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King_Bark said:

I'm not a horseback rider or a medieval knight, so I'm not sure, but I don't think there's anything that would stop someone from changing the direction the lance is pointed in, maybe the weight of the weapon and the bounce of the horse?

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Pretty sure they did lock the lance in place and hold it steady for the moment of impact at the least but still aimed it a bit. but I don't know if there are any modern examples to properly draw upon to fully prove one way or the other. I imagine that yes it is unweildy to move around more so due to it's length. Imagine carrying an imbalanced ten foot pole it's not super heavy but at the angle they are holding it yes it would be very hard to maneuver I could only imagine a little bit of left and right and even then you would -Not- want it to be wiggling before you impact.

BruXseleS said:

Love that one

and to the mad lad, lets see how many of your great ideas will be added to the game

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Honestly, I think you are major contributing factor to why they won't. I think you intentionally derailed everything to undermine me to make yourself feel better and succeeded. I also think that everything I've said here would make the game better and I think you think that too. Your issue was a matter of prioritization right? I think in an effort to make yourself feel validated you've destroyed a good opportunity to implement some good ideas that would improve the game. I've made concessions I shouldn't have under pressure and you get to stand there feeling vindicated patting yourself on the back because of it. Congrats on actively making Bannerlord a worse game? You must feel smug.

Sundeki said:

Yeah, there was a stun, enough that if someone hit you, and they decided to swing again, you had no choice but to block. Near as I can tell (based on instinct, but the data may not exactly align) the stun in both games is more or less the same. Bannerlord just has all these extra slowdowns (combat speed slowdown, attack animation delay, the delay on block effect vs block animation, weapon textures being out of sync with the weapon hitbox, etc.) that make that same stun effect so much worse. Remove all of this extra garbage and I don't see a reason as to why stun should change at all.

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I actually totally concede to that. Ya, fix all of those problems and we should keep the stun to some degree.

I think the problem is that the stun lasts long enough that if you take another hit near the end of the stun, you are actually locked long enough for the first person to swing again. Right like this is what I'm trying to explain that people may not be understanding. Once you take the first hit, it's easy to get stun locked just repeatedly take damage until you die without being able to do anything. This can be utilized with as few as two players if they are halfway coordinated.

Krisee said:

1. Bumping is fine.

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It isn't and I'll go in depth as to why you are wrong. Currently there is an issue with the interaction of a 1v1 battle of cavalry versus infantry without a spear that's paying attention to the cavalry. The issue is that there is no way to defend yourself and if this battle starts against a skilled cavalry you will lose in seconds regardless of anything you do or how skilled you are at the game. This is because as the cavalry is moving towards the infantry they can see while they are moving at them whether that infantry is going to be blocking, or swinging. Then the cavalry can choose to either stab in front of them outranging the infantry while they are swinging, or charge into the infantry and drop their block and forcing a hit. Every single time they move at the infantry they can make this decision in the moment and there's no counter play no way to respond in any fashion even dodging wont work because they just adjust to where you go. All of the cards are in cavalries hands there's no amount of skill or ability or tactically decision making that can save you as an infantry in this scenario all you can do is pray the cav guy messes up. That's problematic and unnecessary let me give you an alternative.

Just make it so they can't use a lance to hit you from point blank, it's physically impossible. Then if they want to forcefully end the fight they are forced to engage in a battle where people can possibly react. So to stop a cavalry from overpowering you with bump attacking, you can actually hit them first to stop their swing because they no longer have a ten foot pole that stabs from point blank. You might notice they can hit the horse first because it sticks out further. That's how you have to trade off if you want to force an infantry to die without being able to respond. 1: skillfully outrange them with your longer ranged lance and repetition hoping to catch them making a mistake. 2: Pull out your sidearm and charge your cavalry into them to force their block down, risk getting hit first and losing the chance to attack. Also opening your horse up to take free damage as it ploughs through infantry head on in order to give you the opportunity to hit people for free without them being able to block. Balanced because it stops the currently broken interaction between the outranging people with the lance or bumping down their shield combination. It also increases the range of tactics available to cavalry by having them actually use the sidearms on horseback every now and then. Because they no longer can force you to hold up your shield when they are engaging with a longer range weapon while retaining the threat of bumping down your block anyways if you try to do that. If cavalry used their sidearms to be able to bump into people to force down blocks for free damage they risk getting stricken first and losing their attack and they also assuredly risk damage to their horse that is in front of them. The infantry has to decide if they want to gamble swinging against a longer ranged sidearm or stab into the horse charging them. This is no longer taken away because cavalry is holding a lance that outranges you way further. For anyone saying this would nerf cavalry you're wrong actually. This is a very specific scenario that won't effect 90% of how cavalry engages in it's ideal way. Typically, cavalry, rides around at full speed and wants to stab anyone who isn't paying attention in the back. This is for those rare situations when cavalry doesn't do that. When they want to kill one specific person that is paying attention to them. Because in -this- fight. The game is BROKEN.

