducing garrison wages) and needed Xp's are increased for tier ups. And I also want inventory for each workshop so player can buy cheap input items and stack to his workshop. Connecting caravan to this system can be a bit risky because then caravan cannot make profit. If workshops have an inventory they first use items there and if depleted it can buy from town.

Castles and towns are shifting hand easy and yes it should be a bit harder (current average is about 2 towns & 6 castles shifting hand per year). We can make it harder but it is a bit related to mission side too. Currently siege battles are like field battles, there is no defensive advantage at siege missions. We should fix it first. Then we can increase settlement advantage at siege map events. It will make shifting hands harder.

About garrison limits, I think same with you too.

I mainly seem to have issues with the smithy workshop in Rovalt, as it is not giving me anything.
Even though there is a village providing iron ore. Really don't get why that one is failing :smile:

Tops 50 gold, compared to the other that give met between 100 and 200. (1.5.7)
Most of the time 0 or below 10 even...

Some workshops can be less profitable than others. You can report them and I can examine what can be done. Please try them in different settlements before.
 
Last edited:

Dabos37

Sergeant Knight at Arms
I read this days ago but can answer now. This was a great feedback by the way. Thanks for it. I think similar in most parts. Thats why Castellan Office is added (for reducing garrison wages) and needed Xp's are increased for tier ups. And I also want inventory for each workshop so player can buy cheap input items and stack to his workshop. Workshop first use them and if depleted it can buy from town.

Castles are towns are shifting hand easy and yes it should be a bit harder. We can make it harder but it is a bit related to mission side too. Currently siege battles are like field battles, there is no defensive advantage at siege missions. We should fix it first. Then we can increase settlement advantage at siege map events.



Some workshops can be less profitable than others. You can report them and I can examine what can be done. Please try them in different settlements before.

Smiths have not been much profitable since a lot of time ago. In 1.5.5 I was also having pretty low income with them.

For the moment I have tried Tanneies and Wool Weaveries in 1.5.7 and I am getting 150-200 from them which is pretty nice, thanks.
 

Marcquez

Veteran
I think I know what is happening in Rovalt.
When I started the smithy, I bought over the existing one from Drusabalda the Ironmonger.
She immediately opened a new Smithy where before there was a pottery.
Something I noticed today, when I wanted to physically visit the workshop in the town view.

As there are 2 smithies competing, the profits are probably gone.

I have checked my oil press in Jaculan and this one remained at one.
Merovic the oil presser did not create another oil press workshop after I bought him out.

Did not try to set up a smithy elsewhere yet, though
 
Last edited:
I feel it would be better if workshops were generally really profitable (say ~500 dosh a day) but every month or two nag the players with problems that needs to be dealth with to keep the denari rolling. Stuff like a local gangleader demanding protection money, caravans carrying their goods or supplies getting hassled by bandits etc etc. A quest the player can solve by riding in and slapping fools with a sword, to restore the workshop to profitability. Something more interactive than just buying the workshop and then leaving it forever to give some gold a day.

One of the warband mods has a mechanic similiar to this but for fiefs.
 

Userre

Recruit
I read this days ago but can answer now. This was a great feedback by the way. Thanks for it. I think similar in most parts. Thats why Castellan Office is added (for reducing garrison wages) and needed Xp's are increased for tier ups. And I also want inventory for each workshop so player can buy cheap input items and stack to his workshop. Connecting caravan to this system can be a bit risky because then caravan cannot make profit. If workshops have an inventory they first use items there and if depleted it can buy from town.

Castles and towns are shifting hand easy and yes it should be a bit harder (current average is about 2 towns & 6 castles shifting hand per year). We can make it harder but it is a bit related to mission side too. Currently siege battles are like field battles, there is no defensive advantage at siege missions. We should fix it first. Then we can increase settlement advantage at siege map events. It will make shifting hands harder.

About garrison limits, I think same with you too.

Well honestly I really appreciate the response. I will say that with the new Castellan's Office, during peacetime I can throw most of my troops into a castle and it works out pretty well.

As well, with the bugfix to workshops, they're all making an average of 150-160 denars now, which is excellent. One issue I've noticed is that smithies don't tend to make a lot of money because even if iron ore is connected to a city via one of its villages, there never really seems to be a lot of iron ore available (even if the villager route is safe and the village has very high hearths). This might just be in my experience (I had one in Rovalt) though.

As well, the exp changes also made a large difference. It makes my units feel more vulnerable as they level up, and it's forcing me to cycle through units more quickly which is excellent.

All of these effects together means that my deficit with max parties on the map and all my units in my party is only around -1000 denars. All of my villages haven't been raided at all as well and they just don't stop growing hearths lol. A quick note on villages and construction as well: the passive construction that exists (the four options for housing, militia, village growth, and festivals) should receive a bonus when all possible buildings have been constructed. I have nothing else to make, so I might as well get a bonus to my passive construction. This could also apply to those rare times when nothing is currently queued to be constructed, in case the player forgets (or if AI somehow don't queue things but I think they always have stuff queued). An issue I've noticed that is kind of abusable is that after constructing everything, you can add money to the construction bonus pool and your passive construction will receive the bonus, but the money will never be used as nothing is actively being constructed. I'm unsure if this is intended but I wouldn't imagine it is.

Anyways, thanks for your response, it's amazing to actually be able to talk to a dev about this game, I have just so many hours in Warband and now Bannerlord and it's amazing to think that my opinions are actually being heard, that's always nice. Thanks for your time.
 

Userre

Recruit
Just FYI, none of those perks work for the player character, since the PC can't be a governor.
Yeah, I totally forgot about that, thank you so much for the update on that. Since then, I've done what I can, but governors don't level much (I think only quartermaster increases during governorship) and the perks that clan members have cannot be changed, and they are auto-selected before they join so sometimes you get good RNG and sometimes you don't lol.
 
It's more about what's close than what's best. After all, if any particular workshop was "best" then there would be no POINT in the others. I've had a silver mine make 50 and a leather shop make 250. It all depends on what resources are near by to your settlement. If you try to stick a silversmith and the nearest silver is half way across the map, it won't make any money because the inputs are too expensive.

I always try to build the workshops in cities with high prosperity and villages equivalent to the production of the workshop.
I fully understand what you are explaining to me.

I have read all the answers to the topic and I thank you for all the answers and to Mexxico. To know that there was a small bug that is fixed in there 1.5.7 reassures me on the revenues.

I agree with the fact that the workshops and caravans should not bring back mountains of money but I was really surprised in 1.5.6 :grin:

I'm just finishing downloading 1.5.7 and we'll see how it goes. :grin:

Thanks again to all the people and your answers. Have a nice day.
 

Gandamula

Sergeant at Arms
I still don't understand who buys the spoils of war, are they automatically removed from the cities when someone upgrades the troops?
 
Top Bottom