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I disagree. Game maker programs are prety much like a game with a moddable system. Just like a mod, unless you have access to the source code ( unlikely) and spend insane amounts of work changing what the core engine *is* ( very unlikely), you are pretty much set to what you can and cannot do. And what you can do is dress a game that's already made.

Though in a way you are so very right. There are many games released now and then that are nothing but a glorified mod. Take Oblivion and Fallout 3 for instance. Same game, dressed in a different costume.

MoP, what you have to realise is game makers aren't how you make games, it's a lot harder than that, the only things you can do with game makers is make very basic shells of games.

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This is right MoP, if you seriously want to get into gamemaking you will not learn anything by working on these "game maker" type software. I guess it depends on what's your aim, but if you want to seriously develop a game by yourself I would start by learning programming ( wich unfortunatelly is not easy and takes time), get an engine ( there are several cheap quality ones and also open source like Ogre) and work it out.

Buxton said:

Dear dear, it's only a bit of fun.

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It almost seems as though criticism offends you . Better yet, it seems that criticism kills children in Africa. Is there a point to whine about someone that disagrees with you over something as simple as a depiction of a power armor?

The point being I was asking El Duke to quantify the statement, not Todd Howard.

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I think by now there's proof, beyond reasonable doubt, that Fallout 3 is Oblivion with guns. My explanation was unnecessary and redundant  .

Btw, I loved that part in the video where Todd Howard fires a teddy bear with his "Rock-it Launcher" ( Plagiarism of Half-Life gravity gun) and explodes that poor raider to bloody chunks. Did anyone also think that was retarded?

Cleaning Agent said:

Rilder said:

Trooper5445 said:

The ability to set your own goals.

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HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

OH MAN, HAHAHAHHAA

That made my day.

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What kind of an answer is that exactly? Do you even have a ****ing point to make? No. You just hit caps lock as whacked your thick skull against the keyboard for a bit.

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I think he was mocking the fact that most of this so called "Ability to set your own goals" comes from the subjective penchant of the Oblivion Player for LARPing and not the game design in itself.

First-Person perspective, real-time, dungeon crawling, wiki style dialog, vast open world, minigames, sandbox feel, level scaling, radiant A.I, quest compass, fast travel, gamebryo engine...there are also Orcs, Paladins,Flaming swords, the Bethesda logo on the box, Todd Howard as the lead and Emil Pags as the writer/quest designer, celebrity voice acting and... the hype.

If all the journalists that saw/played the game claiming it to be "Oblivion in a post-apoc world", "Oblivion 2", "The true follow-up to Oblivion" isn't enough for you then there are the devs themselves drawing that conclusion. I quote Todd Howard :

To all the people saying it's Oblivion with guns I now say it *is* Oblivion with guns, but in all the best ways!

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Face it, it's an oblivion overhaul, with new "guns" gameplay funcionality, a post-apoc setting and hopefully some improvement over it's "predecessor"( Oblivion). Like you said, not necessarily a bad thing...if you like Oblivion.

Alex_Augmented said:

One of the things that I believe, is that everyone needs to get over the fact that it's Oblivion 2. I mean, even if it is the spiritual successor, isn't that a good thing? Bethesda are no doubt going to see the flaws in Oblivion, and fix them?

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Possibly. A lot of the problems have been suposedly adressed, such as the level scaling and A.I. The whole nature of the game also fixes some of Oblivion's subjective flaws, such as lack of plot and depth ( there are less characters , a smaller game world and less of a sandbox nature. Therefore these should be better, naturally).

If you liked Oblivion you obviously gonna like Fallout 3, wich is a similar game, but obviously better,

Okay, so again my point of view and interest come into analysis? God, I must be so fascinating  . Why don't you just go ahead and start a thread about me?

To respond though, my interest in Fallout 3 boils done to the great comic value, to it's relevance to the state of the gaming industry and to my likeness for the franchise that's being raped ( Fallout). That's considerable interest, so I follow the news on the game even though I won't play it.

And well, you see...  Fallout 3 is Oblivion 2. I don't see how commenting on Oblivion is unrelated.

El Duke, if you take issue with this post, take it to PM, I do not plan to read this thread again.

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What a fascinating little troll ! He was just browsing and decided to leave his unnecessary, stupid trollish comment that again strayed this topic more into off topic and contributed to the current lameness of this thread. Where do such people come from?

No.

I've posted a lot of new information on this thread ( including the gameplay video and hands-on previews) and commented on them, replying to replies to my comments. If people were somehow offended by my point of view and started bluntly trolling this is by no means my fault.

You are an idiot that spammed the thread with brilliant posts such as "Shut Up!" and "You are the troll!". You should be banned from any respectable forum. I don't remember the last post you made that wasn't off topic and trolling.

