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  1. badbuckle

    v1.2.4-v1.2.5 Balance Changes

    Hey, because its a highly preferred weapon already before the 1.2.4 changes, decided to rollback the changes and make it a bit more balanced by decreasing its length and damage. In current situation it's more in a balanced state alongside with other axes.
    Of course if it feels like too much, let us know and we will take a look at it again to find a suitable spot.
  2. badbuckle

    v1.2.4-v1.2.5 Balance Changes

    Hello everyone, thank you for your feedback on Beta v1.2.4 MP changes - we’ve done a number of changes based on it. These changes are being included with the most recent Beta Patch v1.2.5 which is already accessible on Steam. The lobby and servers are open so feel free to test it all out!

    We increased penalties for horse riding of non-cavalry classes. All the previous penalties, which were set at around 20%, were increased to 30%. We also increased the weapon inaccuracy multiplier from 40% to 1500%, to make it sensible in-game.

    • Introduced further ranged weapon penalties to non-mounted classes when riding. If a class has 0 riding skill, the below penalties will apply. These are then reduced and eventually removed when a class reaches 100 or above riding skill.
      • Increased reload speed penalty and weapon readying speed penalty from 20% to 30%
      • Increased the time needed to achieve maximum accuracy by increasing the penalty from 20% to 30%
      • Increased the weapon inaccuracy multiplier from 40% to 1500% which will significantly widen the crosshair

    We also heard your concerns about the dismounting feature and fine tuned it into a more viable and functional state.

    We tweaked the get-up animation, which is used right after dismounting. From now on, players will get up faster and can use their block ability while trying to get up. With this change, we are trying to give dismounted players an opportunity to protect themselves, and not getting one-shot killed everytime they get dismounted.

    • Increased the animation speed of getting up after being dismounted. You can now also start blocking at an earlier point while getting up.

    Many of you stated that cavalry classes became hard to play and a lot weaker with the recent changes. Both because of the lower dismount resistances and dismounting weapons being hard to notice. That’s why we increased the dismount resistance values of cavalry classes to a point where they have a distinct advantage in comparison to their non-cavalry counterparts.

    To make the readability of dismounting weapons a lot more clear, we’ve changed the perk-based dismounting system (where players have the ability to dismount by choosing specific perks) to a more weapon based system. From now on, all of the two-handed axes and maces have the dismounting ability. So if you see someone wielding a huge two handed weapon, you need to watch out for them. There are only 2 extra weapons that are excluded from this rule, Glaives and Longer Menavlions. Both of them being huge weapons, it will be hard for you to miss them!

    • Increased dismount resistances of cavalry classes:
      • Light Cavalry: Increased from 50 to 75
      • Heavy Cavalry: Increased from 70 to 85
      • Horse Archers: Increased from 70 to 80
    • Only the following weapons now have the ability to dismount players:
      • All two-handed axes (including alternative usage axes)
      • All two-handed maces
      • Glaive (heavy and normal) and Longer Menavlion


    To make things balanced with the newly adjusted dismounting feature and make cavalry have different tanky options, we changed the “Long Axe and Shield” perk of Druzhinnik to a more defensive perk named “Unbreakable“.
    • Swapped the Sturgia Heavy Cavalry (Druzhinnik) "Long Axe and Shield" perk with "Unbreakable". The new perk features are:
      • Stronger shield
      • 15% Melee and Ranged damage reduction

    With the latest axe adjustments, Imperial Heavy Axe was also buffed with v1.2.4. Because it made an already good weapon a lot stronger, we reverted the latest buff to it and instead gave it a bit of weakening touch to make things balanced between the weapon options.
    • Imperial Heavy Axe:
      • Decreased damage from 88 to 82
      • Decreased length from 82 to 69 (reverted v1.2.4 change)

    Other Multiplayer changes/fixes that were also included with the v1.2.5 patch:

    Crashes
    • Fixed a server crash that occurred at the end of the match.
    • Fixed a client crash that occurred after failing to connect to a custom server.

