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Janus said:

That sentence doesn't entirely make sense, it seems poorly translated. Are you trying to ask why we made the change because a Chinese player got mad?

If so, there was more than one person complaining as I recall, one of which was the usual "Taiwan isn't a separate country" nonsense from a Chinese user. Not a huge concern, but largely something that could lead to sparking more conflict on our forums between users which the moderation staff would then need to deal with.

There was brief discussion among moderation team members, some from the US, some from various parts of Europe, and others from various other countries. One moderator pointed out that the country codes don't even necessarily fully reflect which people would be using those languages, since Traditional Chinese isn't used solely in Taiwan, nor is Simplified Chinese solely used in China. Removing references to both countries in the language names made sense as a compromise and was a trivial change. So, we went with that.

Indeed, Taiwan is no longer referenced, nor is China. Unless you consider "Chinese" for the language being a reference to China, as you seem to, but... well, that's what the language is universally referred to, at least in English. What else would you call it?

EDIT:
Just to add, the developers (official full-time TaleWorlds employees) were not even consulted for this change. It was discussed and changed solely between our moderation staff and myself.

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First I am sorry about my broken English to make you confused my question.

The question I was actually asking was How "ISO" become something conflict issues just because Chinese unhappy to see what they see?
"ISO" just a neutral term to present the language where's the people using.
Many enterprise are used "ISO" system to present the language to their users, could it be lead them to some conflict issue?

Imagine one day British people gonna come out and complain "EN-US" was uncomfortable to them,
Since English isn't used solely in US or UK, will you make it change if in this scenario?

It's just sounds like have to appease their feelings to avoiding any conflict/trouble could be happen.

No doubt, China is super rich nowadays. Many international companies were owned by Chinese investors and they have the power to give opinion to support their political position.

Still remember Blizzard which Banned the Esports Player After Pro-Hong Kong Comments?
Chinese won't happy any criticism about CCP and their country so Blizzard made the decision before it cause controversy and conflict to against China and affect their Chinese investor's fund support .

But things shouldn't go like that, it's just like the whole world have to follow China's plan and their rules if you wanna to earn their money.
I mean they can do whatever they like with their rules in their place but stay the f**k away from my country.

Sorry...It just ridiculous to see how a neutral-term words become something conflict issues because of their political opinions and disappointing you made the decision yield to them.

Janus said:

What question? Please repeat it.

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how it become a political unease just because a Chinese player got mad since so many enterprise are used?

Janus said:

I changed it fairly quickly largely due to my indifference, and it was a trivial change taking less than a minute of effort.

Why did it take you so long to raise a stink, did it take this long for you to notice? This change was made back in January and yours is the first complaint I've heard.

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Coz I even don't know it's happened,
The notice pop out from September 2020,
then someone bring it to political in January 2021.
Why you not ask the same question who complain it after 4 months ago?
Oh that was my bad, I should bookmark every post I've seen.
And back to the topic, you still not answer my question yet.

MadVader said:

They also removed CN that stands for China. Now tell me how is that pro-Chinese? The admins are trying to please everyone, but you still complain.
Did any Chinese complain about the removal of CN? Then why should you? Who is the snowflake now?

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Ofc they don't ,because "C" bought them to orgasmic, Simplified Chinese and Traditional Chinese all belongs to "Chinese" in their point of view.

I've already answer and explain it in my post and response, please read over then oppose my view of point.

GrandiousBrain said:

This Hwu s messages/posts TELLS IT ALL
Just look at them https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?search/1709862/
He is so feaking fixate on China like its his water and bread aka like he is person aly paid to go on formus and go full anti China .

Hwu you alredy EXOSED yourself for what you are.

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well, tell me how do i make this up?

It's all happened and I just see what i see then saying it

Oh yeah! you got me. Agent GrandiousBrain,
I was paid by CIA, FBI and SIS.

If my mission is paid to attack China then how do I not spamming anti china everyday?

MadVader said:

It looks genuine, there are plenty of HK and TW internet activists trying to attack China at every opportunity. As well as Chinese mainland loyalists.

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I just wanna to put the thing up there and let more people knows what's it happening , it's been a topic in the "TC" community.

Janus said:

I am indifferent. We wanted to add language support to the forum for those two variations of Chinese language to make it easier for people who use those languages to use the forum. There were complaints about the CN and TW not necessarily representing what people were actually using those languages since it is not actually specific to a single country, and the political unease between the two separate countries (see what I did there?), so we removed both country shortcode references and switched them to SC & TC to represent what the language variations are actually referred to.

As far as I'm concerned, we can always just remove both language packs if a lot of people (beyond this one currently vocal person who is so late to the party) want to make a political uproar about such a nonissue, and just let those users deal with English forum language. Or Turkish or Russian, whichever they like.

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The most weird part is your staff explain "TW" is just a ISO include system but in final you just made decision to make it became a "friendly word" to Chinese players just because "TW" will hurt their feelings.