A wise man once said "If you don't like my apples, please don't shake my tree". Does this thread really has to go down to this level of retardness ?

Mage246 said:

YOU ARE THE TROLL.

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Leprechaun said:

I can tell you that there is a mountain outside my door, but until you come here you can't know that I'm lying for sure..

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This is exibit A that proves that this thread is becoming far too intellectual.

Seriously, if you are not going to talk about the game, don't have nothing remotely interesting to express and  simply want to troll on me, you should just shut up. Why to drag this on? This thread will get locked after the second page of pure trolling is filled up. Maybe sooner.

I will admit this is being fun though, in a tragic way. I laughed my ass off when Leprechaun made his mountain analogy.

Indeed this is tiresome. Why does everytime I state my point of view I'm indulged to explain it, like if the said troll is a stupid little child (i.e: Leprechaun) ? It's getting repetitive. And the trolling? This whole page consists of trolls (including a moderator) basiccaly throwing ad hominen **** at me for no good reason.

I have no interest in Failout 3, I'm just making fun and commenting on it. Don't like it? your problem. I'm not spamming, all my posts have been comments to news and replies to posts. You are the one that seems to really care considering you were just annoyingly trying so hard to convince me to wait for the game to be released and played before passing judgement and indulging me to explain (again) why I think the game sucks.

I can tell that the game is basically an overhaul mod for Oblivion. I can also tell that it's gameplay mechanics are gimmicky, consolized and shooter like. I can also tell that Bethesda is incapable of anything remotely good regarding quest design, and roleplaying, wich is vital for a game that is supposed to be a fallout sequel.

Yada, yada, yada, I could go on and on. Why do you make me repeat myself? just shut up.

I can tell you that there is a mountain outside my door, but until you come here you can't know that I'm lying for sure.

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Whow, how did you manage to keep your head from exploding into chunks of blood while you were typing that  ? I'm speechless. That's the most brilliant argument I've ever read. Perhaps you are right, I will wait till the game is released.

;sarcasm; Maybe Bethesda will throw away all they did so far and remake the game , or maybe all the game journalists have been lying. Maybe the official site for the game has been hacked and maybe the videos of the game are a phony ;sarcasm;

But seriously, it's about your judgement. If you want to wait for the first Oblivion 2 naked mod to see if the super mutant/orcs asses are also banana coloured before judging the game, fine. But I've seem enough. Any info that will come by playing the game is nitpicking.I know what the game will be like ( you would too if you weren't so...erm, unable to comprehend the simplest of things, to put it in a polite way ). For somebody that disliked Oblivion, there's more than enough info to know, for sure, that Fallout 3/Oblivion2 will be disliked, it's that simple. Now shut up, because I don't want to explain again.

Leprechaun said:

I say that it would likely be a good idea simply to wait for the damn game to come out before you pass judgement on it.
Rant over.

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So I'm the one repeating myself? How ironic  . You do understand why don't ya? This stupid argument you just presented is omnipresent in this thread. So, I will repeat myself a little more : the game is finished and I have all the info I need to pass judgement on it. What I've seem so far is utter crap. Repetitive isn't it?

Mage246 said:

I love the whole faux intellectual thing you've got going on. As though portraying your thoughts in an eloquent manner actually turned them into anything more than random insults

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Oh good sir, I'm so sorry that I told you to drown in your own urine after you bluntly told me to shut up, for no good reason and considering I wasn't even arguing with you. I will try to be as polite and uninsulting as yourself from now on.

Taking into account your silly argument, gentlemen, this whole thread is as repetitive as my humble self. People mocking and whining the game every time more news come out, people retardedly claiming that one must wait till the game is released before judging all the crap that has been seem as...crap, oblivion fanboys taking offense at criticism aimed at Bethesda and Oblivion, and etc.

And I take you folks are new to the interwebs or discussion boards? either that or you have something agains't me and my point of view. Because you see, it's all a cycle. Like the "Why does everyone hates Oblivion thread" just started on these boards. That's a sucject that has been touched many times, for years, everywhere, everytime. How repetitive.

Now, if you silly, SILLY young men have nothing to add to the discussion ( even if it provides repetition, it's okay if it's on topic) and want to keep trolling and ad hominen on my way, make use of your own sage advice and shut up. You are also welcome to make use of my advice and drown on your own urine.

Mage246 said:

Merentha said:

you shut up.

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Agreed. You are annoyingly repetitive.

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Good sir you have posted an unnecessary, trollish comment that brought nothing to the discussion meant to be adressed by this thread.  You should not only shut up as also drown on your own urine.

