1.5.3 RIP Horse archers

[sammytobe]

I had not issues to deal with archers under AI command. My problem was related to my own archers decimating the enemy in now time and making the game not challenging at all (despite of just having 50 archers of a 150 army).

I think you have too many archers, plus when you have shock units running in front of shields they will get kills. I like having a lot of cav so with an army of 150 I would have 25 archers 75 inf, and 50 cav. You would want that amount too for sieges. So 1/3 of your army being archers is too many. But the main point is the dumb ai you play against. Just running in one group towards a single unit.

 

[Dabos37]

I think you have too many archers, plus when you have shock units running in front of shields they will get kills. I like having a lot of cav so with an army of 150 I would have 25 archers 75 inf, and 50 cav. You would want that amount too for sieges. So 1/3 of your army being archers is too many. But the main point is the dumb ai you play against. Just running in one group towards a single unit.

What? Who decides what is too many archers? I mean, even if I would have 100% archers armies, the game should continue being challenging (if not, it is know as an exploit). Archers were an autowin button before 1.5.3 and were ruining the game at least in my opinion and same for other player who also create some videos to complain about it.

Crossbowmen are the same than before (they have not been nerfed as far I know) and they are not nearly as broken/OP as archers were before 1.5.3, so it is not only an issue with AI sending unshielded units first (I find the current battlefield AI pretty decent to be honest). Funnily enough, even when archers are currently “bugged”, they are still stronger than Crossbowmen en SP, so you can think about how much broken and OP they were before.

 

[sammytobe]

What? Who decides what is too many archers? I mean, even if I would have 100% archers armies, the game should continue being challenging (if not, it is know as an exploit). Archers were an autowin button before 1.5.3 and were ruining the game at least in my opinion and same for other player who also create some videos to complain about it.

Crossbowmen are the same than before (they have not been nerfed as far I know) and they are not nearly as broken/OP as archers were before 1.5.3, so it is not only an issue with AI sending unshielded units first (I find the current battlefield AI pretty decent to be honest). Funnily enough, even when archers are currently “bugged”, they are still stronger than Crossbowmen en SP, so you can think about how much broken and OP they were before.

Okay did you even see my main point? The ai inf all run to you inf and if your archers are in another area they will get kills. How about you take less archers with you, there problem solved.

 

[sammytobe]

What? Who decides what is too many archers? I mean, even if I would have 100% archers armies, the game should continue being challenging (if not, it is know as an exploit). Archers were an autowin button before 1.5.3 and were ruining the game at least in my opinion and same for other player who also create some videos to complain about it.

Crossbowmen are the same than before (they have not been nerfed as far I know) and they are not nearly as broken/OP as archers were before 1.5.3, so it is not only an issue with AI sending unshielded units first (I find the current battlefield AI pretty decent to be honest). Funnily enough, even when archers are currently “bugged”, they are still stronger than Crossbowmen en SP, so you can think about how much broken and OP they were before.

Until they have shield ai or cav ai always break off from the group to attack your archers, it will always be like this please understand.

 

[sammytobe]

What? Who decides what is too many archers? I mean, even if I would have 100% archers armies, the game should continue being challenging (if not, it is know as an exploit). Archers were an autowin button before 1.5.3 and were ruining the game at least in my opinion and same for other player who also create some videos to complain about it.

Crossbowmen are the same than before (they have not been nerfed as far I know) and they are not nearly as broken/OP as archers were before 1.5.3, so it is not only an issue with AI sending unshielded units first (I find the current battlefield AI pretty decent to be honest). Funnily enough, even when archers are currently “bugged”, they are still stronger than Crossbowmen en SP, so you can think about how much broken and OP they were before.

You can't just nerf archers to accommodate stupid ai.

 

[Dabos37]

It is not “an stupid AI issue”, if it would be the case, Crossbowmen would also be as OP and broken as archers before 1.5.3, but it is not the case. AI has for sure some margin for improvements but archers needed a nerf and I hope that devs do not make them as OP as before and find a way to make everyone happy.

 

[sammytobe]

What? Who decides what is too many archers? I mean, even if I would have 100% archers armies, the game should continue being challenging (if not, it is know as an exploit). Archers were an autowin button before 1.5.3 and were ruining the game at least in my opinion and same for other player who also create some videos to complain about it.

