1.04 - A Quick Look Into Snowballing

正在查看此主题的用户

Whilst its great to see TaleWorlds working hard on pushing decent updates to fix the issues with the current release of the game, I'm sure the thing 99% of us are interested in seeing is snowballing come to a halt...

In that regard, I have some bad news. Despite the attempts to limit it somewhat by changes made in update 1.2 and 1.4, I am actually seeing one of fastest Snowballs in my four characters in my latest save, created solely in this update.

70 days in, the Battanians have completely conquered, bar a single city and castle, the Western Empire. To be honest, I hadn't put much hope in the latest patches doing much to slow it down. Snowballing is a result of what I can only presume is dozens of contributing factors, balancing issues and currently missing features, and I imagine seriously limiting it through a soft approach, instead of hard limitation on the AI's ability to wage war, will require months of fine tweaking to existing gameplay, which doesn't even take into account future imbalances brought about by the introduction of hopefully loads of new features to the game as Early Access roles on...

I'm worried for Bannerlord. It has loads of potential, and for an early access game, nearly everything is there for it to be an incredibly fun experience which will allow the community and developers to work together to create a masterpiece... But snowballing will seriously limit that. Put simply, a Mount and Blade game, entirely based around long term play, is going to rapidly loose its tester base when a save lasts a year, maybe two, before one faction emerges as a hegemon, if not outright owner of all Calradia. Never mind the fact I imagine testing of late game features and more general stability, performance and such as years or even decades in game pass is going to simply be none existent, because few people will be playing saves more than one to three years...

I hate to say it, because its pretty crushing, but considering I imagine getting it truly balanced will be months of work... Right now I would prefer to see that heavy handed approach I was discussing earlier, hard limitations to AI warfare. Perhaps, unless you are a vassal for of a faction or have created your own kingdom and have several fiefs to your name, war between AI nations should be limited to the taking of a one or two fiefs before a peace of 50 - 100 days is imposed? I'm not sure how difficult such hard limitations to impose would be to code into the game, but I imagine it must be simpler then trying to somehow balance warfare and snowballing in its current form, even without considering the game is still missing basic features to prevent this like real diplomacy, such as alliances and coalitions.

I think at this point, most people who want to seriously dive into a single player game and truly have a great Mount and Blade experience in Bannerlord, would prefer heavy handed measures the likes of which we have put up with before in a slightly dressed up form (Cough 'Feasts' Cough), then continue to have games end after a year or two whilst TaleWorld tries to do what I imagine is going to be one of the hardest challenges developing this game presents, getting a balance between a totally static world and snowballing superpowers right.

ON A SIDE NOTE - Has anyone else noticed that since the initial, pre-patch release, the textures of clothing when in discussion with people, especially those you meet out in the campaign mode, now seems to load incredibly slowly? I'm not sure if I was simply totally blind when I first played the game (I doubt it as its blaringly obvious), but for some reason now I can be talking to someone and it can take up to 30 seconds before the game seems to load clothing textures outside of just these blurred colours.
 
For now, they just need to change the AI to prioritize attacking big empires... Because right now, big empires ignore the big ones to eat the small ones.
 
Agreed, one of the limiting factors to superstates in Warband is that other states would declare war on them to limit their power, resulting in 2-3 front wars.
 
There is a comment on RPG Codex which I agree with

It should come naturally. The attacker should suffer large enough casualties in sieges to make a more protracted campaign impossible. If the attacker isn't paying dearly for each city he decides to storm, then something is either wrong with the siege mechanic (the defenders don't have enough of an advantage), or with the overmap AI (the defenders don't provide enough troops to defend the city). Fixing this should naturally fix the snowball issue without the need for artificial mechanics.
 
I don't disagree with any of the above. Invasions should be costly, assaults on fortified positions even more so... A smarter AI which better prioritises large targets, defence of their territory, etcetera etcetera would be useful and so would all the other million suggestions. But lets be honest, enough to make a true difference will probably take months to introduce, and even then these will need balancing within itself. But at its core snowballing is a result of dozens of different things, and balancing even a few of them, let alone dozens, will likely be a pain in the ***. I want to see progress with softer approaches such as those over the coming months, but for now the priority should be getting the game playable beyond a year or two as fast as possible, and I reckon a heavy handed approach will be the best way of doing that.
 
Whilst its great to see TaleWorlds working hard on pushing decent updates to fix the issues with the current release of the game, I'm sure the thing 99% of us are interested in seeing is snowballing come to a halt...

In that regard, I have some bad news. Despite the attempts to limit it somewhat by changes made in update 1.2 and 1.4, I am actually seeing one of fastest Snowballs in my four characters in my latest save, created solely in this update.

70 days in, the Battanians have completely conquered, bar a single city and castle, the Western Empire. To be honest, I hadn't put much hope in the latest patches doing much to slow it down. Snowballing is a result of what I can only presume is dozens of contributing factors, balancing issues and currently missing features, and I imagine seriously limiting it through a soft approach, instead of hard limitation on the AI's ability to wage war, will require months of fine tweaking to existing gameplay, which doesn't even take into account future imbalances brought about by the introduction of hopefully loads of new features to the game as Early Access roles on...