Krisee said:

2. Rather have them try and fix chambers than this.

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They don't need to fix crouching bro, it is already in the game. It's probably a toggle. Like they could just click a button that has this on or off. I don't even disagree that fixing chambers would be better. The list is simple ways though like, seems chambers don't work very well with the game state as it is and that could be insanely hard to fix. I'll add it to the list though I agree it should be fixed.

Krisee said:

3. skill issue

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"where they can't be moved to block." My exact quote on the effing vote. What the actual oh my god I can't even engage with how non sensical your reply is .... learn to read? This reply makes me not want to validate your other replies at all because it's so bad. I'll move on, whatever.

Krisee said:

4. this isnt a problem

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I guess you don't use round shields much probably. This is really annoying and happens to me alot, I'm confident this happens to other people. You're in a fight 2v1 or something and you block quickly because you have a shield and it just dives off away from body leaving you completely exposed. It's a frustrating way to die bro you're capping if you say this never happened to you.

Krisee said:

5. just remove crushthrough

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Bet. Ya. Let's do that.

Krisee said:

6. its fine

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Are you sure? I don't think so. It's weird that a giant wooden mallet does double the damage against horses that spears do. It does an INSANE amount of damage compared to anything else in the game. I'm actually convinced it's a bug. Have you tested it? This is weird. And silly. What do you mean? Why do big wooden hammers do so much more damage explain how that's fine?!

Krisee said:

7. remove stun when you get hit? no. Chambers will fix it if they ever work. Also you can win 2v1 it is just very hard. (against good players)

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Chambers would help yes, I think that shouldn't be the -only- way. I'm not saying like I take a hit but my swing still goes through. I'm saying I take a hit and then I'm not locked for just enough time to take another hit from something else giving the original swinger just enough time to hit you again before you can block. The problem is, with the correct tempo and footwork, two moderately skilled players completely shut down any single player in the game. Also if I see two swings coming at nearly the same time and block one, it's really weird that the millisecond the other one hits me, my blocking of the second swing is phased out of existence. How about you tell me the benefit of keeping it instead. Why are these interactions not problematic? How does keeping the stun and not solving these issues I've raised make the game better?

What you really want is for couch lance to not move. Because essentially what happens when people couch lance is that the game doesn't follow quite as quickly visually as it does mechanically to how people move the lance. So when I swipe it left you don't see that on your screen because the game isn't picking that up graphically but it does actually register it. Realistically lances should probably be fairly static so I don't necessarily disagree. The developers sort of addressed this already by very significantly reducing the lances mobility and damage already. Though I think even it still doesn't register for people so it seems like you get hit when they completely miss but actually they just appropriately adjusted. It feels pretty clumsy on horseback at the moment. Lancing is awkward risky and sometimes completely whiffs inexplicably. Realistically if you maintain high speeds and swing accurately lancing is effectively completely useless. It's already a crutch for people that find it difficult to swing while moving quickly. Knowing that lancing is worse actually than just swinging at high speeds, it seems difficult to make it even weaker. I think if you lock it in place and even make it so you have ride relatively straight like... you start lancing and your lance freezes your horse speeds up and you have to go straight but you deal a whopping blow which is pretty accurate kills anything in one hit but forces you into a very set patch for 10 yards or so but also gets your horse to do like a bit of dashing. There you go now it's a focused ability which has usefulness. Right now it's sort of bad already is my concern.