Crossbowmen are the same than before (they have not been nerfed as far I know) and they are not nearly as broken/OP as archers were before 1.5.3, so it is not only an issue with AI sending unshielded units first (I find the current battlefield AI pretty decent to be honest). Funnily enough, even when archers are currently “bugged”, they are still stronger than Crossbowmen en SP, so you can think about how much broken and OP they were before.

I don't understand how you think the current ai on the battlefield is pretty decent when your archers are allowed to shoot at the ai inf blob, thats silly. I play mostly captains mode and when you have 6 humans controlling units of men you can actually see each units full potential and I'm telling you the archers are completely broken. A lot of people see it this way your actually the first person I've seen thats happy with outcome of archers.

 

[sammytobe]

It is not “an stupid AI issue”, if it would be the case, Crossbowmen would also be as OP and broken as archers before 1.5.3, but it is not the case. AI has for sure some margin for improvements but archers needed a nerf and I hope that devs do not make them as OP as before and find a way to make everyone happy.

You should try running archers in Captains mode. And like I said archers should be under constant pressure or threat. And in SP they are not.

 

[Dabos37]

You should try running archers in Captains mode. And like I said archers should be under constant pressure or threat. And in SP they are not.

Captain mode probably represents around 5% of the player base, so breaking other game modes just for it, does not look like a good idea.

I am not saying that Captain mode should be abandoned or it does not care, I just think that TW should balance game modes separately or just try to find something which works better for everyone. Maybe bringing back great accuracy for archers while reducing firing rate or a mix of some other buffs/nerfs.

 

[sammytobe]

Where do you find these stats are they available or are you just making them up? What are the exact numbers per mode? Please tell if you know.

 

[sammytobe]

Where do you find these stats are they available or are you just making them up? What are the exact numbers per mode? Please tell if you know.

What percentage of captains mode players play single player or skirmish, please be precise with the stats.

 

[vfkaseke]

Captain mode probably represents around 5% of the player base, so breaking other game modes just for it, does not look like a good idea.

I am not saying that Captain mode should be abandoned or it does not care, I just think that TW should balance game modes separately or just try to find something which works better for everyone. Maybe bringing back great accuracy for archers while reducing firing rate or a mix of some other buffs/nerfs.

You really don't seem to be getting the point that is constantly thrown at you. The problem is NOT that archers are OP, it's that the enemy AI is too stupid to counter them. Making the archer AI broken didn't fix the problem, it just replaced it with another one. Instead of making archers super weak, the developers should make the AI capable of dealing with them. If the problem was that the archers were super powerful, then by all means the enemy AI should be able to mow down your troops with theirs as well. This is not the case.

 

[Dabos37]

What percentage of captains mode players play single player or skirmish, please be precise with the stats.

Nah I was just speculating taking into account forum activity and players trying to find matches.

You really don't seem to be getting the point that is constantly thrown at you. The problem is NOT that archers are OP, it's that the enemy AI is too stupid to counter them. Making the archer AI broken didn't fix the problem, it just replaced it with another one. Instead of making archers super weak, the developers should make the AI capable of dealing with them. If the problem was that the archers were super powerful, then by all means the enemy AI should be able to mow down your troops with theirs as well. This is not the case.

Again, It is not related to the “stupid AI”, if it would be the case, crossbowmen would be OP because they have a good accuracy but they are not OP at all. I do not find the AI in battlefields as stupid as you say to be honest. They problem is that 50% or more of AI armies are composed by unshielded units (recruits, archers, unshielded infantry, etc) and there are not enough shields to keep everyone alive.

Plus there are shields which are pretty small and do not grant a great protection, so all these units were getting massacred by OP archers.

 

[vfkaseke]

Nah I was just speculating taking into account forum activity and players trying to find matches.




Again, It is not related to the “stupid AI”, if it would be the case, crossbowmen would be OP because they have a good accuracy but they are not OP at all. I do not find the AI in battlefields as stupid as you say to be honest. They problem is that 50% or more of AI armies are composed by unshielded units (recruits, archers, unshielded infantry, etc) and there are not enough shields to keep everyone alive.

Plus there are shields which are pretty small and do not grant a great protection, so all these units were getting massacred by OP archers.

