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  1. Lord Raider

    World News Today, brought to you by TW

    Car bomb attack in Izmir, Turkey.

    One policeman and a court official died, at least seven people, including two policemans, were also injured.

    http://www.trtworld.com/turkey/car-bomb-attack-in-turkeys-izmir-kills-policeman-court-official-268597
  2. Lord Raider

    The Syrian Civil War. Do you support a side?

    Gestricius said:
    So like a Turkish version of Andrew Choudary?
    Click to expand...
    Actually I don't know him but I guess, yes, it looks like they're walking on same route.
  3. Lord Raider

    The Syrian Civil War. Do you support a side?

    I saw this monkey on youtube. Actually, he is not from ISIS officially. In Turkish language, we use "şubesi olmak/being of branch" pattern as "someone who is sympathizer for". Probably, our news agency may use this pattern like "Ebu Hanzala who is one of the important sympathizers of ISIS", if foreigner agencies translate it directly, it's possible to understand it as like this.

    But Islamists became usual in Turkey recent years. You can see them everywhere. And actually, this monkey's real name is Halis Bayancuk, and near to El-Kaide.
  4. Lord Raider

    The Syrian Civil War. Do you support a side?

    Wellenbrecher said:
    There's apparently an ISIS video showing the... let's say "execution" of two captured Turkish soldiers from that al-Bab disaster with the tanks.
    Apparently talking about and/or sharing that video will get you arrested in Turkey. Just for funsies.
    Click to expand...

    Yes, there are some rumors about this. One of my friend said to me that "I watched the video and I'm sure that they were Turkish soldiers." I do not know who they are and do not want to watch this kind of evilness. But yes, as I remember, official authorities clarified that "Sharing and boosting the terrorist propoganda will be punished."

    Actually we shouldn't think that this is about freedom or somethink like that. Because if Turkey and psychology of Turkish people may not overcome videos, it may cause lynchs and attacks to every kind of people in country in this sensitive situation.

    Wellenbrecher said:
    Wait what? The official ISIS head for Turkey is known by name and face and is free to move about the country? The ****?
    He's giving interviews on TV and ****.
    Click to expand...
    Where did you see this? Are you sure?
  5. Lord Raider

    The Syrian Civil War. Do you support a side?

    Úlfheðinn said:
    Focusing on Turkey, what do you see as needing to occur for Turkey to become a global power?
    Click to expand...
    This can be a good topic for a new book. If I talk from the real(!) world, I can say that Turkey must do lots of things to become a global power.

    First of all, our education system isn't working about five hundred years. And mostly, Islam is the most effective factor for this problem. Because, one of the greatest Sultan of Ottoman Empire, Selim I, after the gained the title of 'Caliph', invited clergy of 'Selefi/Eshari' sect. Before this, Turks were mostly 'Maturidi' which was a reconciled sect with science. This became beginning of Turkish collapse. We're trying to fix this since this times.

    We must change this and build a new educational system for our requirements. We're not European, not Middle Easterner, not Asian. We're the people of migration and changing. In my opinion, new education system must build on this basis. I'm sure that technology and other developments will materialize after if we can achieve this.

    Second; as you know, Turkish lands are enough for Turkish people for agriculture, clean water and other natural resources. But after this government, policies changed and Turkey became a country which is importing most of his needs. We even imported wheat from Bulgaria and Ukraine. Can you imagine that? Anatolia is feeding its people thousands of years. But we're importing wheat. So, we must rebuild our agriculture system.

    Third; I talked on negative sides of us, but, as I read from history, Turks always show a characteristic which is related to conquer and rule. I'm not a Neo-Ottomanist but Arabs... I'm not sure that there is a possibility for peace and justice while they're ruling in Middle East. After the new educational system, technological developments, agriculture revolution, Turks should do something to bring peace and justice as a one of the most experienced nation in Earth for Middle East.

    If we can do these three and it is possible to open a way for becoming a global power.