Just make it so they can't use a lance to hit you from point blank, it's physically impossible. Then if they want to forcefully end the fight they are forced to engage in a battle where people can possibly react. So to stop a cavalry from overpowering you with bump attacking, you can actually hit them first. You might notice they can hit the horse first because it sticks out further. That's how you have to trade off if you want to force an infantry to die without being able to respond. 1: skillfully outrange them with your longer ranged lance and repetition hoping to catch them making a mistake. 2 Pull out your sidearm and charge your cavalry into them to force their block down, risk getting hit first and losing the chance to attack. Also opening your horse up to take free damage as it ploughs through infantry head on in order to give you the opportunity to hit people for free without them being able to block. Balanced because it stops the currently broken interaction between the outranging people with the lance or bumping down their shield combination. It also increases the range of tactics available to cavalry by having them actually use the sidearms on horseback every now and then. Because they no longer can force you to hold up your shield when they are engaging with a longer range weapon while retaining the threat of bumping down your block anyways if you try to stop there hit from farther away. If cavalry wants to end the fight in a 1v1 quickly they risk getting stricken first and losing their attack and they also assuredly will take damage to their horse that is in front of them. The infantry has to decide if they want to gamble swinging against a longer ranged sidearm or stab into the horse charging them. This is no longer taken away because cavalry is holding a lance that outranges you. For anyone saying this would nerf cavalry you're wrong actually. This is a very specific scenario that won't effect 90% of how cavalry engages in it's ideal way. Typically, cavalry, rides around at full speed and wants to stab anyone who isn't paying attention in the back. This is for those rare situations when cavalry doesn't do that. When they want to kill one specific person that is paying attention to them. Because in -this- fight. The game is BROKEN.

BruXseleS said:

So lets just agree to disagree

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um. no? You haven't said anything to disagree with. HAHAHA. Agree to disagree on what? All those valid points you brought up about my thread?

BruXseleS said:

Where is the voting option " None of the above" ? Tbh none of these problems is really a problem, every single one of them can be avoided by knowing the game, and as some people said "Getting better".

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Wait a second, you don't have any points. Your point is, all my points are invalid without any clarification as to why. No better suggestions, just, I'm wrong. I'm not agreeing with this nonsense plotline. I don't mind debating the inner philosophy of online social interactions but nothing you've said about my personality actually applies to the point of this thread right. Like my goal here is to try and make suggestions that would improve the game. Your goal here? I suspect is just to make me angry. I will literally chase my tail like a dog for no reason I'm never going to give up replying on you buddy. I know maybe everyone that you love may have already done that but me, this stranger on the internet you've entangled yourself with. I'll never stop telling you to shut up.

These are good suggestions +1

Brux you mad because i don't agree with you but you haven't said anything of value to agree with. Everything you've said in these threads is to detract what other people have said. You've given no useful input at any point and you're blowing up my thread with pointless comments. If you hate my ideas so much why are you giving them so much attention and interest by constantly replying. I can't delete my old thread but there were some really good examples of useful comments that actually made a difference or made me change my thread in some way because they had merit and I'd love to give credit where it's due and shine a spotlight on useful dialogue and what good it can do to improve the state of the game.

jon01 said:

There's a lot to criticise about the combat, but I don't agree with some of these points.


I'm pretty sure you can still block in time after being hit in a 1v1 encounter. Once you've done that, you can then attack them, but you'd need to do so quickly if they're still attacking. It's not a turn-based game. I don't think there's anything about the game that doesn't allow you to get better at this.


I remember TG_Arena had quick ducking, but 1) it looked a bit weird, and 2) these kind of evasive manoeuvres (especially dodge-rolling) miss the point of M&B's system. The game uses a direction-based combat system, so a large part of the melee is supposed to be about blocking attacks in the right direction. That's just what the game is, and it's one big area where you can definitely get better at the game (to the point where you'll feel like a Jedi master if you've mastered it).


Because it's a skill-based combat system, which again you can definitely get better at. You just need the wherewithal to hold up your shield at the right moment. Making the shield always active will bring on too much of a luck-based factor (or make them OP), and I think inactive shields do still affect projectiles at the very least.


This is an area where employing good footwork and awareness of incoming cavalry will help you get better at the game. Bump-lancing is something that can be fairly balanced and skill-based. Dealing with crushthrough, footshots and horse archers is completely unfun, but rearing up cavalry with polearms (before they bump-lance you) is definitely a fun thing to do in M&B. They just need to change the cavalry and polearm mechanics in lots of ways to improve the overall experience.


There are some shields that work better than others for coverage, but I do think archers can bypass shields way too easily. Sometimes if you've bothered to buy a shield, equip the shield, hold RMB, point the camera at the archer, direct the shield in the downward position, the archer can still shoot you in the legs (let alone the feet). Preferably the shields would be enlarged generally for more coverage, otherwise invisible borders might have to be used. This is an element they could have improved on (since it was also an issue in Warband), but they've made it worse instead.