Crossbowmen have always been weak in big battles. They only get consistent kills with headshots, and the reload time dumps their damage output so much, that they're basically useless unless defending walls. If you'd ever played captain, you'd have a better grasp at what units are actually good Seeing as how you rip your opinions out of your arse, I suspect that you haven't.

Armies having mostly unshielded units has to do with the AI as well btw. They're coded to have numbers instead of actual quality troops, so a lot of armies end up having a lot of peasant units with no shields. All your points are completely moot, and I have no idea what you're doing on the multiplayer forums anyway rambling on about SP aspects of the game.

 

[Dabos37]

Yes, I have not played captain and I am not interested to do it. I am just saying that archers were broken in SP before the nerf while Crossbowmen have been always balanced. I can show you how 50 archers were able to wreck 150-200 armies in no time without taking any lose while not any other kind of unit is able to do something similar.

I am in the Multiplayer forum talking about balancing, because the buff for archers which the guys who play captain mode are asking will harm a lot other game modes and I want to express my opinion. If TW would balance the game differently for each game mode, I would not have to be posting here.

 

[sammytobe]

Yes, I have not played captain and I am not interested to do it. I am just saying that archers were broken in SP before the nerf while Crossbowmen have been always balanced. I can show you how 50 archers were able to wreck 150-200 armies in no time without taking any lose while not any other kind of unit is able to do something similar.

I am in the Multiplayer forum talking about balancing, because the buff for archers which the guys who play captain mode are asking will harm a lot other game modes and I want to express my opinion. If TW would balance the game differently for each game mode, I would not have to be posting here.

Your archers will shred when they have stupid ai with no shields or small shields running at you. How about they adjust the tactics of the ai and not nerf archers. You could decrease the number of archers that are in your army if the ever make archers great again.

 

[vfkaseke]

Yes, I have not played captain and I am not interested to do it. I am just saying that archers were broken in SP before the nerf while Crossbowmen have been always balanced. I can show you how 50 archers were able to wreck 150-200 armies in no time without taking any lose while not any other kind of unit is able to do something similar.

I am in the Multiplayer forum talking about balancing, because the buff for archers which the guys who play captain mode are asking will harm a lot other game modes and I want to express my opinion. If TW would balance the game differently for each game mode, I would not have to be posting here.

And we're saying it's not because archers as units are OP, but because the AI is stupid, which is the truth. You can nerf the archers to all hell, but that isn't the right answer to the problem. You're not going anywhere with being a stubborn **** unable to listen to what others tell you. Learn to read, and come back.

 

[Dabos37]

And we're saying it's not because archers as units are OP, but because the AI is stupid, which is the truth. You can nerf the archers to all hell, but that isn't the right answer to the problem. You're not going anywhere with being a stubborn **** unable to listen to what others tell you. Learn to read, and come back.

Sorry but I think you are the one that should learn to read here. By design, there are about 50% of unshielded units in the game or more if you check troop trees, so it is usual to see armies with >50% of unshielded units if we take into account that by design, AI armies also have about 30% of recruits. All this means that even if the AI would be better, there are not enough shields to protect from proyectiles fire if the archers are so broken as before.

As I have said before, archers were about x3 more effective than Crossbowmen and I have no read any single thread about someone complaining about how weak crossbowmen are. So yes, I stand my point about archers were pretty much broken and insanely OP in SP before this nerf.

 

[hoonii]

Wow what's happening here...
Now this is a thread about MP only so this is not the place to talk about SP. Also seems like you guys wandered off of the topic a bit, please keep it to the horse archers mainly.

 

[Dabos37]

In the same way than multiplayer guys commented threads about giving buffs to cavalry in SP (cavalry was weak in SP while OP in MP) I am posting here to give my opinion because the game balancing affects all game modes. Anyway, this will be my last post here because I think that I have already expressed my opinion and I just hope that devs won't bring back this to the game (please do not do it):



Before someone blames the AI, here you can check the same battles with 50 Sharpshooters:



Anyway, sorry for the offtopic and talking about SP in MP forum but I am just concerned about multiplayer devs ruining the SP because some guys asking for bringing the OP archers again. I just hope that devs find a good solution for everyone and all players can enjoy all game modes.