1.5.5 Balance and Further Changes

[AVRC]

@AVRC can you see the rates for clan wars? I think those would be very interesting too.

Knuzait isn't too bad in regular skirm as the archer can carry a bit but this becomes way harder in clan wars. 120g for the knuzait inf would be great I think.

No, since they have class limits.

Can you explain how are they to weak? 4 javs and a throwing spear on both wildling and brigand seems more than enough, 8 javs recruit also is very strong. Only Aserai skirmisher might not see enough play cuz the way Aserai is designed with 3 tribal spawns doesnn't leave much space for skirmisher to be usable.

Not by weaponry strictly but with the ability to catch up and punish archers. We will be doing some experimenting with moves and aim speeds.

What do you mean by this?

Baiting the archers to switch to melee
Getting all archery fire by standing in front with a shield
Baiting shield troops to break their shield wall
Baiting spear troops to put away their spears
etc...

 

[AVRC]

Would you be so kind as to clear up this doubt for me please?
I would like to understand this.
Is it going to be through the long acclaimed Weapon Change button or is it going to be an automated AI tuning where the player has no control?

AI makes the decision depending on who it is attacking.

 

[ParzivaI]

I believe the reason some factions are tanking on captain is because of the weapon balacing.. look at the battania savages for example, they have low armour but their 2h mace was fast so they could stand a chance against other 2h units but with this latest patch the 2h mace became so slow that they can be destroyed by every single unit.. even rabbles and peasants, there are other units that got similar nerfs that made them play worse.

If you balance some weapons for the skirmish make sure the A.I in captain actually plays with it... because what i am seeing right now is units standing there and not using their weapons as they should.

 

[AVRC]

I believe the reason some factions are tanking on captain is because of the weapon balacing.. look at the battania savages for example, they have low armour but their 2h mace was fast so they could stand a chance against other 2h units but with this latest patch the 2h mace became so slow that they can be destroyed by every single unit.. even rabbles and peasants, there are other units that got similar nerfs that made them play worse.

If you balance some weapons for the skirmish make sure the A.I in captain actually plays with it... because what i am seeing right now is units standing there and not using their weapons as they should.

As I said we are going over the analytics to make adjustments, if a perk is useless or ineffective we will change it.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

AI makes the decision depending on who it is attacking.

I see, thanks for the reply and sorry for the inconvenience.

 

[Aprikosenmann]

Damn those skirmish winrates look awesome. Looks like the BEAST Community is artificially ruining balance with the class limit.
But no class limit means cav spam + archer spam only. Is that how the game is supposed to be?

Also @AVRC now that we see that Aserai and Sturgia winrates are pretty off what keeps you away to do a QUICK HOTFIX to simply give aserai troops +1 spawn and sturgia troops -1 spawn? Captaign players would hate to see the next balancing only in 3 months

 

[KSHMR]

@AVRC Good post, thanks for the information!

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

• Adjusting swing speeds of melee weapons - Mainly slowing down maces slightly

Thanks for all the data.

When it comes to combat, are there any plans for more intricate changes e.g. not just altering weapon numbers and similar? Things like the actual animations, turnspeed, and combat timings have a big impact on balance but their impact aren't as easy to see in terms of data.

 

[Ikea Knight]

Whoops.
Wrong language.
I will collect the data for Skirmish in Beast# 3 and compare it with the data given here.
I certainly feel that some factions will have a worse winrate depending on the division.

 

[Aprikosenmann]

Ich denke ich werde mal die Daten aus Beast3 sammeln und gucken wie das Verhältnis im competetiven modus ist.

Mach dir keine Mühen Bruder, die habe ich schon.
Whoops wrong language.
Dont worry, be happy. I already collected those

 

[Einarcf]

We will see with NA tournament if BEAST limits skew with the game balance.

*Edit* I always thought limits were in place to promote 2 big melee combats, as the majority of clan players seems to enjoy it more than chasing, harassing, kiting each other.

The vision of the game mode might differ between TW and the BEAST community.

*Edit 2* But also important to note clan matches are between people who know, train, have voice chat with each other and are generally more skilled than random matchmaking matches. That could have big impact too.

 

[Horatius]

We will see with NA tournament if BEAST limits skew with the game balance.

*Edit* I always thought limits were in place to promote 2 big melee combats, as the majority of clan players seems to enjoy it more than chasing, harassing, kiting each other.

The vision of the game mode might differ between TW and the BEAST community.

*Edit 2* But also important to note clan matches are between people who know, train, have voice chat with each other and are generally more skilled than random matchmaking matches. That could have big impact too.

Yup that why I wanted too see the data as clan wars are people actually trying to win while regular skirmish is way more casual but apparently this isn't deemed interesting due to class limits.

 

[Ikea Knight]

Well
Uhm
We could host BEAST without class limits and see how balanced everything really is.

 

[dijiTurk]

I would like to see all things being worked on @next patch.

 

[Vattghern]

It seems we will have a lot of great things for captain mode soon. Can't wait, thanks.

 

[AVRC]

Thanks for all the data.

When it comes to combat, are there any plans for more intricate changes e.g. not just altering weapon numbers and similar? Things like the actual animations, turnspeed, and combat timings have a big impact on balance but their impact aren't as easy to see in terms of data.

We are testing some possible issues with spam and attacker block stun.

Well
Uhm
We could host BEAST without class limits and see how balanced everything really is.

Would love to see that.

I would like to see all things being worked on @next patch.

We share the same dreams.

 

[AVRC]

Damn those skirmish winrates look awesome. Looks like the BEAST Community is artificially ruining balance with the class limit.
But no class limit means cav spam + archer spam only. Is that how the game is supposed to be?

Also @AVRC now that we see that Aserai and Sturgia winrates are pretty off what keeps you away to do a QUICK HOTFIX to simply give aserai troops +1 spawn and sturgia troops -1 spawn? Captaign players would hate to see the next balancing only in 3 months

We are already working on the Captain Balance changes, that quick hotfix would probably not be the right one. We will make the changes as soon as possible.

 

[Vattghern]

Captain - Improving AI abuse situations. Would be really helpful if we can get videos of these to forward to programmers. @Ling* and anyone else who can help.

The most annoying abuse for me is rembo cavalry (the guy hides all his cavalry and jumps to destroy enemy archers or cavalry) This became especially true when the archers lost all their spears. Now if you are an archer and you are not covered by spearmen. You are most likely doomed, you will definitely not be able to conduct effective fire on enemy troops more reddened. Are you going to fix this and how?

 

[Ikea Knight]

Would love to see that.

I am all for it. The thing is we let the teams have a vote on the matter again.
Tournaments are events for the community so the admins have to sometimes let go of our personal wishes.
That said, I invite everybody to have a discussion on class limits in Beast / competetiv play.

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/beast-4-class-restriction-vote.437078/

But voting will still be reserved to team captains only.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

We are testing some possible issues with spam and attacker block stun.

In which direction e.g. making spam slower?