Projectiles going through shields is also another issue, and apparently it can happen due to "desynch" in the current state of the game.


I agree crushthrough is a cheesy mechanic, although it's not as bad as it used to be.

Before they first introduced it in 2020, the community explicitly told them they thought it was a terrible idea. They added it anyway to the MP, and it was a huge disaster. A poll was made on these boards in which the VAST majority voted for it to be removed or reduced. One of the few people who wanted it to stay in its entirety was a TW employee. Eventually they did something to reduce its prevalance (after about six months), but I think they silently increased it somewhat again when they added the perks.

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jon01 said:

You didn't clarify you were talking about 1v2. Stun might be a problem, but (for what it's worth) I think a bigger problem for 1v2 is the game's sluggish foot movement in between and around enemies (not sprinting).


I've played the game a lot, and I never felt like I came across 2h attacks "curving" around shields or blocks. If they've changed it very recently, then fair enough, but I'd prefer to see a video. And even then, at least for discussion's sake, we shouldn't treat it like it has to stay. If they're changing it, it can be changed further. Unless they won't because the release is near, in which case they're not going to add "ducking" either.

This might be a different point, but sometimes with a 1h sword I might look further away from the player while swinging to (supposedly) reach around shields. Although, I feel like it's more of a case of getting the enemy to drop their shield or making them look the wrong way or even just walking around to their side (or just doing random stuff and getting lucky).



I think the wide swing arcs are pretty bad, because they're clumsy, and they can get stuck on things around you (even far behind you). It makes the gameplay comparable to how Warband was during one of its earliest beta builds. The exact same issues were brought up in both the Warband and Bannerlord beta periods, but this time around they're not making the same efforts to address the same issues.



Callum (TW): This seems to be working as intended as far as I can tell.

FBohler: Worrying to see Callum trying to justify the unjustifiable...

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/stabs-getting-caught-on-things-behind-you.390337/#post-9191352

The game automatically switching attack direction for you when you don't move the mouse is another issue (shown in the video). It used to be that swinging and missing would be what switched the direction automatically, because I guess in some realistic sense the weapon would naturally cross over to the other side (at least horizontally). That was bad enough. But they obviously tried changing it, and now (instead of removing it entirely) it's still there, but it instead happens when you actually hit something, which is even worse, and it doesn't bring on any petty "realistic" logic at all.


I agree that cavalry and polearms mechanics ought to be improved.



They've made some very small improvements during EA, but it's my impression that they're mostly okay with making (sorry to be blunt) an untalented tech-demo simulator with paradoxically detailed yet shallow gameplay mechanics, so don't get your hopes up.

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KSHMR said:

I don't agree with most of these points, but there is one point I like to add: bump couches. They are absolute garbage and should be removed but it won't happen because, TW.

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Also like I said rumor was the server crashes were already going to be fixed or had been fixed by the community. I changed that and the entire focus of this post once the guy who runs the custom NA servers mentioned it. I know that's a higher priority, but does that mean we can't get anything else done for the game at all?

BruXseleS said:

And why do you think ? It will be either ignored by the devs cuz some people like to post their ****ty ideas multiple times or covered with other spam of question asking why the server is crushing.

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Listen! For once in your life just internalize what I'm actually saying instead of regurgitating the constant spew of garbage that is your attitude. That's the difference between me and you, I'm going to add a none of the above option. Please stop posting hateful comments on my thread after that. I don't appreciate your nonsensical misspelled frantic and maligned opinions. I'm capable of changing my behavior and taking advice, please meet my standards instead of trying to pull this entire conversation down for no reason. Goodbye.

BruXseleS said:

Brother im not the one validating my opition based on 3k hours and playing in a "Major" Division, I think most of your points are useless or atleast useless for now and the only valid point is crushing that wasent even made by you. Instead of forcing your usless ideas like "crouching during combat" make a post where people together can choose the most important ways to improve it. I mean just look how many views this post has, but only 33 votes and most of them arent even on the idea you wanted in the first place, second most voted is obviuslly the hyper gamer changing mechanic that will make multiplayer grow by 200%

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This is your standard of important issues to fix in the game? These are two things you've ever posted about what needs to be done to improve this game. You are talking trash to me? Get outta here lmao. Haters gonna hate I guess. Hey why not go post a thread where people can choose the most important ways to improve bannerlord. You seem to know exactly what needs to be done regarded that so why waste your time talking to me instead of doing what you think needs to be done?

