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Also crushthrough need to go

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The concept of crush through doesn't even make much sense from a believable combat perspective anyway. "Blocks" are almost universally deflections or covering of an attack anyway, which if anything favor the defender if more force and follow through is committed. If an attacker is crushing through and causing injury, you messed up something.

Group I'm with fired up MP for the first time, mostly Captain mode. Which we found a blast. But within a couple rounds we also found ourselves running almost exclusively 2H like glaives and just laughing out loud at how OP they seem, especially running around on horseback--there doesn't seem to be much point in running anything but these--biggest downfall is the tendency to kill your own troops and teammates as much as the enemy. One handers were meanwhile dishing out a small fraction of the damage. It does seem a little extreme.

Agreed here; the advantage spears should have on foot is just non-existent, and the thrusts are waaay to slow. I get exaggerating attacks a bit so that there is some room for signaling and body language over the network, but these are comical. Anyone who has ever been on the wrong end of a spear in any kind of martial art can tell you that they sure do not feel slow, and are a pain in the ass when you are trying to get inside of one with a stubby little sword.

Congratulations! Thank you so much for your persistence and vision. This release is a huge milestone in my mind, not just for Tale Worlds but the best part of PC gaming's future with independent development. Best of luck!

I have however fought wooden waster axes, and I've fought people who are roughly four times my strength who are using one handed steel axes. To reiterate, I've yet to be knocked over or backwards by anyone using an axe.

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I'd just like to say that during training with people of similar frame/strength to myself or smaller, using six foot staff, bokken, even shinai, I've been knocked down quite often when I attempt to parry with poor rooting and/or alignment. It's not a question of the weapon's size or the attacker's strength as it is an understanding of body mechanics, timing, and follow through. If someone supports their attack with good footwork and structure, and your feet aren't in the right place, you will be dumped on your butt whether it was by a fingertip or a giant sledgehammer (its just a little more likely with the latter  )

I'm really curious about this steel weapon fighting. Sounds like loads of fun, but do you seriously attack each other with the full and sincere conviction of destroying each others' lives?

Ah, I honestly hadn't done much foot combat until now. I see that it sort of does. Nifty 

Does it apply to NPCs as well? They seem to have an uncanny ability to all thrash you simultaneously.

Friendly fire on all weapons would get ridiculous, but I would really like to see slashing attacks STOPPED by friendly troops. There is a reason you use thrusting attacks and high guard/downward cuts in battlefield fighting arts. Lateral slashes are about the dumbest thing you could do standing in formation with other soldiers.

I could live with thrusts not being blocked by friendly bodies, since trained soldiers could reasonably do so around each other. But if this were the case, I believe enlaring the movement collision boxes between friendlies would be just as important for tactical reasons. If you have a very short spear or sword, it should be difficult if not impossible to reach around an ally and strike an opponent. Long polearms would become more useful for that situation, since the front line would act as a shield and you could still reach with thrusts from your own weapons.

Vertical slashes might be stopped, but would still be very useful standing shoulder to shoulder with allies.

I agree that you should be able to keep your shield up and thrust at the same time.

Also like the idea of overdamage going into the next guy on slashing attacks. It is possible to cleave all the way through a human torso. There was a period of time when the Japanese would test new swords on condemned prisoners or cadavers, and indicate how MANY bodies they were able to cut through in a single swing. If you're skillfully swinging around a giant meat cleaver on a pole against a tightly packed group of unarmoured people, it's not unreasonable for you to give more than one a seriously unpleasant day.

The two-handed axe should have a very fast swing, devastating effect, even if 'parried' or 'blocked'... (more so if blocked, as most parries are deflections rather than out-and-out blocking counters) but does require recovery time.

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Really, rather than actively blocking, your weapon should be capable of passively protecting you, simply by virtue of being between yourself and an incoming attack. Perhaps the method of wielding large axes and polearms I'm familiar with is unique, but a vital component of wielding such weapons is to constantly use them as a shield. You launch the weapon with leg and body movement, positioning yourself behind it relative to your opponent(s) throughout the swing.

Point being, it would certainly take time to intiate any proceeding attacks, but for the same reason a great axe or polearm should also act as an effective defensive barrier.