    Almalexia said:
    Well, certainly. I think, particularly on the last part, that this is exactly what we are trying to convey. Given the current situation, politically, militarily, and economically in Turkey, nonetheless among the other countries you have listed, how can the conclusion "most likely", or even "probably", result in some sort of sweeping and centralized political-military organization stretching across the swath of Eurasia?

    Now, if your claim was simpler, say, that the economic center of the world was shifting back to the "East", than yeah, absolutely. You can track economic trends and statistics. But throw politics into it, and everything gets a lot messier, especially given the current situation of relations. Turkey doesn't get along with Iran, China isn't really friends with India, the China-Russian cooperation is tense and based on pragmatism born of the structure of the UN Security Council alone... etc. Now we could speculate on situations that might change that, but that is all you can do: speculate. Given the current state of affairs, one would logically conclude that close alliance between even any of the powers listed: Russia, Turkey, China, India, and Iran, to be "unlikely".
    Click to expand...
    Actually, I've no claim. :smile: I was born in Turkey and visited few European countries. I'm just wondering that 'what if paradigm changes'. Because we growed in a culture that is trying to catch 'West', this is not abnormal for me. We accustommed to live in problems, crisis, coup attemts, explosions. But for US and Europe, if paradigm changes, results may be crushing for people which is living in peace.



    Cpt. Nemo said:
    Sort of this. Yes, it's war, some tanks are going to be damaged or blown up. No tank is invulnerable, no crew is undefeatable. The United States lost a few Abrams over the years, for example. But no tank was ever allowed to be captured by the enemy. The very few times the tank couldn't be recovered, it was blown sky **** high to deny the enemy of ammunition, technology, weaponry, and trophies.

    Turkey abandoned them to the enemy. ISIS isn't likely to reverse engineer a tank anytime soon, but they did get plenty of goodies that were left ready to use inside the tank, and embarrassed Turkey thoroughly. That's not really something a proper military would allow against insurgents.
    https://southfront.org/isis-releases-more-photos-with-captured-destroyed-turkish-military-equipment/
    Click to expand...
    In my opinion, you should read this kind of news from both sides. TSK (Turkish Armed Forces) explained this. One broken Leopard-2 abandoned, when Euphrates Shield Forces withdrawed ISIS placed bomb to kill soldiers who will come to capture it. Because of this Turkish F-16s bombed the tank. As I remember there is one APC that is hit by ISIS abandoned too. War is something like that. It's normal.



    Gestricius said:
    Personally I find Turkey and their FSA allies incompetence on taking Al-Bab to be more mind-blowing.  :razz:
    Click to expand...
    Civilians, suicide bombers, bomb traps, experienced fighters who is ready to die for heaven, narrow streets, hired snipers, winter... This kind of wars are always unpredictable.
  6. Lord Raider

    The Syrian Civil War. Do you support a side?

    Almalexia said:
    A scientific theory still requires a reasonable basis and body of evidence.
    Click to expand...

    We're passing to philosophy of science from Syrian Civil War :smile: Whatever, I always love to talk about philosophy but my English is limited. :smile:

    First of all, I have to say that every scientific theory requires a destiny which will falsify itself. This is the structure of the science. As you know, after the scientific revolution, most of scientist began to worship science as religion. But every theory has broken by new studies, they always failed. As Nietzsche said "Only thing which is stable is the change." So, can we describe anything as reasonable? In my opinion, real scientific theory must include the terms of possibilities like 'mostly', 'probably', 'most likely'. 

    Note: After few sentences, I understood that my qualification is not enough to talk about philosophy of science. :smile:

    Some books which include changes of scientific consideration from epistemological side;

    'The Structure of Scientific Revolutions' by Thomas Kuhn,
    'On Certainty' by Ludwig Wittgenstein,
    'Truth and Method' by Hans-Georg Gadamer.
  7. Lord Raider

    The Syrian Civil War. Do you support a side?

    I know that we've already left from Syria matters.
    Úlfheðinn said:
    I do, but I'm always wary of widely theorizing, especially when the theorizing doesn't start with a concrete basis.