Terco_Viejo said:

Let's see, being able to crouch can be used to perform feints/evasive actions to counter enemy blows... this is combat wise truism...something like this:

That said, I agree that attacks from a crouched position should be static and automatically deactivated (back to stand pose) when the player makes any movement in any direction. If we look at how spear/pike bracing works in Bannerlord we see that the devs decided to give it mobility; which is something I find annoying/bad choice and IMO it should be totally static (directable but losing the brace action after any repositioning).

It's funny how certain additions that come from VC heritage like overhead stabs have been introduced in Bannerlord and others like shield hit taunts and crouching with attack possibility have not. I wish some day can have something in line with Vikingr mod offered... mean while a tear drop down my cheek.

​

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Let's go me and the historian agree today this has got to be a good omen, usually Terco in the past has not agreed with me ever and now here we are preaching the same medicine today. That's how crouching should work. I also think that pike movement is wonky and silly too. Pikes had to be set up typically they would be dug into the ground behind the infantry holding them historically, not inching up ahead to meet the cavalry that is preposterous.

BruXseleS said:

Mdf is "on the highest brackt skill level" and recommends crouching during melee to "Improve the game" while we have crushing servers or wierd hitboxes. I think its quite ridiculous how every 5 messages you say you are top level player with bunch of hours and yet you add the "For you most important problem (Crushing)" after bunch of people recommend it in the comments. At this point im not even wondering why taleworlds ignores us.

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Okay, you win. It was wrong of me not to include that as a priority. Does that invalidate everything I've ever said and also undo my birth into this world because my existence and anything I would ever put forward are now meaningless? Because everything you've said make that implication when I don't think we've reached that conclusion yet. I mean, I did correct that mistake right? But here you are with a bone to pick for no reason it would seem. Maybe just maybe it's difficult to listen to people online because other people continually dig into anything they say without provocation justification clarification or the desire to actually achieve anything other then dragging other people down as low as they feel on the inside? Maybe, this comment here is out there for the homies, if you feel sad on the inside you should talk to a therapist buddy. Don't take your damage out on me. Move on.

_COS_ said:

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<3

Suspicious_Man said:

I'm curious, why do people want to allow crouching during combat? If it's anything like it is in chiv2 with people squatkicking all over the battlefield it looks incredibly stupid, and it's only really necessary there because they don't let you actually hold blocks.

I'd be fine with allowing people to swing/block while crouched as long as they can't transition from squat/stand or stand/squat while swinging/blocking and the animation time stays like it is now. I.e. allow an archer to crouch down and shoot, don't allow a person in active combat to spam the squat button while actively swinging/fighting.

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ay, man. Chill. I just think I should be allowed to duck how about that. I don't need to swing or even be able to block. Just let me move my body like a human can and would, it's already implemented into the game, why is it restricted? Why you hatin bro, it doesn't look silly to do completely normal feats of human capability man. Like the crouching animation is a bit off for sure but... it's there.. I see an arrow flying into my face but I swang my sword five seconds ago wtf is this handicap for?

All too often while playing bannerlord you die and it's the game's fault. When I die in a video game I want to reflect on what I could have done better to prevent that from happening. This is taken away when there are this many flaws in the multiplayer. Alot of people chiming in to say most of these are needless but I genuinely think how much the hammers do to horses is a straight up bug. The things I'm pushing for here aren't for me I'm not trying to change the game because I'm bad at it. I'm trying to improve the game because it could be better. I'm in the highest bracket of skill level available for my region already I don't need git good pats on the back. I'm taking the thousands of hours I've invested into the multiplayer and applying them with astute observations that are good for the game. I think if somebody can actually prove that any of these changes wouldn't make the game better I'd be happy to strike it off of my list, that hasn't happened yet.

Alkix said:

I just want to point out that the round shield thing ends up being super useful when defending against arrows while climbing ladders in several situations.

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This is a specific situation that would be problematic, though you could just let people turn their torso on ladders. Then round shields don't have two blocks that fail to protect 90% of your body.

TheCrusader5 said:

Chambers can actually be used reliably (not by me, but a guy called Vampy does it pretty well). The real problem with chambers is that they really have no use case, if you land a chamber its not even free dmg its pretty easy to block and thus the risk reward is terrible to even attempt them.

