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i won't be buying this game. Its been too long and I can smell the disaster a mile away. They should have got investment years ago and gone full time. This is clearly a worn out hobby project. Most of the fans have grown up and probably have full time jobs and babies (just like the developers). They will run away with the profits (or whatever amount of money they can relaim for their lost time). Its a very unfortunate ending.

Scarf Ace said:

JamesHardaker said:

Scarf Ace said:

JamesHardaker said:

not looking good for taleworlds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k06w_b0Hqiw

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Again, I'm a Vive owner, and I and many others already pointed out a couple of problems with this on Reddit:

1. There's not really much going on in terms of fighting. It's just killing. The AI isn't actually very good at fighting which means that once the novelty of killing wears off, it'll all quickly become boring.
2. The developer has made statements that show that he's taking the wrong approach in this regard. Rather than focus on solving this issue, he seems to primarily want to add even more flashy crap like magic spells. You can already slow down time, do telekinesis and jump 3 meters into the air, and you also have an overpowered Dark Messiah style kick. The game would already be too easy without all that rubbish, and he aims to make it even easier instead of focusing on core fighting mechanics.

This isn't the type of combat VR needs. Flashy brutal killing already exists in things like Gorn, and it gets boring very quickly. What's needed is a system more like M&B's in concept (but obviously very different in execution) - namely, one that instead of trying to look cool, actually focuses on working.

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its not finished. Better AI is a given. You can hold the weapons any way you like and catch shields with the tip of your axe. This is far more immersive. He doesnt need to develop a "fighting system" if the physics are correct.

The thing i like best about M&B (and i dont think im alone here) is the intuitive mouse  movements one has to make to attack from different angles - this was the Unique Selling Point, VR done properly takes this to the next level. The RPG elements are cool but ultimately they are flawed or broken most of the time.

As a huge fan of M&B but too busy to be paying video games as much as I used to I will only be buying Bannerlord if the reviews are fantastic because I've grown weary of waiting. Really, M&B:BL is going to undersell M&B vanilla at this rate, that's the market right now. Fans of the original are 10 years older than when it was released and that means kids/responsibilities and less time for that sequel you forgot the name of.

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I've discussed this with the developer himself. He doesn't want any depth, he wants it to be "cool and cinematic" - ultimately his design goals completely waste all the potential by creating mechanics that drive you away from the cool stuff like shield hooking, instead he wants super jumps and force-push. Basically his idea is to create a game with very rudimentary enemies, and then an RPG system that gives you an ever increasing array of gimmick moves to kill them in new ways.
Even his own testers say this is a terrible approach to take (as gimmicks are fun maybe three times at most and run out eventually), but he isn't listening to me or them.

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give that the video demo's show the exact opposite I think you're taking him too literally. At the end of the day if he is attempting accurate physics modelling (including weight simulation) and putting in the effort to allow the player lift a weapon at any point along its handle then it needs to at least appear and feel correct otherwise it would just look (cinematically as well) like a bug. Generally things that look cool and cinematic in a historical setting look realistic and accurate. The difference is moot. (on that record M&B castle sieges look like poop and they play/feel like poop too). And it wouldnt be hard to have better AI than M&B.

What he wants isn't what has been made.

Scarf Ace said:

JamesHardaker said:

not looking good for taleworlds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k06w_b0Hqiw

Click to expand...

Again, I'm a Vive owner, and I and many others already pointed out a couple of problems with this on Reddit:

1. There's not really much going on in terms of fighting. It's just killing. The AI isn't actually very good at fighting which means that once the novelty of killing wears off, it'll all quickly become boring.
2. The developer has made statements that show that he's taking the wrong approach in this regard. Rather than focus on solving this issue, he seems to primarily want to add even more flashy crap like magic spells. You can already slow down time, do telekinesis and jump 3 meters into the air, and you also have an overpowered Dark Messiah style kick. The game would already be too easy without all that rubbish, and he aims to make it even easier instead of focusing on core fighting mechanics.

This isn't the type of combat VR needs. Flashy brutal killing already exists in things like Gorn, and it gets boring very quickly. What's needed is a system more like M&B's in concept (but obviously very different in execution) - namely, one that instead of trying to look cool, actually focuses on working.

Click to expand...

its not finished. Better AI is a given. You can hold the weapons any way you like and catch shields with the tip of your axe. This is far more immersive. He doesnt need to develop a "fighting system" if the physics are correct.

The thing i like best about M&B (and i dont think im alone here) is the intuitive mouse  movements one has to make to attack from different angles - this was the Unique Selling Point, VR done properly takes this to the next level. The RPG elements are cool but ultimately they are flawed or broken most of the time.

As a huge fan of M&B but too busy to be paying video games as much as I used to I will only be buying Bannerlord if the reviews are fantastic because I've grown weary of waiting. Really, M&B:BL is going to undersell M&B vanilla at this rate, that's the market right now. Fans of the original are 10 years older than when it was released and that means kids/responsibilities and less time for that sequel you forgot the name of.

not looking good for taleworlds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k06w_b0Hqiw

players cant call functions which dont exist but they can break a function which isnt tested. I seriously doubt employees turn to their bosses with the excuse "players are unpredictable so im not going to unit test" when they are writing functions.

manual testing is for integration issues which you have just described - these which come together to cause a problem where apart they are ok. Good encapsulation of code is key here.