    Fixes
    • Fixed a bug that allowed you to cancel the reload animation for bows and throwing weapons.
    • Fixed a bug that prevented damage speed bonuses from being correctly calculated.
    • Fixed a bug that prevented some perk effects from being applied.
    • Fixed the incorrect reload speed value of "Replenished" and weapon damage bonus of "Strong Arm" perks according to their descriptions.
    • Fixed a bug that prevented the map version on the Map Downloader popup from being correctly displayed, leading to false warnings.
    • Fixed a bug that corrupted the terrain visuals when re-downloading a scene with the Map Downloader.
    • Fixed a bug that caused spectators to be listed as team members on the HUD.

    Changes
    • Updated the matchmaking rules to support populating existing games to full capacity during the warmup phase.
    • Added the ability to mark custom servers as favorites.
    • Added the ability to set tickrate for dedicated custom servers using the "/tickrate" command line argument or the "set_server_tickrate" console command.
    • Players now need to download all missing maps being played on the server via the Map Downloader before joining.
  3. badbuckle

    v1.2.4-v1.2.5 Balance Changes

    flashn00b said:
    I wouldn't be surprised if Vlandia still remains to be good at everything tbh.

    I personally haven't had too many issues playing as or against Khuzait myself, though I think what Sturgia needs regarding buffs is additional blunt weapons, since one can already imagine the outcome of a Sturgia v Vlandia matchup

    Unfortunately, TaleWorlds seems insistent on making the Varyag an axe specialist. I think blunt weapons can come in the form of Brigand and Hunter buffs.

    Brigand could probably get a small baton similar to the Khuzait Infantry Club as an "Improved Armor" weapon, where it's sub-optimal against light infantry, shock troops, and light archers

    Hunter because the Sturgian Sword from the Shield perk downgrades the Raider Axe. Being able to deal blunt damage might be worth not having a longbow.
    Click to expand...
    Got my eye on Sturgia aswell. No worries :shifty:
    TheCrusader5 said:
    Think most of these changes are positive. The cav dismount mechanic for me could be interesting if done well, it will punish archers and inf that mount horses. I agree with Hancock that cav might wanna get a little more resistance. The only other concern I have is the jav change, the stun while being non intuitive was a good mechanic that punished people for being greedy. If you believe that mechanic was bad for new players than you need something else to discourage people from having javs held all the time.
    Click to expand...
    Thank you, well it was changed because it felt really unnatural to limit people using their shields really. If it creates an unbalanced upperhand to skirmishers, we could always take a look at the damage outputs and try to make it proper there ^^
    HancockT35 said:
    Renamed the bows given by the Steppe Bow Khuzait class’ individual perks and slightly modified their statistics.
    Renamed 3 spears (Khuzait Long Infantry Spear, Sturgian Long Infantry Spear, Battanian Long Infantry Spear) provided with the Cavalry Breaker perks and slightly adjusted their statistics.

    Would it be possible to know what about their statistics got changed?
    Click to expand...
    Nothing major really, melees are almost not changed ( like +1 -1 kind of stat changes ) and bows on the other hand having kind of an advantage for their accuracy and based on their primary bow stats ( speed and damage mainly. ) to make them different then any other standard bows.
  4. badbuckle

    v1.2.4-v1.2.5 Balance Changes

    vfkaseke said:
    Making throwing more accurate and harder to punish makes me afraid we're going to slide back to the Jereed meta where people were running around with 24 Jereeds and nothing else. Throwing axes deal ALOT of damage to things such as horses, and are very easy to hit even at the moment. I guess an accuracy buff isn't the worst thing to make them more consistent, and the shield damage nerf is honestly pretty great combined with that. The total damage on those things is criminal in the right circumstances though.

    I'm also a bit worried about the horse dismount mechanic, especially on light cav. With 70 damage required on heavy cavalry, I don't see it being as impactful, but 50 for light cav is a pretty normal number to see in cav duels, and will most likely make cavalry avoid those more and more as time goes on. And on the topic of cav, it's really hard to tell at this point how the riding skill changes are gonna change things, but archers on horses continue to be a problem, and I don't really see this fixing it. We will have to see though.