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I had them do that to me and didn't think it was intentional. You're right it wasn't a game changer by any means they did it once out of like 10 duels. I think in a 2v1 it would be surprising enough to possibly turn the table. It's not enough though because it's very risky most people can't even do it and that shouldn't be the only possible way of getting out of two skilled players attacking one person at the same time. With proper timing and basic movement it's just over automatically. This is by design and it's easy to fix.

BruXseleS said:

Some tips to improve:
- Join a clan
- Try training on duel/tdm
- Disable assists for SP aso (Autoblock on singlplayer etc)

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Great advice for any new players looking for ways to improve their gameplay. I don't understand why you wasted your breath saying you disagree with all 8 of these points but thanks for helping random noobs that might be looking at this forum.

RubbingMyAxe said:

None of this matters as long as the servers are unstable.

Last night my battle server had 80 people on it, and then the server randomly crashed. When it came back up, it did not go above 20 players for the rest of the night. And those players didn't go to TDM or Siege, because those were empty. They just closed the game.

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I actually agree this issue is the largest problem with multiplayer now, there's no doubt. This has been destroying the population in the most horrible way possible. I think the fact that this remained is the worst thing for the server retention as well. I thought that once the custom servers were released that this was going to be solved. I heard the EU servers figured out a way. If that isn't the case, I would actually say that everything I've posted here isn't as big of a priority as that. Since you are the one person I suspect might fully know, uh, I'm gonna put that at the top uhh because I thought this was finally over... smh.

cruzader79 said:

I think balance modification are in order when we have a healthy and numerous MP community.

what we need right now is to fix crashes and make/give cosmetic options, new game mechanics, xp events, etc.

we need players first

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Ya I think tale worlds secretly spent a lot of time and resources porting this game to console and is likely to do exactly what you are saying.

Koso said:

Game has lots of problems about gameplay, but the the problems you mentioned its not really problem and not important compare to fundemental problem of this game I'd say. Your problem is mostly git gud thingy. Also its not damage of make 2v1 impossible; movement speed, shield bash, maybe even chamber.

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Chambers aren't consistent enough to be replicated even while you're practicing it in duel. I do agree this could be a great way to offset this problem, it doesn't exist though so maybe that is the suggestion. Shield bash isn't it, movement speed works for kiting but dear god are we really saying that's the only way you can win a 2v1? Why not just make it so that 2 skilled players can't abuse the damage locks with timed swings to kill anyone in the game with no chance of responding?

Koso said:

Spoiler

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Hold on one second these examples are absurdly unrealistic. This only applies because the examples have a higher weighted weapon. Notice how they have a two handed sword and are always fighting one handed weapons? Because when you block weapons with a higher weight you get delayed when you try to block again. Besides that glaring issue these are exceptional circumstances when the people they are fighting continuously do the wrong moves for 30 seconds in a row! You're proving my point the only way it's possible to survive a two v one is if the enemies are making mistakes! This is intentional it's planned and coded into the multiplayer to prevent people from being as good as they actually are. Ask a developer this is on purpose and it's awful. You should be with me not against me dude.

If someone can just delete this whole thread post that would be awesome. I reposted a corrected version that is far more productive and hopefully actually useful.

Reepacheep said:

Lol I’m quite familiar with the pickups server. You’re a very solid player but you try to play Bannerlord like Warband which is holding you back. I’m on mobile so I won’t go point-by-point but bro maybe instead of spamming the n word in chat you could try adapting your playstyle to fit the game.

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The fact that you are accusing me of that proves to me that you definitely have me confused with someone else man. I'm very actively against the use of that word and have had multiple disputes regarding it in that discord. I'm glad that place got deleted it was a cesspool and I vehemently fought against it's unmoderated existence. They like recreated it under a new pretense and early on there I was randomly made a moderator but it was instantly taken away as I immediately started fighting the blatant rampant racism there.

Stefmon said:

If shields get more protective with a larger aoe, then adjusting their health may be a good balance. I rarely have to switch shield because almost all shields take a decent pounding from anything except a decent axe. In Warband I used to carry two shields at a time almost always because one, or both or more will break if I survive a TD long enough. Only the very best shields could handle a good beating and a 6-10 killstreak. Now I've rarely had a shield break. Making shields more certain in what they do but harder to sustain might be a good balance that also gives some purpose to directional shield blocking (reducing the damage a shield takes? right?) which I mostly ignore unless I'm choosing to try hard a bit.