I'm worried for Bannerlord. It has loads of potential, and for an early access game, nearly everything is there for it to be an incredibly fun experience which will allow the community and developers to work together to create a masterpiece... But snowballing will seriously limit that. Put simply, a Mount and Blade game, entirely based around long term play, is going to rapidly loose its tester base when a save lasts a year, maybe two, before one faction emerges as a hegemon, if not outright owner of all Calradia. Never mind the fact I imagine testing of late game features and more general stability, performance and such as years or even decades in game pass is going to simply be none existent, because few people will be playing saves more than one to three years...

I hate to say it, because its pretty crushing, but considering I imagine getting it truly balanced will be months of work... Right now I would prefer to see that heavy handed approach I was discussing earlier, hard limitations to AI warfare. Perhaps, unless you are a vassal for of a faction or have created your own kingdom and have several fiefs to your name, war between AI nations should be limited to the taking of a one or two fiefs before a peace of 50 - 100 days is imposed? I'm not sure how difficult such hard limitations to impose would be to code into the game, but I imagine it must be simpler then trying to somehow balance warfare and snowballing in its current form, even without considering the game is still missing basic features to prevent this like real diplomacy, such as alliances and coalitions.

I think at this point, most people who want to seriously dive into a single player game and truly have a great Mount and Blade experience in Bannerlord, would prefer heavy handed measures the likes of which we have put up with before in a slightly dressed up form (Cough 'Feasts' Cough), then continue to have games end after a year or two whilst TaleWorld tries to do what I imagine is going to be one of the hardest challenges developing this game presents, getting a balance between a totally static world and snowballing superpowers right.

ON A SIDE NOTE - Has anyone else noticed that since the initial, pre-patch release, the textures of clothing when in discussion with people, especially those you meet out in the campaign mode, now seems to load incredibly slowly? I'm not sure if I was simply totally blind when I first played the game (I doubt it as its blaringly obvious), but for some reason now I can be talking to someone and it can take up to 30 seconds before the game seems to load clothing textures outside of just these blurred colours.
After 4 saves I've had enough of the snowball. Every time i establish my character or join a faction I want to play its too late to save the game. I no longer want to invest time in a new character. I am also someone actively reporting bugs, there are probably many others in my position. I would agree and really want them to implement SOMETHING to slow it down. 50 years would be blissful, but in my opinion the AI should take 300 years to conquer the whole map on its own. this would give ample time to combat any rising factions and fully build out your clan family line without rushing.
 
I agree more drastic action is needed. Like limiting the amount of armies a faction can have at once, or just changing the AI around- Until civil wars, and factions working against bigger ones is added in. Even then, they may not be enough on their own.
 
After 4 saves I've had enough of the snowball. Every time i establish my character or join a faction I want to play its too late to save the game. I no longer want to invest time in a new character. I am also someone actively reporting bugs, there are probably many others in my position. I would agree and really want them to implement SOMETHING to slow it down. 50 years would be blissful, but in my opinion the AI should take 300 years to conquer the whole map on its own. this would give ample time to combat any rising factions and fully build out your clan family line without rushing.
Do what I'm going to do, after the map is unplayable, just export your character with the mod from Nexus, and play again with a stronger character. Like some kind of New Game +
 
Do what I'm going to do, after the map is unplayable, just export your character with the mod from Nexus, and play again with a stronger character. Like some kind of New Game +
What does the mod export exactly? Just looks and stats?
 
I agree with the OP here. The devs have made a wholly dynamic system, an impressive achievement to be sure, but because of the complexity of the simulation, "balancing" this is like trying to control the weather; it's hopeless. I have watched the devs of X4: Foundations struggle with this same issue for almost 2 years and while they have achieved a modicum of stability the cost has been very high in terms of dev hours, and you can bet that even a modest balance change will send the whole thing spiraling out of control again. Unfortunately the player for the most part are unaware of what is going on under the hood. All they see is a faction dominating and crushing all opposition after which the game is essentially over. So we have to ask: what actually is the point of making this thing so dynamic? Does the game actually benefit from this? Would it not be much better to have something that just *feels* dynamic when viewed through the limited window of the player's vision, while under the hood being much more controlled and scripted?
 
I agree with the OP here. The devs have made a wholly dynamic system, an impressive achievement to be sure, but because of the complexity of the simulation, "balancing" this is like trying to control the weather; it's hopeless. I have watched the devs of X4: Foundations struggle with this same issue for almost 2 years and while they have achieved a modicum of stability the cost has been very high in terms of dev hours, and you can bet that even a modest balance change will send the whole thing spiraling out of control again. Unfortunately the player for the most part are unaware of what is going on under the hood. All they see is a faction dominating and crushing all opposition after which the game is essentially over. So we have to ask: what actually is the point of making this thing so dynamic? Does the game actually benefit from this? Would it not be much better to have something that just *feels* dynamic when viewed through the limited window of the player's vision, while under the hood being much more controlled and scripted?
That would take forever to redevelop at this point. There has to be some sort of short term fix that they can implement. At this point ill even take a "we have temporarily disabled AI wars" just so i can enjoy the game.
 
While some are happy and bubbling over the level up system (it's currently not even functional with companions) there are those who see the big picture early here. It's going to be a long road here with this AI snowballing issue. The balancing/ pace of this game is an abject mess currently.
 
最后编辑:
后退
顶部 底部