There are weapons that are easier to return to a guard or striking position with after a blow. I used to fence, your speed at returning to a guard position is very important.

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Again, perhaps my understanding of swordwork is simply different... but one way of looking at it anyway, your attacks should essentially be moving through guards to begin with, using the sword as a shield even when you are manuevering in a way that it thrusts into or cuts an opponent. It seems rather silly to stand in place, draw back your sword (creating a huge opening), then lash back using arm and shoulder strength.

not only cause pain but knock the wind or balance out of someone.

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Oh how I wish we had disbalancement and knock-back factored in. It would make some weapons so much more valuable. While we're at it, it would also be nice if you could knock opponents into each other Swinging around a huge maul or warhammer with the right timing would be very interesting against some tightly packed foes!

Merentha said:

One problem you are all forgetting about blocking is that it is not a direct block, and the weight difference in weapons is nowhere near as high as people think.  A two-handed longsword tops out at 4 lbs, and a massive landsknecht zweihander at 6.  by contrast, a one-handed sword is about 1.5-3 lbs.  (I am approximating, and extrapolating.  Damien will no doubt correct me.)  Furthermore, a straigh block, like the current overhead block ingame, almost never happened.  The character would instead deflect, rather than oppose, both to preserve his arms (both sword and body) and let the opponents weapon keep moving, which sets up a riposte.  Weapon wieght also has little to do with it, as a zweihander has no more blocking capability than a one-handed sword.  The zwei might have less, actually depending on whether the attack hit the strong or weak of the blade.

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I wish they WERE animated as deflections rather than hard blocks. Perhaps in some future version they can change the "block" animation to something more realistic. But again, I thought this had to do with interrupting attacks, NOT blocking. I think the weapon mass issue comes into play when you are comparing something like a longsword to a poleaxe or warhammer. Realistically the best you can do against something like that is remove yourself from the weapon's path, or move closer to the pivot point I suppose. Its kind of silly you can block some of those at all.

I thought this was about interrupting attacks, not blocking 

I quickly learned to never auto-resolve combat, and broke my mouse once in anger when I was knocked unconscious by a lucky projectile weapon from one of the last few enemies... because likewise, I had finally built up a decent group but most of my knights and other units were killed by bandits when my lights went out. My supposedly elite troops were mopped up by petty thugs, who were going down like grass 5 seconds earlier. I was utterly destitute for quite a while afterward. Very frustrating!

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the one-hit kills. They just look and feel delightfully nasty, and really keep you on your toes. That lurking chance of death at any moment really sets this game apart! My problem is with the terrible consequences for your party. My favorite games have always been those that are fun even when you get killed. M&B is already the most fun I've had in a long time with computer games, this part just needs some tweaking

I do like my new MX518 though... 

I strongly agree that the chance to continue an attack while being hit should be largely a product of weapon weight and timing of the attack. Once a bardiche, greate axe, or maul gets going, like someone else said you couldn't stop if it you TRIED.

I study a system of Japanese martial arts which dates back to their major civil war period. Some of their larger battle axes, warhammers, and polearms, were "swung" much like you would perform throwing techniques on another person. You simply could not just pick it up and swing it around with your shoulder and arm muscles like the M&B characters are animated doing, its more like using your body as a fulcrum and the weapon shaft as a lever, and casting it into an enemy with combined leg and arm movement. Although European martial arts are not as well preserved as the Japanese, I've heard that the methods of using great swords and other huge melee weapons were quite similar (simply because they are human beings following the laws of physics  ).

On the other hand, getting nailed by a huge warhammer is going to move you and definately disrupt your line of attack. Perhaps both the attacker's and interrupter's weapon momentums should be the deciding factor (momentum persumably being the weapon weight and time into attack).

All this aside, I think that the problems with getting mauled by mobs of opponents in a melee would be partially fixed if attacks are stopped by friendly troops. Friendly fire for melee weapons would get greatly out of hand without some major fixes in AI (though it would be a very interesting addition). But really, it should be VERY difficult for people to slash at each other in a crowded space. There's a reason most armies use spears 

Speaking of, it seems like a relatively simple feature to have the AI try to maintain a distance from his opponent equal to the reach of his weapon, and damage should be reduced the closer to the enemy you are than this. Between that and "friendly stoppage," crowded melees should be much more manageable.