As your staff explain about ISO, So many Enterprise actually using "zh-tw" language to provide Traditional Chinese users for reading.
Like Blizzard, EA, UBISOFT, PlayStation, even the Microsoft are using "ZH-TW" for Traditional Chinese users.

I don't know how it become a political unease just because a Chinese player got mad since so many enterprise are used.
And I didn't see these company get any trouble because "TW" and also they have business in China.

It just make me feelings like you have to appease their feelings but also I have to act sit on the fence.

Btw if you really "indifferent" then why you make it changed so quickly?

And hope I can help you make it clear, I'm not the one who bring the political uproar.

Eärendil Ardamírë said:

Moderators at the forum are no staff members. We are no employees or anything similar. It's also not my section, I didn't move the thread, can't do such. Not sure what you have expected though, for each thread topic there is an appropriate place.

I am also not trying to argue my way out of this, simply because I don't need to. In my opinion Taiwan is an independent country and not a part of China. Still, the shorttags for both are better since not everyone knows well about the ISO and it reflects better the chinese names of the languages. Those have by the way not been changed, merely a '-' was removed which was simply not needed.

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Who knows? I can see you still trying hard to defend the company reputation.
Still remember the Taiwan player who banned for 10 years?
Every move your company did we've seen clearly.

I trust peoples are not blind.

You see
Here's the story

Staff:
Wow...chinese player unhappy to see "TW" exist
Ohhh no i have to earn chinese money and get their fund support
I got to do something to make joyful to chinese

OK... NO "TW" anymore! ALL HAPPY!

You are just trying to argue your way out of this, but the truth beats arguments. No matter how hard you argue, you cannot change what happened.

Eärendil Ardamírë said:

So you complain that the language options are now called (SC) simplified Chinese and (TC) traditional Chinese, with latter one fitting better that TW since it does not get only spoken in Taiwan but also other countries like China?
Perhaps, if we are lucky, they are also renaming English (US) to English (GB) or add that as an option ^^

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I think you even don't read the response about ISO and misleading the discussion.
And why so quick to move my post to low streaming thread after i posted 15 mins ago?
Scared to let more people know my post?

Orion said:

K, so you didn't read the statement Callum made in the first thread like this where he said all of those bans were reduced in length to days, not years. What do you want, a screenshot of their ban list? Statements are all you can hope to get, and you aren't entitled to those, either. The report system & vetting criteria are still being determined. Put your pitchfork away and just wait for answers with the rest of us.


He also clearly stated that the only people who have access to issue bans are employees of TaleWorlds, which means no-one from any community, be it this one, the main Chinese community, reddit, or any other, have any actual capacity to issue any bans. Deliberately spreading misinformation isn't allowed. No-one except TaleWorlds can issue bans.

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So how you explain the first Taiwan players get banned 10 years again??

Habut said:

Again, let me reiterate this point. It seems some people still don't understand. The "evidence", specifically the screenshots you guys yourself posted actually shows most of those bans were justified by the rules.

Heres the thing. Going to any server and saying stuff like "ching chongs" or "these asian ****s" in a derogatory manner will get you banned. You can try going to EU or NA servers and doing the same thing, the result will be the same. You will also get banned. If you want to argue against those rules, then go ahead. However the fact remains. Those bans probably weren't due to some Chinese censorship. You went to the server and said some stupid, racist and derogatory **** and gotten banned by the rules.

I understand if you want to fight against Chinese censorship but this isn't the way. This way you are giving them legitimate reasons to ban you. Literally the screenshots you posted as evidence shows you were saying stupid stuff.

Other than that it is possible the chinese mods lied while submitting reports. Even if this is the case that doesn't mean CCP is censoring you. Again I want to point out the servers aren't even in China.

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IMO, we make some bad example about racism like Ching Chong indeed. But i don't think every words are racism if you really look up these evidences like winnie the pooh, corona virus even Tienanmen(historical Massacre)...

You talk about try going to EU or NA servers and doing the same thing will be the same, but the main point is China forum put their rules to whole servers not even China server. And reminds me noticed you that the first Taiwan victim players get banned from Asia server, How about Winnie?
How about John Meade? Did they played in "China server" ? Your logic just like put every Asian player are belong to China and they deserve it.

We're not picking this fight or against in first, It's Chinese censorship making ours or/ yours have no choice. Ofc We can keep silence and nerdy in game but someone have to speak up and let the community know the truth.

First they came for the Taiwan and Hong Kong, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Chinese.

Then they came for the Asia, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Asian.

Then they came for the Europe, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a European.

Then they came for me—
and there was no one left to speak for me.

**EDIT I HOPE THE DISCUSSION DON'T GETTING SIDETRACKED, THANKS.

X_Lancer said:

From HK census and statistics department:<https://www.censtatd.gov.hk/hkstat/sub/so20.jsp>

Believe it or not, both of my parents were born and raised in HK.

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johnNOVHn said:

Obviously u got your answer from Google. U will say 7 mil if you are from Hong Kong.

If you are really raised in Hong Kong, your parents come from mainland China.