    It's like Turkey, sure we can sit here and throw "What if" scenarios around where Turkey somehow gains the resources, industry and technology to rival Russia, China, and the US, but without looking at the current state of Turkey as a country (and your military) it's a bit silly.
    Click to expand...
    I suggest you 'Ethnogenesis and the Biosphere of Earth' book which was written by Lev Gumilyov. It may help you to why I locked on this matter. I will try his thinking way to understand system which is working on this world with a few sentences.

    Imagine that you're not from this planet and flying over the earth with a spaceship in 18th century. Note everything what you see. Repeat this in 20th century and note all the changes and compare your concrete basis from 18th century. Can you say that concrete basis of 18th century is still working?

    We found Postmodernism because Modernist perspective didn't work most of times. So, your logic is acceptable for Ancient Greek, Enlightment and 19th century but not for today.
  8. Lord Raider

    Bannerlord için öneriler

    Caliph said:
    Lord Raider said:
    Mount % Blade'in 0.800x'li sürümlerinde de dile getirdiğim bir öneriyi tekrarlayayım. Binekler dışında evcil hayvanlar eklenmesi çok özgün olurdu.

    Not: Daha önce önerilmiş olabilir.
    Click to expand...

    Yav sen nerdesin. Adam kayboldu, foruma 10 yıl sonra geldi, evcil hayvanlarımız olsun diyor. Helal olsun kardeşim, 10 sene bu öneri konusunda bu kadar ısrarcıysan eğer, bu evcil hayvanları da bu oyuna eklememek onların ayıbıdır. Boşver. 10 sene ya.
    Click to expand...

    Cesaretimi anca toplayabildim vallahi. 10 senedir ya reddederlerse, ya beni beğenmezlerse diye kara kara düşündüm durdum.

    TOP SECRET: Bu süreçte önerim yerine getirilmezse diye adam da topladım.
  9. Lord Raider

    The Syrian Civil War. Do you support a side?

    Comrade Temuzu said:
    Lord Raider said:
    My fault, it was not 'any'. True typing is: "I do not remember a war without casualties."
    Click to expand...
    That's not really the point they're making though.
    Click to expand...

    What is the point that they're making though?
  10. Lord Raider

    Bannerlord için öneriler

    Mount % Blade'in 0.800x'li sürümlerinde de dile getirdiğim bir öneriyi tekrarlayayım. Binekler dışında evcil hayvanlar eklenmesi çok özgün olurdu.

    Not: Daha önce önerilmiş olabilir.
  11. Lord Raider

    Şu an ne dinliyorsunuz? (M&B (sessiz) radyo :)

  12. Lord Raider

    The Syrian Civil War. Do you support a side?

    Úlfheðinn said:
    In what way to do you feel that the number of nukes the US has compared to the rest of the world has changed significantly in the recent years?

    Again, I'm not saying technology doesn't matter or doesn't have a place in analyzing military power, but you're making some gigantic leaps of unfounded logic when you assume that suddenly several military  in the world will be comparable to the US because of technological advancements. It's like any "what if scenario" of course we can come up with some amazing technology that changes warfare forever, but the chances of such a technology being developed and the US not managing to keep up with the race is pretty low barring some massive catastrophe that ruins their entire technological/military industrial complex. Similarly this technology would then also have to be something that negates the numerical, resource, and geographical advantage the US has and continues to enjoy.

    The issue is further compounded by the fact that even if you suddenly say develop a new tank or fighter plane or whatever, you still need the money to equip your troops with it. Which is where say Russia and China struggle, sure they have developed great weapons that might even rival those of the US, but by and large they are in no way able to as thoroughly spread said weapons across their military forces.
    Click to expand...

    Sure, I never said that this theory will come true. I'm trying to learn your consideration about this possibility. But as I see, you don't want to look at the problem from the other side.

