1.1.4 workshops better, problematic

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Flesson19

Not a Cookie
Knight
I just started my testing and for the first time since 1.1.0 they appear to be back on track for making profit. However there is still an underlying issue, that is the buying price. The avg payout seems to be around 150-200 a day. Some can make 300-400 but that is rare unless your in a high prosperity town and much later in the game when they aren't really needed. People want to use them early to try and offset their wages but paying 25-35k for a shop that makes 150-200 a day is not the way to go. For those that say you shouldn't be millionaires as shop owners let's do the math. If you can make 250 a day for a year with 5 shops, that means you make 1,250 day and for the 84 days in a year you would make 105,000. I can make a million in a few days smithing, or a million in a couple hours fighting. So why is it outrageous to want shops to make a "little" bit more and cost a "little" bit less. With all that said I am satisfied with the money they make but the problem is the buying price. Taleworld doubled the buying price in I think in 1.0 because the new economy showed them to make amazing money early game but by the time you can afford a shop the economy is starting to stabilize and you will not make millions with them. There are still some shops that are really bad, and Sturgia is still awful, things I have asked to be fixed for over a year and nothing done. The biggest problem is the buying price. It needs to be reduced to make them more enticing to buy. With that 1 change I think they are worth investing into. So I ask once again @Duh_TaleWorlds @SadShogun why can't we get the buying price reduced back down to make them worth buying. I've mentioned this at least 6 times and nothing is done. No responses, no comments. Why will no dev even respond to a glaring issue brought up by someone who has tested shops since 1.5.7. I know what they make and when there is an issue, so I implore TW, please help shops. Lower the price back down first and foremost and then let's work on getting others fixed.
 
I find workshops and trade are good for renown via artisan community, or buying fiefs if you grind that far, and that's about it. Changing the price of workshops would not change a thing for me - I'm not against it but either way I'm getting trade to exactly 125 for renown from caravans or workshops, and then ignoring it. Like smithing the gameplay of it is too barebones and grindy and only really serves to get one resource faster(renown for trade, money for smithing) via tedious and formulaic methods, so it's a chore not an enjoyable element of the gameplay.

I think trade needs workshops and caravans to generate high reward optional side quests with noteworthy rewards. The other workshop and caravan owners have issues with bandits or rivals or political obstacles that you can resolve, yours should too. Imagine using charm or roguery to manage political obstacles, or of course more straightforward combat to deal with any bandits or other criminals involved.
 
How do you make a million in a few hours buy fighting ?. I normally buy works shops for income to cover my army then any extra money i get is profit. Takes me along time to make a million.
 
or buying fiefs if you grind that far
Tried trading once and got myself to, maybe, slightly above lvl 200. It was super boring, monotonous, anti-entertaining... in other words, it was anything but fun. I once asked people how do the get that far to level the trading stuff up to such heights, and, summing up the answers from various people on this forum - they all used horse exploit...
 
I think, for gameplay, the default pay out for a workshop should be such that the max amount of workshops at that clan level cover a mid level party of the size available to the player at that clan rank. Anything less serves no point and this also means at higher tiers you need to allow more workshops( then are currently allowed), maybe unlimited, to cover the growing cost parties. As is, you can completely ignore them and should completely ignore them because your wage needs will always require much more from other sources so just double down on the other sources.

It's sad, a lot of work when in to these simulations but they're completely unused by the actual game. The AI doesn't need/use any of it and the effect of the entire economic (hah hah) system is so minor that it never impacts the game at all because the AI starts with so much hidden money and has so many other cheats to simply ignore it and do the same behaviors no matter what circumstances the game worlds is in.
 
How do you make a million in a few hours buy fighting ?. I normally buy works shops for income to cover my army then any extra money i get is profit. Takes me along time to make a million.
Big fights = more loot, so when you're at kingdom stage and fighting army vs. army you can get loot worth hundreds of thousands. With roguery or that engineering perk that removes maluses I'd bet you can get a million from a single battle against a big/high tier enough army.

Basically money is a mid-game bottle neck to recruiting lords to your kingdom and/or suing for peace, otherwise your loot should generally cover the costs of your party and your clan parties, as long you're reasonably proactive about hunting down enemy lords or sieging.
 
How do you make a million in a few hours buy fighting ?. I normally buy works shops for income to cover my army then any extra money i get is profit. Takes me along time to make a million.
as a merc with high roguery, I can make around 10k a day off my merc contract then with 100 roguery your getting 25% more loot.
 