    I find the Imperial Heavy axe length change curious. It will either be a major buff to one of the best infantry classes in the game, or it will inadvertently nerf the unit due to causing them to actually hilt hit like some of the other axes. Right now the Legionary is THE best heavy infantry in closed spaces and amazing at hugging other units due to the speed and short length of their axes.

    I also don't think improving the hunter perk for archers is a necessary change. Archer is already the best counter to cav running rampant on the field, and this will only make it easier to one or two hit horses. Especially with Vlandian crossbows, which will almost guarantee a one hit on a horse coming towards you.
    Click to expand...
    Thanks so much for the explanations, having good points there!
    I'm aware of throwing weapon damage issues. With the beta results, we can easily decrease the damages if needed, especially for the throwing axes.
    Non-cav archers will have a lot of penalties on horse so basically being on foot instead will be a better option for them. And also, they will easily get dismounted because their resistances are really low. So i don't think it will cause any issues. About light cavs, there are a lot of feedbacks there, will take a look at that.
    Axes in general still need a bit of adjustment, so i'll look up to Imperial heavy axe with the others again. My main concern was actually making it a bit useless on closed spaces and encourage to use it in a different way. It may be problematic tho, i can understand that :grin: Hunter perk tho, well, archer damage on horses itself are not enough to create an upper-hand for the ranged classes, along with the new changes. So if we end-up having re-adjustments, i'll take another look at that if needed :smile:
    troechka33 said:
    I dont know what people expect from 1 guy, he buffed sturgia and khuzait (2 lowest wr factions) and did slight vlandia nerf.
    Horses buffed, hunter perk buffed as a counter weight.
    Horse knockdown - good change, as 13 damage threshhold was reached so rarely people actually though knockdown was removed from the game entirely.
    Rider dismount - that is a questionable change. Of course it depends on the chances to dismount but once again lifts the value of the light cav above heavy option. Why would you go heavy cav if you can be dismounted by cheaper class in 1 random 20 damage hit...
    Anyway, patch is in the right direction, keep it up!
    Click to expand...
    Thanks for the kind words ^^
    ViciousFate said:
    Not gonna comment on the other things, as it is fair to change things and worth a "test" if not prolonged if it isn't fit and a nice surprise seeing mp getting updates.

    The only thing i worry about, from a skirmish viewpoint, the empire axe is already very good, high damage against heavy armor and 1 shot if it's a headshot on majority light units and really easy to "spam" with because of swing speed.

    Making the axe better would rule out all the other options for the empire heavy unit, its nice having the choice between mace, sword and axe. Where they all have their own role, like breaking shields, damaging high armor units, etc, instead of one being better than all.
    Not to mention the fact that the empire axe is already one of the better weapons to pick from, besides its reach, which was the only thing that made it "balanced enough" for me.
    Click to expand...
    yea got a lot of questions with this. I'll definetly keep that in mind.
  5. badbuckle

    v1.2.4-v1.2.5 Balance Changes

    rammler1991 said:
    Why did vlandian sergeant got his armor nerf? Vlandia already has the lowest armored units. The sergeant has the lowest armor of all t6 infantry troops i think. I would rather buff them than nerf them
    Click to expand...
    I'm not sure if you are confused these changes with SP but if not, sergeant was having best armor amongst the other heavy inf units :grin:
    Krisee said:
    Stab nerf is good.
    Cav dismounting thing is bad.
    The knockdowns you couldve done without adding bump damage. This is a double buff where only singular may be needed.
    Horse hunter perk buff? ehh
    A 20% penalty on both melee and ranged parameters listed below is applied at 0 Riding skill (with the exception of the Ranged accuracy penalty which starts at 40%). These penalties are then scaled down as the Riding skill rises towards 100.
    i mean this is good i guess.