    Úlfheðinn said:
    Sure, but by that logic essentially there are something like 100+ countries in the world that are "almost super powers" because of a good starting point (e.g., thanks to successful espionage).

    I mean hell, even North Korea pulls of successful hacking and espionage operations, but I'm not inclined to consider a country that can barely feed itself to be anywhere near being a superpower.
    Click to expand...
    I never heard that a country who hacked US military satellites, but if someone did this in right time with a military power like Russia or China. Are we sure that US can handle it?

    Úlfheðinn said:
    If the world were to eventually become a series of larger alliances (ala Battlefield 2142), then sure, I expect the US/NATO alliance would actually be challenged for once.

    Basically TL;DR: "For the foreseeable future the US will remain the dominate superpower, China might eventually challenge them for hegemony in Asia and become a superpower, everyone else is basically left out of the big boys club unless some totally earth changing event occurs." (Which is why we run into these problems of "What if scenarios?" Like sure, say America is hit by an asteroid and is reduced to rubble, that would provide an excellent chance for China to step up and rule the world, but at the point we might as well discuss the chances of America developing an AI army that ultimately proves to be unstoppable and ushers in the a new era of American superiority).
    Click to expand...
    I read lots of sentences like these. But if you read the Ottoman Empire in 16th century for this matter, you can see same reactions and discourses. They always supposed that they will continue to rule as a superpower. Then scientific revolutions changed everything, trala la.

    PinCushion said:
    Lord Raider said:
    PinCushion said:
    And they lost a pair of Leopard II's to ISIS as somebody said earlier in the thread.
    Click to expand...
    I do not remember any war without casualties.
    Click to expand...
    You lost a pair of high tech tanks to Abu Hajaar. Think about that.
    Click to expand...
    Cpt. Nemo said:
    And not destroyed by ISIS. Captured.
    Click to expand...
    My fault, it was not 'any'. True typing is: "I do not remember a war without casualties."
  13. Lord Raider

    SP Fantasy Kingdoms of Arda (Lord of the Rings for Bannerlord)

    I loved your shield models. But center of axe's cutting edge looks like cornered. Is it because of the design or concept?
  14. Lord Raider

    Şu an ne dinliyorsunuz? (M&B (sessiz) radyo :)

  15. Lord Raider

    [WB][SP]Ankara:Timur'un Yükselişi![ALPHA ÇIKTI!][YENİ RESİMLER SON SAYFADA!]

    Beatrice Forbes MANZ,The Rise and Rule of Tamerlane, Cambridge University Press, 1989, Great Britain.
    David NICOLLE, The Mongol Warlords, Firebird Books, 1990, United Kingdom.
    David NICOLLE ve Angus MCBRIDE, The Age of Tamerlane, Men-At-Arms Series-222, Osprey Military, 2000, Oxford.

    Özellikle 'The Age of Tamerlane'i öneririm. Osprey askerî tarih dergileri çıkarır. Bir hayli bilgi var orada.
  16. Lord Raider

    The Syrian Civil War. Do you support a side?

    There are lots of answers, I'm gonna try to explain what I think about these to the extent permitted by my English. :smile:

    Das Knecht said:
    Unless something catastrophic happens, the USA will remain in the center of the world for a long time. China might emerge as an eventual competitor, but Russia? Never.
    Click to expand...
    Your thoughts are mostly bordered with today. But strategy always interests what will happen in the future. So, we can't say 'never'.

    Almalexia said:
    Loving all this talk of Turkey being a viable and useful military power and ally, while the purges going on over the past, idk, decade maybe but definitely intensifying after the coup basically put it at Soviet Union Winter War tier. Its a big military, but its mostly conscripts and unreliable, and political squabbles and upheavals make it unpredictable and ultimately practically useless as an ally besides as a buffer for someone else.
    Click to expand...
    Yes, we always said that there is lots of people who is not patriot(!) in Turkish army. It's known since 90's but their numbers increased with Erdogan while everyone was warning them. I accept that. In the other hand, there is really ancient tradition with Turkish people with army. And yes, wound of Turkish army's still bleeding but if politicans follows right policies, Turkey can heal his problems with his young population.