I just started my testing and for the first time since 1.1.0 they appear to be back on track for making profit. However there is still an underlying issue, that is the buying price. The avg payout seems to be around 150-200 a day. Some can make 300-400 but that is rare unless your in a high prosperity town and much later in the game when they aren't really needed. People want to use them early to try and offset their wages but paying 25-35k for a shop that makes 150-200 a day is not the way to go. For those that say you shouldn't be millionaires as shop owners let's do the math. If you can make 250 a day for a year with 5 shops, that means you make 1,250 day and for the 84 days in a year you would make 105,000. I can make a million in a few days smithing, or a million in a couple hours fighting. So why is it outrageous to want shops to make a "little" bit more and cost a "little" bit less. With all that said I am satisfied with the money they make but the problem is the buying price. Taleworld doubled the buying price in I think in 1.0 because the new economy showed them to make amazing money early game but by the time you can afford a shop the economy is starting to stabilize and you will not make millions with them. There are still some shops that are really bad, and Sturgia is still awful, things I have asked to be fixed for over a year and nothing done. The biggest problem is the buying price. It needs to be reduced to make them more enticing to buy. With that 1 change I think they are worth investing into. So I ask once again @Duh_TaleWorlds @SadShogun why can't we get the buying price reduced back down to make them worth buying. I've mentioned this at least 6 times and nothing is done. No responses, no comments. Why will no dev even respond to a glaring issue brought up by someone who has tested shops since 1.5.7. I know what they make and when there is an issue, so I implore TW, please help shops. Lower the price back down first and foremost and then let's work on getting others fixed.
+1

Perhaps a 15% price reduction would be a good start?
 
I would be happy with anything at this point instead of dead silence
Exactly. I mean, it was annoying early on with the fief/castle 'feature' and not being able to create your own - they addressed it as being too complex and that was the end of it.
Just tell us if it's bugged or complete - silence really shows their incompetence tackling the issue (or even understanding if it is one for them).
 
In my last campaign I had average net daily income of apx. 46k during the lordhunting phase. Against that, even taking some time off to go and set up a shop will cost you more in lost income than the actual shop itself.

The problem is that, down the road, you actually need those colossal incomes inorder to buy clans. So you have this one truely big ticket item that you need to contend with. It basically makes both other cost items, such as wages, and those auxiliar income sources like workshops inconsequential.

Bring down the cost of clans and then you might stand a chance at making a system where the various sources of income and costs could be balanced to each feel meaningful. Until then, workshops and the like will remain largely irrelevant.
 
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I believe Duh already mentioned this in another thread, but it would make sense for us to revisit the topic of "Workshop profitability" when the next "major" patch is out - due to the workshop changes coming with it.
 
In my last campaign I had average net daily income of apx. 46k during the lordhunting phase. Against that, even taking some time off to go and set up a shop will cost you more in lost income than the actual shop itself.

The problem is that, down the road, you actually need those colossal incomes inorder to buy clans. So you have this one truely big ticket item that you need to contend with. It basically makes both other cost items, such as wages, and those auxiliar income sources like workshops inconsequential.

Bring down the cost of clans and then you might stand a chance at making a system where the various sources of income and costs could be balanced to each feel meaningful. Until then, workshops and the like will remain largely irrelevant.

^ This.

I would say right now smithing and selling gear from battles are the only thing that keep up with costs of forming a kingdom. The disparity in income sources is extreme. Smithing is like 10x better than everything else, selling loot is like 10x better than anything else except smithing.

It's hard to even tell what's intended gameplay because of how out of whack many things in the economy are, smithing feels like cheating but then the only difference between smithing and not smithing is the latter requires tons of grinding of another sort by hunting lords for loot.
 
I believe Duh already mentioned this in another thread, but it would make sense for us to revisit the topic of "Workshop profitability" when the next "major" patch is out - due to the workshop changes coming with it.
When is the next "major" patch coming out? Its been radio silence on this for literally months....
 
Once it passes QA.
And when is that? We, the players have no idea what is going on and what is even in the current roadmap for Bannerlord. I don't understand why we don't have some sort of preliminary roadmap or action plan for the current process or whats in the future. We haven't received a Dev diary video update in almost a year and for the most part everything has been radio silence on what is going on. All we ask for is just any sort of communication between the players and the developers on the future state and current revisions being worked on.
 
And when is that? We, the players have no idea what is going on and what is even in the current roadmap for Bannerlord. I don't understand why we don't have some sort of preliminary roadmap or action plan for the current process or whats in the future. We haven't received a Dev diary video update in almost a year and for the most part everything has been radio silence on what is going on. All we ask for is just any sort of communication between the players and the developers on the future state and current revisions being worked on.
Depends on what issues are identified and how they can be solved. You do have the release plans which still have outstanding items on them. This is a bulk of what we are working on. The development update videos are reviews of recent patches, so they don't provide what you are describing. Still, we are working on one to follow the next content update.
 
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