    Also archers will be better riding mounted than before? why?? that isnt a good change at all. Should be harder. Correct me if it is the other way around.
    Click to expand...
    Thanks for the feedbacks ^^ No actually non-cav archers having a really bad time with all the riding penalties now. It is the other way around :smile:
    HancockT35 said:
    If you guys want to keep the dismount mechanic, it instantly feels very noticeable that the Light Cav number is to low imo. Id change that to 70 and heavy cav to like 85. But Iv done 0 testing and just kinda looking at it.
    Click to expand...
    Yep will take a look at it again if people continue to have problem with the Light cav units.
  6. badbuckle

    v1.2.4-v1.2.5 Balance Changes

    gellertt said:
    ...
    we have a tourney ongoing,and this kind of changes im speaking behalf myself, i dont want this type of "variety"

    all i could ask is nerfing archers mounting cavs, and stab damage (preferably pierce, its already done tho)
    ...
    Click to expand...
    I can understand that your opinion on adding "variety" and its like a personal opinion i can accept, but some of the concerns you are having is not accurate because you are just talking in regards of the numbers/explanations that are given.
    I'm ok with your opinion and feedbacks on dismount, cause it's, well, pretty explanatory with its name only :p but for example, about knockdowns, the actual changes are soo little that even if i didn't mention them on the changelog, you may probably missed it in the actual gameplay.
    So that's why i'm asking you guys to test it out before making any decisions.
    Other than that, i'm completely open for feedbacks and changing the problematic parts in regards of players' concerns, no problem :smile:
    Elwaen said:
    Update for siege player.

    Useless for competitive play.
    Add double spam
    Make the chambers work
    Improve the shots to balance the game. The shots are the enemies of the cavs. This will make the cav less strong. The projectiles must go faster. The shoots need to be slower. When we aim we have to be able to change the target without our viewfinder becoming as big as our ****.
    Removing this crappy shield system, we can't change sides quickly enough, so when we're in 2vs1. We can't block right then left (which is what they wanted us to do). We have to block direction down to mid and that doesn't protect well.
    The sound of the game bug we can't hear the cavs well
    Weapon switches are too slow (especially in archer)
    You have to do only battle 1 life in competitive mode
    Make sure we can choose our equipment or do good perks because it's not as much **** as before but it's still ****.
    The reverse animation system creates a lot of problems.
    You have to put back bumps because the cavs can't teamplay like on warband. And it slides under the horse
    In a cav duel you can't do a feint. Feints are slower than the guy spamming.
    This is due to a general problem with the game. The Hold mechanic is useless. Having your move already ready compared to someone who is spamming doesn't give you a big enough advantage in terms of speed. The guy in front can spam and outrun you. It is not normal. Holder a shot should give the advantage to the one who has his ready shot.

    Bottom hits do too much damage between 70 and 90 in the head. It's way too much.

    Kicks with a shield should be longer, it's too easy to kick slash a guy.
    The inverted anim system gives strange visual renderings in competitive.

    The ² key is too long when you release it to return the camera. So you can't see behind as well as on warband. So difficult to block the cavs.

    A poke should stop the opponent's move even if it does little damage, because it punishes the player who has the best timing. In a competitive game, the player who has the best timing should not be punished because of the game's RNG. In a duel cav, it can make you die and it's totally random. If I hit before I poke and the opponent doesn't. I die when I just got better and the game punishes me for it. In a competitive game this is not possible.
    There must only be one faction that has javelins like on Warband. Today all factions except Vlandia have javelins. It's overused, it causes too much damage and it's uninteresting to have people throwing things at each other rather than fighting.

    The shield should better protect the feet of the infs. Already because if we improve the shots to counter the overpowering cav, it will be too easy to kill an inf just by aiming at its feet. On warband the shield protected better and doing leg shots had to be good and it was rare (I used it often but here it's abused as it's simple).