    Das Knecht said:
    Turkey may have a large military, but their ability to project their military power past their borders is poor. For example, their navy is useless at anything other than coastal defence, and their airplanes don't have the necessary range to engage much farther than the end of their borders.
    Click to expand...
    Actually, Turks never have a good navy in their history. Ottoman navy in 16th century was probably the best in Turkish history. But they mostly used Mediternean people  who live in their borders in Ottoman navy, not Turks or other nations. In my opinion, this is just about tradition. We can't blame anyone for this.

    In the other hand, Turkish Air Forces (Mostly F-16) can operate in about 800 kilometers from where they take-off with 'Barış Kartalı (Eagle of Peace)' plane which is modernized AWACS. You can calculate their range on a World Map.

    PinCushion said:
    And they lost a pair of Leopard II's to ISIS as somebody said earlier in the thread.
    Click to expand...
    I do not remember any war without casualties.

    Úlfheðinn said:
    That statement has been thrown around since WW2 and it has been proven wrong each and every time (the whole "technology has changed everything so we no longer need X unit or type of weapon anymore" type of logic).

    Technology is great, but at the end of the day you still need a military that works based on the tried and true principles of the past conflicts.
    Click to expand...
    Are you sure? Few comment ago, you said "US has nukes, so they can destroy everything if they need.". In my opinion, some technological movements can change the formula.

    Úlfheðinn said:
    I still think you're misunderstanding my argument.

    By your logic if Sweden hacks a US server, Sweden is now comparable in power to the United States.

    If Russia really is responsible for the DNC hack, it's of course a great victory for them, but even a small nation can "score" a victory against a superpower. To me, there's a giant difference between being able to engage in cyber-warfare and being able to park an aircraft carrier anywhere in the world on short notice before launching a massive military invasion.
    Click to expand...
    I understood your argument. But I still believe that if Sweden can do this, they can borrow and use military technologies, stragies, satellites of US. And in my opinion, this is really good starting point to be a superpower.

    Úlfheðinn said:
    Again though you're basically lumping together a bunch of countries that all compete against each other.

    So sure, in a magical world where China, Russia, India, and Iran unite to create a massive global superpower then sure the "East" might be the dominate superpower, but given that we are still dealing with a bunch countries with competing goals and plans, then no, no one is anywhere close to challenging the US.

    Similarly, out of all the countries you mentioned I wouldn't really emphasize the military tradition when gear/technology of the military is severely lacking. Most countries that have been around for a decent amount of time have a military tradition, so I'm more inclined to focus on how well-trained and well-equipped a military force is (which again is an area where America still pulls out ahead).
    Click to expand...
    Indeed, these countries are not in same way to unite and always been in passive war for their benefits like all countries do. But, if EU and US did this past years, it may be possible in Asia, too. Is this a magical world? Of course, it is. Every scenerio created in our minds is magical world which has possibility that will never happens. I was born and live in a world that controlled by the 'West' in my whole life. This is why I'm asking this, what if it happens?

    Comrade Temuzu said:
    And speaking of power projection, Turkey is projecting all over Syria right now, but as far as I'm aware, they haven't made as many advances as you'd expect from a military that's supposed to be up-to-date. I would have expected them to have steamrolled either ISIS, the Kurds or both by now.
    Click to expand...
    If we think Syria's geography and experience of group who is fighting there, yes, Turkish forces's advent is enough without supports of NATO and UN after the coup attempt. But 'all over Syria' term is not reasonable in Modern standards. I may accept that Turkish Air Force can operate all over Syria but this is just operational ability of them, not a protection.
  17. Lord Raider

    SP Fantasy Kingdoms of Arda (Lord of the Rings for Bannerlord)

    Always watched and waited LOTR based module attempts in M&B. I still remember my first battle in TLD. :smile: Wish you all the best.
  18. Lord Raider

    The Syrian Civil War. Do you support a side?

