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Goodbye. It was a good run.

Cant really support Floris Evolved (it is not made by us and I never looked at their code).

Do note that the maximum crew refers to players + present assigned crew. So you may be over the limit. At least IIRC.

None of this seems to address the fundamental challenge of multi-party coop, which is the clash between scene and worldmap time. The latter being massively faster than the former.

Very nicely done.

Guten Rutsch to everyone!

There are a number of additional tweaks in the FAQ and you always have the option to go with the gameplay version for a lighter load as well. 

Our FAQ addresses various performance matters: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,148144.0.html

For example
Q: I get crashes while saving a game, during or after a bigger battle or switching screens.
OR: I have a 32-bit system with more than 2GB of RAM, but I still crash.
You might want to check out this topic. In most cases this solves your problems. This is a memory fix.

Merry Christmas, you terrible lot. <3

I don't personally see the connection with oblivion, since that was essentially just a minigame of clicking the biggest possible portion of the pie at the right time. Bannerlord, on the other hand, seems to tie things to character traits developed by the player and supposedly even notable events within the world.

Then again I haven't played Oblivion in a good 10 years or so

Cut the flaming/insults, folks.

Gibby Jr said:

Duh said:

John.M said:

Bannerlord's focus for competitive play will probably be on team combat and not dueling, based on what we have seen about multiplayer so far.

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Is that a significant departure from Warband? My (albeit very limited) impression was that battle tournaments seem to have the most traction in the competitive community.

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Captain Lust actually had the opposite perspective based on Bucharest:

https://twitter.com/frankelliott_/status/868857002428071936

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That's interesting regarding the event, but does it translate to the broader tournament scene? I.e. are duel events generally more common and/or significant than team events?

I am not disagreeing with his point on battle possibly suffering from large player rosters in regards to audiences (Eladon noted on esports generally capping at 5v5). However, I don't think that this flaw of battle/team modes (harder to track all players/build a broader narrative) clashes with my thoughts on duels (harder to track what is happening). While both may have their issues, my current impression is that the former can more easily resolve or at least mitigate them. By lowering the player count and encouraging greater team consistency, providing clearer objectives or other visual cues (f.e. number of troops left) that make it easier to understand and communicate what is happening and who is responsible. It will also be interesting to see how the extension of matches through AI troops and body shifting on the one hand and respawns on the other hand will affect things. I have to admit that, personally, I enjoy the commentary on team strategy a bit more than that of duels.

Gibby Jr said:

And if you check the views on the TW youtube channel this holds up - the duel final has almost 2x the views of the Battle final. Imo this is because the wider Warband community can understand and enjoy duels, but are unfamiliar with Battle in the competitive sense. By "wider community", I mean players from mods like PW and Mercs and players from other Native servers. I know of dozens of duel players in Native that don't have TW accounts and don't know anything about "competitive battle", but watch my duel videos and know all the top duellists. On PW they all seem to know the basic list of top duellists too, but if I asked them to name the 8v8 FT roster they'd have no idea what I was talking about. I think this is because duel applies to their way of playing - individual skill is useful in every mod and every gamemode - whereas competitive battle is something they don't have any engagement with or any use for knowing about.

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Makes sense. I suppose it may also be more exciting for "outsiders" because it may seem easier to participate in duels than in team events. Similarly, I take it that part of the problem for roster recognition is that they aren't very consistent either?

Edith:

Lagstro said:

No, I can't think of any existing examples to compare it to. I don't know of a game that allows you to feint in the same way warband allows you to. It's a part of what makes warband combat unique. TW would need to build it from scratch themselves like they did with everything else they've made.

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Do you have some thoughts on how that could be achieved? I.e. what kind of animations would you feel may be suitable? Really just an open question for anyone who cares and might have an idea.

Blead said:

To add to my post, I think duels should definitely stay in the game. It is a great way of teaching you the mechanics and tricks of the game. Battles are very inconvenient to learn stuff if you are bad, because dying would result in you waiting until the match is over.

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Dev Blog 15/03/18 did note on Duels being there. I think John may have just been remarking on the (potential) lack of competitive viability if feinting was removed (rather than staying as is/being slightly altered/nerfed).