    The ranked system sucks. We would have to put back random skirmish without ranked and for ranked make a captain system which picks the players according to the stats he sees from them (like on the warband matchmaking). Captains are appointed from among the players with the highest ELO. There are not enough players in the game for an algorithm that makes teams according to MMR, and there are too many parameters to take into account. There are versatile players who are good in all classes and others who are terrible outside of a class. The simplest thing is to let humans decide based on what they know about the players and the stats they can see on them.
    You have to put the perfect blocks back
    There are major hit box issues (sometimes you pass through an enemy without doing him any damage, sometimes you hit an ally behind him. This probably comes from the inverted animation). People slip under horses. There are elements of the decor that have too large a hit box, which blocks arrows or horses on invisible things.

    There is an aimoffset problem. It's too slow, or it makes the animations buggy (aimoffset abuser).

    The spearmans are too slow with their spear against the cavs. They also don't have much more range, which means that a pikeman facing two cavs can't do anything. Or in an inf fight we often poke. It's too random.

    The damage on the horses of infantry and archers is too much. It's because TW wanted to nerf the cav, but in the end it doesn't work. It's just ridiculous, you can be dismounted in one hit by a guy who isn't even aiming at you.
    If we improve the archers, the cavs will be much less effective in the inf fight to do damage and we should deal less damage to the horses.

    Currently even with a paper horse you can arrive at full speed, one shoot a guy. Leave and come back in one shot one. It's lousy gameplay, because it's almost just luck. You can make a massacre in one round and the next round be an instant dismount. In addition there is no skill to go around the map at full speed.

    Whereas if we made the bumps more useful like on warband to help our infs (if we take less damage on the horses it will be interesting to teamplay with his inf to make a bump which will help him), the stronger shoots ( you should put your shield on like on warband and be careful not to get headshot). This will emphasize decision-making and not going all out and spamming moves.
    Click to expand...
    There are some cool feedbacks to look up, even they are not related with the current changes :grin: So i'll note them up to investigate furthermore.
    Some points i disagree with tho, firstly, most of these changes are actually gathered from competitive scene feedbacks. So regardless some of the newly introduced things are hard to "get used to" , most of them actually will fix unbalanced situations that especially causing problems on the competitive events. ( khuzait being underpowered, abusing stab animations, head&neck pierce damage multiplier etc. )
    Secondly, i can understand that you could having hard time with some systems, like shields, kick slashes, shields not protecting feets etc. But these are some of the things that defines the games "feel" Like they are not altered or anything, this is how it is in the core gameplay :grin: Not all shields should cover the feet, cause well, then infantry will be invincible or you should get kicked and damaged *if* you are not paying enough attention. These are the things that adding dimensions and flavor to the game basically. So i'm not sure if all of the things you mentioned are fixable when it comes to that :smile: Thanks for all the comments, i'll take notes from problematic situations you've mentioned.
  7. badbuckle

    v1.2.4-v1.2.5 Balance Changes

    CaptainFracas said:
    As a guy who organizes big events with formations, I really like the idea of those changes 👐 (didn't test those yet). Having cavalry formations being able to charge through inf formations with more power at the cost of making it more challenging for cav players when doing so against pike formations seems very fun to me ☝
    Click to expand...
    Thank you, tried to keep balance between cavalry and infantry players while doing the changes at most :smile:
    Allias said:
    Short bows and throwing axes are spot on if you just click left mouse, which is a bug. Not a single time have they gone anywhere other than right in the middle of the screen, not even while jumping when throwing them, that needs to be looked on, along with the ballerina strikers who spin their bodies and still hit you for 30-50 damage without a chance to react.
    Click to expand...
    On our tests, because the accuracy of throwing axes were really bad, players having a really hard time to use them "meaningfully" and also it was looking like a useless weapon with that kind of an accuracy penalty. The main concern was making it usable in a natural feeling.
    The damage of them actually re-calculated and decreased a little bit. If it becomes kind of overpowered at any point, we can always check back the damage calculations and adjust them a bit more without a problem.
    tom54p said:
    Could you please fix the khuzait infantry shield hitbox while you're at it.
    Any archer can shoot khuzait infantry in the head when he's actively using the middle block, it really needs some work.
    Click to expand...
    I'm on it. Will try to test it out and see if we have a problem with the hitbox or not.
  8. badbuckle

    v1.2.4-v1.2.5 Balance Changes

    gellertt said:
    re-adding dismount mechanic that everyone hated back (y)

    buffed cavs even more with knockdowns and charge damages (y)

    no info about fixing matchmaking (y)

    some buffs to cursed sturgian throwing axe (y)

    decreased fighting speed (y)


