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https://youtu.be/OyW_dnQjUdM

Definitely leadership and discipline.

What you want is John Butler Mr Saladin.

Mage246 said:

Why are they better at it though? Perhaps because they made a conscious decision to pursue a policy of indoctrination? Whereas on the Israeli side it is a simple byproduct of a requirement for constant military vigilance.

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This tends to turn towards indoctrination incrementally by the education of the youth.

Mage246 said:

@Weaver

Ethnic cleansing doesn't work either, for the same reason. You have to demonstrate intent to get rid of the population.

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You're forgetting culture, religion, language and among many other things that make up a person's identity. Since no side in this conflict has love or respect for the other and I've yet to see Israel's benevolance in integrating (not assimilation by the way) others into their society, ethnic cleansing seems to be the most possbile outcome in the long run for either Arabs or Jews.

Probably this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Suiyang

rejenorst said:

Hamdillilah (or however it is spelt) means praise be to god and inshallah (spelling?) is used extensively in the middle east throughout small talk and means 'God Willing' as Saladin mentioned. I would expect that in religious circles it would be used even more widely and extensively in small talk etc.

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It's a very common phrase, though what you say is right. The breaking down of the word is "El hamd el Allah" which roughly means "God be praised". Very similiar to Hallelujah. Inshallah means "If God is willing". You can hear those phrases from people that are not really that religious as well. Even from Christians in Turkey.

By the way, I'm doubtful about what they mean with Caliphate. It may not be used within the same conext as it was used in the late 19th century by the Ottoman rulers. As the words caliph, caliphate were mostly used to describe a ruler and state. They might simply be saying to the world that they have formed a state and declared indepedence.

*awaits beta backer forumites in silence*

Has anybody seen the new update?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1473965863/sui-generis/posts/881509

It's not just for PKK. Turks care a lot about the unity of the nation that even though this is a good thing, some people take it to its extremities that they go paranoid. But that's not the case for PKK as it is obvious that they don't support unity.

The Dark Robin said:

Trying to protect the sovereignty of Kurdistan.

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Not to mention cutting essentially two sequel projects before reaching an agreement in doing this game.

"They killed Yevgeny, bastards!" or the way combat engineers say "Securing the objective" is my two favourite quotes from the game.

Although nothing beats "Hah, they're scratching your paint job Helmut!" from CoH1.

The Dark Robin said:

So you're basically saying you're ****ed and fine with it because there are some idiots who legitimately support the AKP?

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What do you ****ing want any opponent of AKP to do, kill them?

Well, as Anthropoid said, there are civilian deaths in every war, and the PKK is fighting for a more just cause than many other wars are fought for.

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Taliban also had a just cause by your logic, but what happened next? They became a nuisance for the US as they were only meant to play their part as a buffer to Soviet influence. You're short on wits as Goker said if civilian casulties do not bother you. If we deem ourselves advanced, civilian casulties and especially violence itself makes any struggle unjust.

Are we in the US terrorists for killing civilians in Afghanistan? We routed Al-Qaeda from the country and later killed Osama Bin Laden.

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You're just making me imagine some terrorist pop up on where you live and the US troops see you as "collateral damage" while trying to get rid of the problem.

Gestricius said:

So what kind of political ideology does these guys have?
Pretty obvious that it's left wing but more specifically. 

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Their origins date back to the tensions in the 70s. There were a lot of student left organizations going on, protests and such. More importantly I believe it was the most polarized times in the history of modern Turkey. Left wingers and right wingers were forming bands in the streets, killing each other. Even the police were polarized, rather than keeping the order intact, left leaning police groups left the left winger people unchecked while the right leaning groups done the same. I'm not really an expert on that matter, but since my father and mother saw and experienced the tensions first-hand, I know a bit just like any other person in their 20s. In 1980 the generals staged a coup and martial law was being enforced till the things "reverted" back to normal.

Now what's that has to do with PKK? It's simple, left leaning students were seen as anarchists, some of them really were but some of them had good views, and even though the coup was aimed to bring peace to everybody, the left leaners were ultimately the victim. Many young people were tortured or executed as a result. (See: Turkey's place as a member of NATO)

PKK was just like any other left wing party just like any other organization formed by leftist students at the time. Predominantly Kurdish, their ultimate goal was to increase welfare of the eastern regions of Turkey where Kurds were the majority. Well, when the coup happened, it also hit PKK hard. Now after that, I don't really know how things evolved but I guess they took more offense than the other left groups and thought Kurds altogether were the victim. And after that, terrorism started to take its place.

Long story short, when they mean liberty, freedom and justice they actually mean Kurdish nationalism.

The Dark Robin said:

And I'm skeptical of those numbers anyway, if they came from the AKP.

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PKK terrorism is an ongoing thing since the beginning of '80s, so no.

Anthropoid said:

The real problem here is that we have entered the "Post-Peace of Westphalia" era of world history. This produces ambiguities which our late Renaissance notions of international relations cannot reconcile.

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Who is we? I don't remember Turkey being involved in the Peace of Westphalia. That only covers Europe and as far as I know, the problems regarding the topic itself can date back to the first World War. It is noteworthy to point out that most European persons consider WW1 as if it ony happened between European powers, which is a bit ironic, considering its effects on the Ottoman nations and the region itself.

It's a social phenomenon that people laugh at people who trip and fall, can't blame him. I'd have laughed too if my country was all nice and cozy, most of the time.

Monster laptopları ağır oluyor. Özünden yanlış bir durum bu. İlgilenenler için notebookcheck adında bir site var, çok faydalı bilgiler bulabilirsiniz. Şu an bir laptop almayı düşünüyorsanız MSI GT ya da GS serisinden bir laptop almanızı öneririm Monster'a kıyasla. Yoksa biraz daha fiyatların düşmesini bekleyebilirsiniz.

I don't agree on the government's attitude towards PKK nor towards Kurds too, however if you brand yourself as leading an independence movement you'd do well not to inflict harm on innocents. I gotta admit I used to agree that violence can be considered an act against oppression, especially if that was an independence movement, till I learned about the movement of the Crimean Turks, and also John Stuart Mill's views on liberty.

If you guys are interested, I suggest you take a look at the deportation of Crimean Turks and Mustafa Dzhemilev's struggle because of the rarity of his motives as being non-violent right from its start till this day.

Yeah, didn't bother much but his latest posts had something to do with racism, too I guess.

I was only stating that if there's a rule that enforces the capital punishment by forum standards then it shouldn't be tolerated at all, which wasn't the case for that guy. Otherwise I also support freedom of speech in rather sensitive matters as well.