John.M said:

Bannerlord's focus for competitive play will probably be on team combat and not dueling, based on what we have seen about multiplayer so far.

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Is that a significant departure from Warband? My (albeit very limited) impression was that battle tournaments seem to have the most traction in the competitive community.

Lagstro said:

If feints were given a clear, smooth, deliberate feint animation, whilst keeping everything else about it roughly the same(speed, repeatability, etc), would you still want feints removed or drastically changed?
What are your reasons for wanting them removed, or what are the drastic changes you would make and how would they make feints a better game mechanic?

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Do you know of any good looking animation sets that could be compared to/be suitable for high-level warband feinting?

kalarhan said:

Do smaller stuff for now and learn more about how to mod with Warband, that way you will have teh skills when Bannerlord is here (whatever that is).

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Alternatively, do the unity coding tutorials. It will give you a basic grasp of C# (which will be the language for BL) and the editor is supposedly similar to the Bannerlord one.

The Warband module system will not really provide you with much in terms of Bannerlord beyond an understanding of the game world and a relatively easy entry into coding. The latter, however, suffers from it being a unique scripting language that's not used anywhere else. Not even in Bannerlord

vicwiz007 said:

And I know this may be a controversial thing to say in the face of so many staunch supporters, but I don't think M&B will ever be a well recognized E-Sport, and I don't think Taleworlds should pursue it. It's obviously a fun game to watch, but just as most people play singleplayer, most people watch the singleplayer.

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Personally, I feel the reasonable middle ground is with supporting the community in its efforts (Clans, Events, Guidance). I.e. I dont think the goal for E-Sports should necessarily be massive prize pools and millions of views - but a fun, community-driven experience.

Even putting esports aside, the pursuit of expertise can be a boon to the community at large - assuming that the experts are willing to provide guidance to players and provide feedback to the devs on the entirety of the combat experience (high-level play, but also how to get there).

I mean the question is always how far you have to deviate from the base line. There is some wiggle room for minor changes and maybe the adjustment required for offsprings to be a greater factor isn't all that much. But then again, the premise of this topic seems to be that the current setup is way too slow for them too grow up naturally.

Eladon said:

I think a very valid point that doesn't get brought up enough in regards to feinting and this 'watchability' argument is the fact that from a third person spectator angle none of the feints that I have seen/known look ridiculous, only when shown from the players point of view. Even sky-feints and the like, it is very easy when you're watching someone from the side/above to see when they switch from right swing to a thrust. From the opponents point of view it doesn't make sense - but that is entirely the point of the feint in the first place, of course it isn't going to make sense when viewed from that angle. Most duelists upload videos from their perspective for people to learn their feints and such, but even my noob friends had a great time watching Peter vs Gibby and could make sense of it no problem.

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If M&B duels were fun to watch, I would think that there would be more duel tournaments, streams, videos, coverage and, most importantly, views than there were and are

Eladon said:

I can't see how larger teams helps the E-Sports direction, every popular E-Sport game has a maximum of five players a side. Objectives could help, certainly, but we already had battle and that served more than well. Throwing 20 AI behind every player doesn't make it better to watch, it makes it bad, that's a direct dig at Captain Mode which I am honestly so sad they have put so much time into at this point, the population that play modded AI leading gamemodes in Warband is tiny compared to everything else.

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I worded that poorly. My intention wasn't to argue for more players but simply to note on the potential of the captain mode. A team fight rather than an individual duel can be more enjoyable for a casual audience. Not only because it can be easier to understand and/or communicate what is happening, but also because it adds extra layers of play to the match. In battle (which I believe is more popular amongst viewers) this means that coordination with others is suddenly a huge factor. In captain mode this (hopefully) means that commanding becomes another significant factor. Now, that doesn't mean Captain mode should be the primary competitive mode (afaik that's skirmish anywho), but I do believe that it might hold a fair bit of value. As you said, most succesful Esports have around 5 players, however, some have certainly also had a quite some success with the introduction of AI.

dragon idiot said:

Isn't captains mode just an attempt to MOBA-ise bannerlord's mp? like the ai would be the equivalent of the bots (creeps i think they are called) in dota 2. imo the comp modes for bl should be 5v5 battle and duel tho

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There may be similarities but I don't think it's the same. Captain Mode has character shifting but no real respawns in the sense of additional units coming. Then again I never really played any MOBA and there may be some like that.