    Úlfheðinn said:
    I think we can be pretty confident about the current military state of most nations, sure we can't know everything, but say observing how Russia managed Crimea, it's pretty safe to assume they aren't going to be pulling off any major invasions any time soon. I'd suggest that in the modern era, it's pretty hard to hide entire armies or massive developments in your military (which isn't saying you can't manage to hide some stuff, but say Turkey isn't going to suddenly build a modern, high tech military without people noticing).
    Click to expand...

    In Modern world, there is no need to build a modern and hight tech armies as you've said. Just with a technology which can change the paradigm of military thought, makes everything possible. I meant this kind of developments.

    Úlfheðinn said:
    Also, there's a pretty giant difference between "can hack a political server" and being one of the only countries in the world that can invade any country virtually anywhere on the globe.

    It's like all discussions of power, it's never a one way street, sure Russia can meddle in American affairs or even outright hurt them, but you're still talking about a massive difference in what both countries can do if it comes to an actual war.
    Click to expand...

    Hmm. I don't think so. Hacking an election system means that most of policy of US can benefit for Russia in the future. So, this looks like bigger victory than an actual war.

    Úlfheðinn said:
    I'd say that being a superpower is also largely about military power (and of course having a strong economy/technological base) and how far/strongly you can project your power.

    Which is why for example, I wouldn't call Russia a superpower, they don't have a military or economy that puts them anywhere near the United States (the closet country I'd say might be China).

    However, it will be interesting to see how things develop in the coming years (e.g., does China step up and try to become the US of Asia?).
    Click to expand...

    Yes, Russia is not superpower and China too. But if you look income distribution of the world, you can see that EU and US have more than %65 of the cake today. China has economic sources linked with world production and endless human resources too, Russia, Iran and Turkey have military tradition, India's trying to develop new technologies with their endless human resources. If we think these all as 'East', can we say that formula of the world paradigm moves to East from the West?
  19. Lord Raider

    Cumhurbaşkanlığı sistemi..

    carrier said:
    Lord Raider said:
    Cumhurbaşkanlığı ya da Başkanlık, bu meseleye girişmeden önce sağlam bir Türk tarihi analizi yapmak, Cumhuriyet sonrası değiştiğine inandırıldığımız Türkiye kültürünü de kapsamlı bir şekilde okumak lazım. Unutmayalım, aynalı kemer ince bele.

    Türk tarihine bakalım, herhangi bir dönemde demokratik bir süreç yaşamış mıyız? Kesinlikle hayır. Meşrutiyetlerden tutun da Cumhuriyetin ilanına dek geçen bütün demokratik girişimler bir zümrenin zorlamasıyla gerçekleşmiş. Yani Fransa'da gerçekleşen ve yüzlerce yıldır aynı kültür içerisinde evrilegelmiş Avrupa'daki demokrasi anlayışını bizimki ile karıştırmak saçmalığına düşenleri kenarı ayırın. Zira alayı menfaatleri uğruna çene patlatan saray soytarısından farksız.

    Peki, Türkler hiçbir zaman özgür olamadı mı? Elbette oldu. Hatta İslamiyet'i kabul edene kadar idame ettirdikleri 'konar-göçer' yaşam, merkezî otoritenin gücünü neredeyse sıfırlıyor, halk (yani kara budun) 'töre' dediğimiz toplum yasaları ile kendisini yönetiyordu. Bu yasalar Türklerin bağımsızlığına olan düşkünlüğünü karşılayabilecek nitelikte gelişmişti, fakat bir tarafında 'Kutlu olan soy'un (Ak budun) üstünlüğünü kabul etme eğilimini de taşırdı. Diğer taraftan İslamiyet ise her şeyden önce yerleşik medeniyeti elzem kılıyordu. Çünkü çıkış noktası, baskın bir yerleşik medeniyet olan Mekke ve Medine çevresiydi. Tarih kitaplarımızda pek yazmaz ama 'konar-göçer' olan Arap bedevileri de İslamiyet'i zorla kabul etmişlerdir. Konunun uzama ihtimali dolayısıyla bu faslı kısa kesiyorum.