    TALEWORLDS AS ALWAYS
    Click to expand...
    - I know people had bad experiences with dismount before but we come up with a proper system that doesn't feel like it randomly happens, have rules, resistances and already working mechanic. So please test it out first, maybe you'll like it in the end.

    - Knockdowns and knockbacks for horse charges are up and running already, we didn't change how they work. Also knockdowns don't really happening all the time, even if you get enough damage from a horse, the horse should facing you in a required angle, also had enough speed etc. to actually make a successfull knockdown. In the end, this is really a minor change when it comes to in-game balances.

    - Matchmaking fixing is not a balance change. This is a balance thread. As far as i know there are improvements on that, but you can find detailed info on the patch notes on Steam.

    - I have no idea what do you mean by cursed. If you are indicating that throwing axes functioning bad, i think it should be correct to buff them? If not, there were lot of feedbacks towards throwing axes have really bad accuracy and cannot be used as they are intented. So with these changes ( + their speed bonus ) you'll get proper damages, a working accuracy and also feel more " natural " with the related animations.

    - Again, i have no idea how did you decided these changes will decrease the fighting speed in anyways without testing them :sad:
  9. badbuckle

    v1.2.4-v1.2.5 Balance Changes

    v1.2.4 Changes Hello warriors! With patch Beta v1.2.4 we’re introducing a number of Multiplayer balance changes based on the analytics data and the feedback you’ve provided to us here on the forums, Discords and elsewhere. The lobby has been opened on Beta alongside a number of servers -...
  10. badbuckle

    Why is cav Knockdown in Multi ???

    Hey! As far as i understood these were added some months ago and never became active until this patch. I personally think this could be a nice feature for the MP but not at this current state, because obviously it is not balanced at all.
    Good thing is it only effects some lances for now, will talk with some people and decide what to do - technically - asap.

    Thanks for the feedbacks!
  11. badbuckle

    Remove snow on duel map

    Just to let you know, this one is fixed now. Snow is gone : )
  12. badbuckle

    Need More Info Silent cav

    Just to let you know, i'm gathering all the videos you all provided and will talk/work over them with the team. I think noone able to reproduce this issue on testing processes so we will try to find a pattern out of all videos and come up with a way to deal with the problem. I'll follow the progress and give you an update whenever i can.
    Thanks for all the info and patience (y)
  13. badbuckle

    7 new maps, Ranked and Battle mode, hundreds of balance changes

    Me reading all the comments.
    thisisfine.jpg

    Jokes aside, thanks for all the welcoming messages and comments. I am gathering all the questions at the moment, will talk over them with my colleagues and try to come up with certain answers, asap.
  14. badbuckle

    7 new maps, Ranked and Battle mode, hundreds of balance changes

    Hi everyone!

    First of all, thank you all for the warm welcome! Also i want to thank @NIN3 for the hard work, and wishing all the luck for the future endeavors. I’ll be happy to see you around any time, thank you!

    It's very nice to see so many people are really interested in multiplayer and how it develops, also very encouraged to give helpful feedbacks and basically try to help out. I’m also planning to stay in touch with the community and get as many comments as possible at all times.

    About the upcoming patch 1.7.2, even though Paul did a great job explaining all the details in the changelog, if you have any questions/comments, feel free to communicate and i'll try my best to contact back with solutions/answers as much as i can.

    Thank you all for the welcomes again! :party:
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