Terco_Viejo said:

The only video of the recent Gamescom that is worth it (for me) is the one that Duh did

...the other recorded ones you can burn them with gasoline (even the official...not by Taleworlds but by the interviewers...you can't be more useless; a little previous documentation... can't you?). With it we could unravel undisclosed information that we didn't even find in five devblogs together.

I had to say it, now you can continue with your e-sports talk...

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Thanks for the flattery, but I suck at fighting

NPC99 said:

Gibby Jr said:

...I hope that by dumbing down Warband's feinting system and reducing player control Bannerlord does become more accessible and the player base sustains itself for longer as a result.

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+1. I’m not a multiplayer let alone a duelist, but Warband/M&B has always accomodated different interest groups and I hope Bannerlord continues that tradition and takes it further into full E-Sports. I’m sure Bucharest was a statement of future intent.

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One of the big challenges for Esports is that the game in question needs to be both fun to play and fun to watch. I.e. while the feinting in Warband may very well enable an incredibly high skill ceiling, it may actually be a detriment to casual audiences, (which are the bulk of viewers,) because they have no idea about what is happening in a confrontation. A move towards tamer feints, larger teams (captain mode) and objectives (skirmish) may thus be beneficial in this regard (assuming the game remains fun to play - even if some aspects are "dumbed down" slightly.)

Similarly, while feinting may be a boon to the skill ceiling, the current level may also be an issue with the learning curve. There was this nice illustration:
Ideally, this is something the competitive community can support developers with in the EA/Beta period (whenever that is) so that the ceiling remains high, but the curve is more accessible.

RoboSenshi said:

That means if the game wasn't designed to have the time passage tweaked it would be a giant heap of work or near impossible to mod?

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Yeah. And development of a commercial product is, of course, also faced with a different set of challenges than modding in that it is supposed to deliver a largely enjoyable, balanced, polished, etc experience at release, which makes fundamental changes to the core game at a late stage of development quite unattractive. Imo that is especially true for a game like M&B that revolves so strongly around systemic design, long gameplay loops and emergent gameplay (i.e. that no playthrough is the same and the world lives and evolves with and without player input) because... it is really quite difficult to tell what will happen if you change things around. (When we introduced bandit heroes into floris, which is a fairly minor change in comparison, it came with an unforeseen chance of massive bandit or manhunters hoards in the late game - because individual bandit parties would follow and fight alongside the hero party, which led to larger encounters and then either increased their survivability, freed prisoners, etc or boosted the manhunters to a level they could have never reached otherwise. Barely noticable in early to mid game. Massive change to late game.)

Having said that, I do believe that modders could achieve a redesign/recreation of the world - if given the technical ability. Remaking the original game with a different gameplay speed in mind would certainly be a daunting task and maybe impossible in terms of retaining the original experience, but if we are given freedom to change speed, UI and world logic... folks could just create a different game. One that better suits the flow of time and/or has a more viable scope. At that point it's just a question of skill and desire. (I.e. If you are really completely departing from the M&B formula... why not just use unity/unreal/etc?)

RoboSenshi said:

I certainly hope they do that. It would be incredibly boring if you could still just steamroll the entire map once your kingdom becomes invincible. We're still waiting to the extent of kingdom politics.

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Maybe I do think the world will be more complex overall. With the clans and kingdom politics. But the current passage of time (from what we have seen/heard... maybe it was changed) somewhat speaks against CK 2 level dynamics. Because the majority of players won't play that long.

You are unlikely to find someone that will teach you without a more proactive stance on your part. (Well unless you are looking to pay someone.)

You attract support and help by pursuing specific projects and specific questions, which showcase that you have put in some legwork. Alternatively, you can join an existing team and learn through supporting them.

Having said that, welcome to M&B modding nonetheless