    Bunların Cumhurbaşkanlığı ya da Başkanlık sistemi ile ne ilgisi var diyebilirsiniz. Yukarıda da dediğim gibi 'Aynalı kemer, ince bele'. Siz 'tiranlık zihniyeti'ni taşıyan bir halka demokrasiyi getiremezsiniz. Türkler İslamiyet öncesinde de, İslamiyet sonrasında da 'monarşik' yapılarda yaşadılar. En şatafatlı günlerini bu zamanlarda yaşadılar. Dolayısıyla kabul etseniz de etmeseniz de bu ülke, bu halk 'tek adam rejimleri'ni sever. Çünkü tarihî karakteri bununla özdeşleşmiştir. Atatürk'ün çok partili rejime geçmemesinin sebebi de budur. İnönü, Atatürk kadar yetkin olmadığından çok partili demokrasiye geçiş yapmıştır, toplumu okuyamamıştır. Ne kadar hatalı bir seçim yaptığı da Demokrat Parti'nin iktidar olmasıyla görülmüştür. Bundan sonraki süreç de birbirinin tekrarı olan sonsuz bir döngüden ibarettir.

    Bu ülkede en demokrat olduğunu söyleyenler dahi monarşik zihniyetin ağzından konuşur. Siyasetçileri dikkatli dinleyin, dedikleri aynen şu "Seni Başkan yaptırmayacağız!", "Bizim cesedimizi çiğnemeden başkan olamayacaksın!", "Ben varken demokrasi devam edecek!", vs. Yahu, dünyadaki en keskin tiranlar dahi böyle söylemler üretmez, konuşmaz. Bu lafların Hitler'in cümlelerinden ne farkı var? Dahası, bizim memleketteki siyasî görüşlerin kitleleri de karışmış durumdadır. Bütün dünyada 'sol' görüşlü kişiler düşük gelirli iken, Türkiye'de belli bir eğitim seviyesinin üstünde olan ve geliri de ortalamanın üzerinde olanlar 'sol' görüşe yakın durur. Bütün dünyada 'sağ' görüş, burjuvanın ve aristokrasinin elindeyken Türkiye'de garibanın, eğitim seviyesi düşük insanın zihniyetine işlenmiştir. Batı'nın çözümünü Türkiye'de uygulayamazsınız, tutmaz. Doğu'nun çözümünü de Batı kabul etmez. İthal olan hiçbir şey uzun soluklu yaşamaz. Türkiye demokrasiyi ithal etmiştir, yıllardır yaşanılan 'dar kemer' mevzusu hep bununla ilintilidir. Sistem bu yüzden yaşamamıştır, solunum makinesine bağımlı kalması hep bu yüzdendir. Şimdi birileri çıkıp fişini çekmek istiyor diye kızabilirsiniz, muhalefet edebilirsiniz. Fakat 'tıbben ölmüş' bir zihniyeti diriltemezsiniz.

    Zannetmeyin ki AK Parti'yi destekliyorum. Aksine her daim muhalif oldum.

    Zannetmeyin ki Cumhurbaşkanlığı ya da Başkanlık sistemini onaylıyorum. Aksine her daim karşı durdum.

    Fakat her toplumun kendine özgü bir yapısı vardır. Nasıl ki Rusya'da gerçek anlamda bir demokratik düzen tesis edilemez ise Türkiye'de de tesis edilemez.

    Her toplum hak ettiği ya da hak etmediği şekilde değil, doğasına göre yönetilir.
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    Ben buraya katılmıyorum. Dünyada baya bir fakir ya da orta halli insanlar da sağı destekliyor aslında. Amerika'yı sağ yönetiyor, Avrupa'nın çoğunda sağ hakim, kim bunları yönetime getirdi peki? Oyların çoğunluğuna kim sahipse onlar, yani orta ve fakir kesim.