Archonsod said:

See, you claim to have played it, but then you come out with something stupid like

El Duke said:

In case nobody has noticed the game made use of about 1 city design,

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Every city has a completely different layout and architecture. I mean, if you can spot a similarity between the circular layout of  log cabins in Bruma and the twisting design of the gothic stone Skingrad I'd like to hear it.

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I was being sarcastic. Regardless, yes, Oblivion designs tend to repeat themselves ad nauseam, wich quite takes away the feeling of exploration. The dungeons, cities, forests and everything else have very little variation and it does feels like a tube roll in a an old cartoon.

No, I comment on the news and reply to comments and replies to my comments. If my pessimism sounds repetitive to you, suppose you should do what? perhaps skip my posts? Good sir you are so unreasonable.

Usually, that means you shut up.

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Really? I will think about that.

Bellum said:

The Morrowind setting was unique and interesting.

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This. It was nothing to get excited about, but it had it's merits, unlike Oblivion, wich looked like a Disneyland medieval theme park.

And yes, I played Oblivion. Not a very good, nor long experience.

Llew2 said:

Simple: I played Morrowind first. And had one hecka awesome time with it.

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So your problem was the severe dumbing down, "consolization" and severance of any artistic value ( Morowind had quite a bit of it)?

Can moderators be reported for trolling  ?

Well, well, where to begin with :

For starters, what bugs me the most is the overrating. All the "straight A's" from the game press, all the hype, all the not so very bright people claiming it to be "the best rpg ever", "the best game ever". If it was to be taken for what it is ( i.e : a pretty shallow game that appeals to a certain crowd) probably I and all the (many)people that disliked the game would just pass it over, probably just forget about it. But when you look upon this mediocre game in the spectrum of al the hype that was built around it, it looks even more mediocre. Stupendously mediocre. That's where the negativity comes from.

It's a game that failed on all levels, except perhaps, being sucessfull in being a very acessible and casual game, and being sucessfull.

* The art direction : We will all agree that Oblivion was mediocre in this aspect. A generic "Disneyland" style looking fantasyland number .265835 with poorly executed scene and asset building . In case nobody has noticed the game made use of about 1 city design, 3 dungeons and 1 forest, repeated ad nauseam. Travelling the lands of Cyrodill felt like one of those old cartoons where the background is a tube roll with 3 pictures ( representing the same place with slight variation) rolling in movement.

The soundtrack was also a generic romp presented by Jeremy "Boring" Souless.

* "Radiant" A.I : What was to be supposedly the "future of games", thanks to all the lies from the developers and hype from the press, turned out to be a joke :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ATh4y4XRjA&feature=related

* The Game Design : Stupid level scaling, the removal of any consequence, choice and proper roleplaying ( By this I don't mean  LARPING), Hand holding and all sorts of poor, poor design choices. The only thing remotely *good* about the game design is that a chimpanze with a head injury could sucessfully play the game, enjoy it, and finish it. But that unfortunatelly left a gap regarding content that people without ADD could enjoy.

The only quests remotely interesting and with remotely any depth are the dark brotherhood ones, and they only look good in comparison to the forgetable ones contaned in this game. When you put them against anything Troika or Black Isle did, you will see they are poor and weak.

* THE *RETARDED* TREND :

All the praise, all the hype...I'm afraid more games will follow Bethesda horrible formula for sucess ( wich remotes to something like "The dumber, the more casual, and the more simple a game is, the better). The developers of the game consider themselves visionaries and geniuses. A joke in itself.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8tMPOeTcYw

Does this man looks like a genius to you?

From what I played ( little but enough) saw and read about the game, this is the basic. There are reviews ( honest reviews, not the general gaming press sucking and claiming this to be a perfect game) all around the web that point out how much the game sucks in a better more ellaborate way. They are worth a read merely for the humour value, if not for just the information.

Archonsod said:

I'd be amazed if he even played it Dunno why he still bothers the rest of us though

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I'm commenting on a game, on the section of a forum meant to discuss games, on a specific thread about a certain game. No need for unpoliteness, mr.moderator.

Ollieh said:

One thing is for sure. If Fallout 3 turns out good or even excellent, El Duke will still hate it.

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The game is finished and it's Oblivion 2.

Oblivion 2 is not good

Not good at all. Really.Not at al.Impossible.

journalist hearsay

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The ign writer claims to have played 200 hours of Oblivion Joy, and he played Fallout 3. So he knows what he's talking about when he says Fallout is "Just like Oblivion". Hearsay?

And you've yet to show why Oblivion 2 would be a bad thing ...

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Because Oblivion sucked?

Even if I liked Oblivion I would still think it sucks that they spent 5 million bucks on the ip of the fallout franchise just to shoehorn a lame excuse of Fallout 3 into...Oblivion. There goes a game franchise. Dead and Buried I mean.