However if you write a function and dont include post / pre conditions and write a unit test your being sloppy.

In Warband there was an issue with family trees where everyone would be related to everyone. Trees are really easy to unit test aswell. The family tree would be a module of its own which you can run in a test harness and simulate external factors (such as lords leaving calradia).

The moral bug, food having 0 impact, is easily detected.

These bugs are a sign that the product isnt ready for manual testing.

Manual testing is extreemily hairy business because it is very difficult to replicate the same scenario which caused the bug the first time and when a bug reappears (as mentioned above) you have to retest and typically bugs are missed...again. The more bugs you can catch through automated units tests the better. In the long run you save lots of time.

obviously none of you have ever written a unit test. Bugs like the one above are easily picked up the instant they happen without running the full program. Why do you think games like COD are incredibly stable? Its not manual testing. Everything is unit tested, you can put rules into your source control which force unit testing and then you have code reviews to make sure they are getting good code coverage / completeness. Under these circumstances the only bugs you would get are integration bugs which are very difficult to test for. Number wrap arounds are piss easy to defend against.

Ps. I write pension software and it is seriously fuggly, 1000's of calculations way more complex than the above bug and we capture similar errors without thinking about it.

write unit tests and you have something to go forward with, once they are written it costs 0 man hours to run them.

i have had all of the above problems. To fix the hair go into the editor and redo it. The family relation thing is massive incest, those sick *****. The city stock is fixed after 1 day. Only breaks when i load now. I cant build factories! ARRGGG!! Fortunately all the villages and cities are constantly maxed out in wealth. I think thats a bug too.

i had this too. It stopped doing it eventually. Probably some minor rounding / logic error.

Sir_George commanded a team last week.
I wasn't impressed.

you dont need a mic, just listen.

I love it. High risk, high reward. The devs should take note and try to optimize for it. If its open and readable we could make our own server...

diavel said:

GrandmaFunk said:

"i don't really know" is exactly what "ignorant" means, by the way.

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No, it's not what "ignorant" means. You don't know it either btw. Also - don't quote-mine me.

GrandmaFunk said:

(...)steam is an advertisement application and (...) is very very silly. (...)the "ads" are extreme(...) some thinly disguised malware app (...) for PC gamers.

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GrandmaFunk said:

what about your browser? what about any other application on your computer, including Warband itself? why does Steam worry you so much more than all these other apps?

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My browser hides ads for me. Steam doesn't worry me that much as you say. As I said its pros are smaller than cons, that's why I think its a reason not to use it. What are pros of using it actually? Please explain. And I mean steam application only, not game store.

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you can join the games/servers your friends are in.
it gives you a global name across games
achievements
friends list
community interaction / forums
voice chat
game statistics (are there many online today?)
quick auto patching (love it or hate it)
in-game internet browser with flash support (some games have a long waiting period if you die)
small footprint
Trailers
Demos
Links to articles / reviews
PC statistics
Free indie games

The benefits are endless, in fact me and most of my friends leave it running more than MSN (or any other chat program) when we are not gaming.

Steam made gaming more accessible to me and many, where is the con in that?

if steam didnt have adds, that would be stupid and i would be upset because those adds are useful

i am not a barman either, i dont know where that came from, i work for a digital agency doing .net. I was a barman once, those were some good times. Insulting steam is flame worthy because Valve made it and they are the only big pc centric developer we have left

diavel said:

JamesHardaker said:

with steam you can browse the web while waiting to respawn without tabing out. You can chat to your friends on steam without tabing out while playing. I can see why that would be anoying.
Also, why didnt you buy warband from this website? Taleworlds would probably get more money.

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It seemed to be too complicated for my simple brain. I naively purchased a copy from one of Polish (that's my country) stores. I wanted to have a box, a cd and a little book, from no rational reason. To my surprise cd, besides the game itself, contained steam application; and I didn't get serial key for warband at first. I had to install steam and then install warband from steam application. I will never buy any game from that store again.

What's annoying about steam application? Well it's just that I don't need any advertising application running in background and doing things I have no way to check. Besides there was some weirdness about updates - they're always too late. So I got serial key from steam application and downloaded the newest version from taleworlds.net. So, yeah, that's my story, my friend. Now I'm older and trying to make my life back to normal.

Now you have to admit you sound like a PR/marketing person from steam. Nothing wrong with it if you are, though. Cheers.

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no im not. But valve have done more for pc gaming than any other company out there. Show respect you tool. Steam is excellent software (i am a software developer) and 2 million people right now using steam agree with me.

diavel said:

Yes, yes, to be totally fair Steam is surely a nice invention for human enjoyment. By Steam I mean Internet game store - not annoying application that I uninstalled right after retrieving  the serial key for Warband.

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with steam you can browse the web while waiting to respawn without tabing out. You can chat to your friends on steam without tabing out while playing. I can see why that would be anoying.
Also, why didnt you buy warband from this website? Taleworlds would probably get more money.

i think taleworlds should put something on their news page

there were 200 people on 22nd_Siege all day, we need to advertise more

Mulek said:

Hethwill said:

Kudos to Mabonz for a most excelent schiltron ever. With a 100 players in upcoming sessions the same will be colossal and epic.

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Caught it after some battling:

Spoiler

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put some speech bubbles in there for comic effect.

is this on again? no problems?