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Please you all stick to the subject and don't get the discussion sidetracked, Thanks.

azakhi said:

I can literally see many accounts with names you guys are claiming to be censored not banned on our systems. Far more than the banned handful of people. How can you talk so surely I don't understand.

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Probably their ban is expired because yours make the ban date shorten.

Btw , The first victim player from Taiwan is getting banned because the id/avatar and he says something about corona virus on chatroom, and the snowflake chinese reported him with screenshot. And you can find the evidence on Letter or backup files.

How about John meade ? He's appeared on the ban list.

The most straight is "Winnie happy organization "

Chinese mods accept the political reason report

And his named showed on their ban list

After 5/4 the issue on heat, The Chinese official noticed that and starting hidden their report post content that you may required high permit to access, i don't understand why TW even not giving victim players a response but i can surely know they trying to hidden something.
Why they going to modify their report post if Chinese official think their way are not doing anything wrong ?

We are not the mods that impossible to find out the direct evidence.

But if the community interests getting offense, we have rights required TW make investigation and explain to ours why the China community(中文站) have special authority can allow them follows the china censorship to accept political id case report.

We're not accuse TW helping China censorship.

But the truth is, probably China forum make their rules behind TW and your didn't know that.

And China forum wanna to make Political id case report works that's why all ban reason are "Cheat using" .

The Open Letter for telling the community is about China forum doing china censorship behind TW and we hope TW can possibly know what they doing exactly and dig out the truth.

We just the player and TW should have take the responsibility to investigate and report the result. Since the China Official get their special authority and letting them abuse the " Good Faith".

And now, almost every discussion related china official authority abusing post are quickly lock down and deleted.It makes us felt uncomfortable and looking help in other way to defend our rights.

Make an Official Public statement and public investigation report is required and reasonable,rather than judge the post and said "we're on investigate" and lock down the related post. It just impact the community doubt.

eddiemccandless said:

Has anyone bothered downloading the "Evidence" folder? Because I don't see any evidence of what is being claimed in this thread there.

@HwuSam, your google drive link is in your trash by the way, I had to download it from MediaFire.

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Thanks for noticed me that

Callum said:

We have already responded to this, but allow me to reiterate. We are the only ones with access to our backend services. The bans were processed in good faith after being reported to us as being cheaters. All of the bans were later reduced to 1 week.

We have worked on a solution to the problem and are confident that this won't happen again once our new system is in place.

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Reduced the ban date not the solution , just the palliative . And it make me feels no one wanna to take the responsibility for that.

IceNoVa said:

Moderation had to shut two threads down, because there amount of xenophobia and racist language was becoming an issue. There's also not a lot we can actively discuss and these threads derail into political arguments quite quickly, which would be fine it this was not the on-topic section of a video game.
This one did not feature any of that, hence it will stay open. Keep it classy though.

I can only repeat my previous statement that Taleworlds will most likely issue a statement soon, possibly investigate on their own before doing so. It's probably the best time for a quick reminder that moderation consists of volunteers.

---

To the issue at hand:
10 year bans are excessive. A few months usually do well enough to deter future misbehaviour or can be renewed if there is no improvement. Bans should be easy enough to retrace and should be reduced or lifted depending on the reason given.
Political criticism is not a reason justifying a ban, though the amount of it should be fairly limited given the nature of a multiplayer game. In my opinion the only actions worthy of punishment are those that purposefully harass other players and harms their playing experience.

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Can i ask you a question? since you guys keep busy cold down the heat through reddit, steam discussion and TW forum...
Is that truth the Chinese Official take over every Official server's or/ East-Asia management permit?Because it seems you never answer the community's question.

SouthernCross said:

I think it's true, look at this example.

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I have more evidence to prove the truth about they banned players coz their avatar or/ id name,
but i still looking Taleworlds next move to decided my move.
I will uploaded evidences if Taleworlds do nth.

E.M.Baguette said:

You are saying that someone was banned for 10 years from all servers because of an avatar? wtf?

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Yup..If you're avatar or/ id name offense China's censorship or snowflake Chinese.

E.M.Baguette said:

10 years ban for exactly what?

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Thanks me later.

abcd6723 said:

TL;dr: Chinese admins abusing their rights in east asia server by enforcing censorship.

Currently, east asia server is administrated by a Chinese forum for some reasons. Yet, those Chinese admins are now asking Chinese players to report any anti-PRC ID/avatar/chat message.

https://bbs.mountblade.com.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2062564&extra=page%3D1&mobile=2

A dozens of players are getting banned permently banned for using Winnie-the pooh avatar or simply saying stuff that Chinese government don't like ( such as corona virus originated in China or even taiwan no1)

Those Chinese admins are abusing their power and enforcing chinese censorship to all players in the server.
This must not be tolerated by devs. Either withdraw their admin power or start a new server for other east asia countries.

Edit: https://bbs.mountblade.com.cn/thread-2058054-1-1.html Chinese file reports and admins announce permanently banned list at this thread. U can see that a player was banned because of his ID "happy winnie organization"

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I've translated the chinese announcement in #49 , feel free to using my image and let more ppl knows.