    Ha gerisine katılıyor muyum? Şimdilik evet. Türk halkının doğasında bu yok, ama Türk halkının doğası şekillendirilebilir, ama bu tabi çok uzun sürecektir. Avrupa bile demokrasiyi benimseyebilmek için yüzyıllarca didindi.

    Ama bu demek değil ki başımızda biri olsun da ne olursa olsun.
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    Amerika'daki siyasî düzende iki büyük güç vardır; Demokratlar ve Cumhuriyetçiler. Dolayısıyla 'sağ' ve 'sol' ifadesi pek geçerli değil ABD için.

    Yanlış biliyorsunuz, Avrupa'da 'sağ' partilere oy veren çoğunluk üst ve bir kısım orta sınıftır. 'Sol' partiler ise genelde düşük gelirliler ve özellikle göçmenler tarafından rağbet görür.

    carrier said:
    Yani sosyal düzenlemeleri olan sağ parti olamıyor mu ben anlamadım?
    Düzenleme: olmayan değil olan yanlış yazmışım.
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    Sağ ile sol kavramını Türkiye'deki şartlar üzerinden değerlendirirseniz hataya düşersiniz. Eğer söz konusu Avrupa ise 'sağ' ve 'sol' partiler arasında insan hakları açısından değil devleti yönetme biçimi bakımından farklılıklar olur. Örneğin sağ partiler göçmenlerle ilgili daha katı kurallar koyma eğilimindedir, hatta birçoğu göçmen alınmamasına çabalar. Sol partiler ise bu konulara daha ılımlı bakar. Fakat vatandaşlarının hak ve özgürlükleri ya da sağlık hizmetleri gibi sosyal devlet algısı içerisinde yer alan hususlar ayrışan noktalar değildir. Bu konularda genel hatlarıyla mutabıktırlar. Hatta bu durum, söylem düzeyini aşamasa da Türkiye'de dahi böyledir.
  20. Lord Raider

    The Syrian Civil War. Do you support a side?

    Úlfheðinn said:
    Generally, I'd say we're still at a level where the US with all their nukes is still the champion of "we'll destroy everything if we need to".
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    This is what US thinks. Can we say that this is a reality if they say, if they think like this? Who can know Russian, Chinese, Iranian and even Turkish military developments? If Russia can meddle elections in US, can we say that Russian power is not equal with US? I think, we've already seen lots of things which shows us that US is not strong as we guess. Like a castle which made of paper.

    Úlfheðinn said:
    I think the issue for the with your concept of the "East striking back" is that there isn't really one Eastern superpower and some major "Eastern Alliance" requires a bunch of nations with vastly competing goals suddenly deciding to be friends (for example, Russia probably doesn't really want Turkey to suddenly become a regional powerhouse, much like they have zero interest in seeing Iran or China grow in power, now sure they're not above working with said countries when it benefits them, but I don't really see them creating some NATO block anytime soon).
    Click to expand...

    I didn't want to mean 'East striking back', just trying to learn your consideration about these possibilities. :smile:

    Úlfheðinn said:
    Similarly, Russia is still nowhere near as big or powerful as they were as the Soviet Union, Iran is at best a regional power (which applies for a lot of other countries like Turkey, Saudi Arabia, etc., they can project power at some regional level, but not much further beyond that), and I'd say China while definitely trying to strengthen their position as a powerhouse in Asia still has a lot of work to do before they attain US levels of superpowerness.
    Click to expand...

    Being a superpower is not related with a way which passes from the Asia. Everything is just about technology and economic resources and the East's already started to increase these two.

    Úlfheðinn said:
    Although, honestly, I think major wars between say a Western/Eastern block are pretty unlikely, there's enough economic interest for it to be pretty dumb for say China and America to fight a war. However, who knows, politicians do dumb **** when they think it will work out for them.
    Click to expand...
     

    Yes, indeed. When they saw something which has possibility to survive their political life, they can do everything.
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