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I completely agree with that and this is great feedback. I reposted this and I think you should say this on the correct thread cause I was trying figure out how to delete this one.

Stefmon said:

Your salt is showing a bit too much. People are engaging with your post and discussing it, giving advice and responses as best suits someone who has a problem with the gameplay. If you didn't think letting them know that your recruit forum account belongs to an experienced player, that's on you. So speaking from a mechanical stand point, yeah some stuff doesn't make sense and others does in the new version of MnB. If you want to talk about how specific mechanics affect high level play, and that's the kind or response you expected from people, then that could have been a better post title.

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Bro people are gaslighting me because everytime you suggest anything ever nobody ever says they agree because there's no point in saying that, they read it, and they agree. Everyone who disagrees wants to tell me why. I've been aggressively sitting down children and not allowing disingenuous or half baked no thought responses to become prevalent because that's what they deserve. Furthermore it should be OBVIOUS that I play alot of multiplayer when I bring up six genuine complaints about the mechanical problems with the game. ??? People flying in here to tell me how to play the basics of the game didn't read the actual post at all or fail to make basic connections in their brains.

Stefmon said:

None of these points stop people from being good at the game though. Maybe they stop people who are already good at the game from winning fair/unfair fights. Again, that's a different point to what anyone coming to this thread expected.

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This is actually based and I agree the subtext of your reply because it's true that I put a click baiting title on top of this and didn't transition into anything constructive which doesn't actually accomplish anything. So I'm going to repost this as a poll with an appropriate title based on this your advice.

In response to your question regarding how these mechanics pertain to the skill ceiling in the game, I would say that the first two mechanics are my biggest concerns regarding this issue. You understand that obviously based on your response and youtube video and you're right that the other points aren't as connected to the title. I understand that there is some concern from people about the issue of skilled players pushing out newer inexperienced ones, I just genuinely believe that letting people excel is inspiring not demotivating. I know that when I first loved warband it was in awe of the impressive feats the people that mastered the game were capable of. That inspired me more than anything to get better at the game and I think we shouldn't pander to soft minded quitters that give up in the face of the great adversity.

Einarcf said:

1. There was a play test were you could ignore stuns when you took less than 35 damage on a voulgier. It was broken
2. If an infantry player manages to hit a horse with a two handed hammer, it is through the fault of the rider or the effort of the infantry player's team.
3. Bump stabs are far from being an abusive mechanic. I quite like it from a game play perspective. There are other parts of cavalry game play I would nerf before I touched this.
4. You need to move sideways and/or jump while approching an archer if you are afraid of getting shot in the feet. Some of the best players can sidestrife point blank shots semi-reliably without a shield. If you have any infantry shields and their movement speed I would expect a good player to avoid footshots when soloing an archer 95 % + of the time. Dismounted cav are toast though.
5. Crush through weapons are slow and leave you without a shield. Even the lesser shields are gonna give you way more protection against arrows (and melee weapons if you are not skilled enough to block without a shield)
6. Shields can passively arrows when not blocked with actively. If you have a shield on your back it reduces all damage on your back by about 33 % IIRC. Should be a slight sound cue when it happens.

Is this for TDM or siege?

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These mechanics all apply to TDM Siege and Skirmish. They are universal problems in the multiplayer.

1: Prove that and why was it broken this point is completely irrelevant without those two things a waste of time to read honestly.
2. Hammers do too much damage, way too much. Go test it out and see how powerful they are against horses before you blanket statement say it's the cavalries fault.
3. It doesn't make sense that spears on foot can't point blank stab people but lances one handed while riding a horse can. Even if you disagree with how powerful and broken it is, this shouldn't exist regardless. By the way, you are wrong. The best cavalry abuse the ever living heck out of this mechanic and it is completely broken and unfair you just think because most people don't get how to abuse it yet it isn't broken. The skill ceiling will raise and as more of the community master this completely abusive and ridiculous silly straight up bad mechanic, it will become even more insufferable.
4. no, just no. Make shields work how about that? I can do all of those things extremely well brother I bet that you could shoot at me and I would dodge 90% of your arrows. I'm an archer hunter, I know how to get around this problem, but why? Why don't shields, just, work? Why does anyone feel the need to pushing back against shields, functioning?? They prevent arrows and hits, that's their purpose. Except they don't it's absurd.
5. again, this is just wrong. Crush through weapons are slow, the classes that have them start out with a faster run speed. It's not slower than most of the regular infantry classes. Can you grasp how this is a problem or do I need to walk it through slower for you. Because naked people with hammers are sprinting around this conversation faster than you grasp why this is broken.
6. That's cute I actually like that mechanic and I understand. So here's the problem which I ALREADY WROTE DOWN ahem... so when you unclick the shield, it's still right in front of your body for a moment, but in that one moment right, IT BECOMES USELESS. Right so you can't drop you block ever if there are archers around can you, because even if you want to swing, the moment you start your instantly shieldless. This is annoying because the shield is RIGHT THERE but not functioning. I didn't say anything about it being on the back though thanks for that observation which was entirely irrelevant.

Guys. I have well over 3000 hours invested in warband and bannerlord combined. I have a deep rooted understanding of the functionality and differences of both games. Furthermore, I'm from a clan you may even have heard of, WK. We dominated the entire North American tournament bracket scene for years. Currently I'm in [NATO] which is a largeish clan you might have seen their tags. I also compete occasionally at the rat party pickups, which is pretty much exclusively where you find all of the most skilled players in NA in the current player base of banner lord multiplayer. Now regarding the EU players which I'll readily admit is a larger portion of the current playerbase and has probably a bigger competitive scene IDK how I match against them. Either way, I'm not a noob guys. I'm bringing up multiple good points, how would I know these if I hadn't played alot of multiplayer? Everyone is handicapped by these specific very fixable problems. Honestly I figured having this many observations that are accurate would have proven this already, I guess I have to tell you openly.

jon01 said:

I'm pretty sure you can still block in time after being hit in a 1v1 encounter. Once you've done that, you can then attack them, but you'd need to do so quickly if they're still attacking. It's not a turn-based game. I don't think there's anything about the game that doesn't allow you to get better at this.

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Yes in a 1v1 this issue isn't relevant. You are correct. You are also ignoring the problem of 1v2 even. With decent timing and skills, these fights are impossible. That's really, really, really, really, unfun. K? Just, if you don't understand something, why openly disagree? What is this interjection for brother?

jon01 said:

I remember TG_Arena had quick ducking, but 1) it looked a bit weird, and 2) these kind of evasive manoeuvres (especially dodge-rolling) miss the point of M&B's system. The game uses a direction-based combat system, so a large part of the melee is supposed to be about blocking attacks in the right direction. That's just what the game is, and it's one big area where you can definitely get better at the game (to the point where you'll feel like a Jedi master if you've mastered it).

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Bro, you say that but that's not how the game works anymore. That's warband stuff man. Bannerlord lets you hit around people's shields and blocks all the time. I hate the romphalia, this weapon completely illustrates my point and your lack of understanding. BUT. This is in the game as it is now, we can't make that massive of a change, even if it would be for the better. What we can do is play into it a little bit at least. Since attackers have the opportunity to curve their attacks around blocks, defenders should at least be able to move out of the way of certain swings right like this just improves the game.

jon01 said:

Because it's a skill-based combat system, which again you can definitely get better at. You just need the wherewithal to hold up your shield at the right moment. Making the shield always active will bring on too much of a luck-based factor (or make them OP), and I think inactive shields do still affect projectiles at the very least.

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Okay so it's not the right moment that's the problem. If you drop your block for a millisecond arrows phase through your shield while it's still in front of your chest. This is frustrating and forces everyone to hold block forever because it's insanely dangerous to drop it even for a second.

jon01 said:

This is an area where employing good footwork and awareness of incoming cavalry will help you get better at the game. Bump-lancing is something that can be fairly balanced and skill-based. Dealing with crushthrough, footshots and horse archers is completely unfun, but rearing up cavalry with polearms (before they bump-lance you) is definitely a fun thing to do in M&B. They just need to change the cavalry and polearm mechanics in lots of ways to improve the overall experience.

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bro, this is an area you don't know what you're talking about. At all. You are speaking insanely. You probably haven't fought with alot of high skilled players before and so you aren't understanding what a massive problem this is. I can't express enough how abusive and infuriating this broken mechanic is. I've already implemented a perfect suggestion to balance this massive glaring issue with balancing extremely skilled players ability to abuse this. They need to use their sidearms it's actually ridiculous that they push their horse into you at 5 mph dealing 2 damage and then point blank push a lance through your neck. Do you not understand how ridiculous and impossible this is? At point blank you shouldn't even be able to hit the enemy with a lance, on foot, you can't do it with a spear. Why does this exist it's SO BROKEN.