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Userre said:

I think a timer that forces the player clan to create a kingdom upon fief ownership makes a lot of sense. This would allow the player time to rebuild their party should it suffer casualties in the siege, to get clan parties on the map and recruiting, and to swear allegiance to an existing kingdom. Once that is implemented, however, there is no longer any associated issues with players creating clan-only armies.

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I think my idea of gaining criminal rating by owning a fief as not a kingdom, or being a threatening force near other faction cities/ castles (which would stay when your were a kingdom and then you could add military access treaties...) Is an in built timer. have the criminal rating grow exponentially. So even if you did pay a bounty or sue for peace, your rating would grow so fast, on a day or two they'd declare war again. Then, as you say, being an army isn't an issue because your threat rating would grow appropriately.

It also holds immersion wise, as a large "untamed" force would either be hunted down, destroyed, or converted. There are even more options for immersion since enemies of factions you have high crime with could seek you out as with merc quests or raid and subterfuge quests...

froggyluv said:

They play-test only to see if implemented feature is working as intended -not in the way you or I or a devoted Q&A 'lover of the franchise' would. Once they done, they are just glad to see it gone and not have to deal with it again (they hope). Thats why so many of us complain about a lack of Vision -should there be a strong vision coming from the top "I want these Kingdoms and NPC's to feel unique and for political upheavel to be intriguing" -than thats what the regular soldier developer would have as a guidestick and overarching theme to their design. On the other hand if the Vision from the top is -"Dammit just get these moving parts to play nicely so we can get back to Consoles..." -well than..thats another story..

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I think you've probably hit it right on the nose. And that's probably part of where my struggle is coming from. I see so little bugs that the "get it working smoothly" mentality doesn't make sense to me. But I could/likely do, have tunnel vision.

EmptyPepsiCans said:

Some of these decisions baffle me. I can only assume that the guys making them don't actually play the game.

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+1. A horse messenger is "world breaking" in mount  and blade.

AxiosXiphos said:

....Has all been discussed to death; and I have no further wish to talk about it here. Nothing I say will change your mind - so what's even the point of the conversation?

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Because I hope we come to a conclusion on where the game needs additions? Or where it is complete and I'm projecting desires. I'm sure the truth lies somewhere between me and you. It's great, more than great, that they focused so heavily on moddability. That's like. #1 requirement of the sequel (after it being complete)

AxiosXiphos said:

Once again - I'm not here to provide you an outlet. I really don't care what you think about the game.

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Then why did you engage in conversation to begin?

AxiosXiphos said:

This assumes that the majority of Warband players didn't mod the game... and they 100% did. In fact of my 1-2k SP playtime on that game; probably 30-40 hours of it would be on vanilla warband. I love warband - but let's not pretend vanilla Warband was perfect and modding wasn't extremely commonplace.

Let's not forget Warband didn't even have battle continuation after K.O....

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AxiosXiphos said:

I'm not here to answer your complaints; nor care to. I was interested in speaking about the mod figures - you quickly moved off that. Our conversation is done. There are many other users here that will provide you a suitable echo chamber.

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The mod figures were brought up to talk about the game being incomplete. If you're talking about them, you're talking about the game being incomplete.

I don't want an echo chamber. I want to know why Taleworlds is making an incomplete game. Everyone wants to know why it's incomplete. Why are you being so obstinate about this?

Is the game incomplete? Yes, nearly everyone agrees. Using mods to complete the game is morally objectionable, and isn't a solution. Wasn't done in Warband. Why is it done here?

Why is that not being address while the game is still in EA?

Why are the long lists of suggestions, which are all almost identical, not being added to the game to make it complete? Why are the things promised to us not being added?

AxiosXiphos said:

It has become clear that really all you want to do is complain about Bannerlord... I don't have any wish to take part in that conversation.

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No, you don't like what I have to say so you are writing me off.

Bannerlord is incomplete.

Where are the boats? Brittenwalda was such a great mod it spawned VC, but they can't add boats to the base Bannerlord game? Where's my criminal empire? Why can't I ask characters any questions? Where are my feasts? Where's my camp? Where's my fort? Why can't I control my clan members? A bland hard limit on companions instead of them getting along or not? Lifeless companions without storylines?

AxiosXiphos said:

That's a terrible comparison and you acknowledge this...

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I said it's not the best comparison, but it's what we have.

AxiosXiphos said:

And again I'm not seeing what this conversation is trying to achieve?

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Are you willfully blind? I've said it multiple times. The game is incomplete, there are many suggestions to compete it. But they are ignored, and their future plans are also incomplete. There is a huge plethora of threads with common suggestions that aren't address, which we are told means they are being ignored and won't be added. It's morally objectionable to leave the completion of the game to the free labor of modders.

AxiosXiphos said:

The vast majority of players of Warband; played the vast majority of their hours on modded games.

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Not verifiably true as we have all admitted.

AxiosXiphos said:

That adds nothing to the conversation.

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It's the crux of the conversation? If these mods were so important to Warband, the basics of those mods should be included in the sequel.

AxiosXiphos said:

I might install a Cosmetic pack to bannerlord - that neither proves nor denies any quality of the existing content.

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THAT'S EVEN WORSE.. It's a new modern game, if anything their graphics should be the BASIC simplest and best of any.

AxiosXiphos said:

Basically - this argument doesn't add any context or value to the conversation beyond conjecture.

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No, there are so many threads with suggestions to complete the game. The game isn't complete.

AxiosXiphos said:

Both games will have a large modding community; the popularity of this does nothing to diminish either game.

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Absolutely not. The mods improve the game. And in the case of Warband give it new life.

AxiosXiphos said:

Floris, Diplomacy, PoP etc were all amazing mods that added much value to Warband; their existence does not mean Warband was a worse game.

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Nobody says warband is a worse game. We're saying it's an amazing game made BETTER by mods. Bannerlord is currently, and planned to be, an incomplete game that Taleworlds is basically forcing the free labor of the modding community to complete. I want a new warband. Everyone wants a new Warband. What we got is an incomplete mod engine, that changes so little so often the mods can't even keep up to complete it. And when a huge list from many people with multiple crossovers is suggested, it's ignored.

AxiosXiphos said:

Again you are suggesting that people downloaded bannerlord; played it - didn't like it and THEN decided to search mods out?

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That's the standard process for nearly every body for a new game. Not "new to them new" but a game still in early access.

AxiosXiphos said:

I'm sure many of the hardcore community members did... but not the majority . Far from

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That is a clearly made up or speculative statement.

AxiosXiphos said:

You are also suggesting that a large majority of later warband players were not introduced because of a mod. I've aware of many users who bought the game just to play PoP.

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LATER, when the game was old. When PoP was complete.

AxiosXiphos said:

You are making up facts to support your cause...

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No. My facts come from straight numbers. 1/3 of steam owners of Bannerlord downloaded at least one mod from Nexus. 1/10 of Warband owners downloaded Floris (one of the biggest mods)

AxiosXiphos said:

The only truth of the matter is both games were/are modded heavily. If you must criticise the game - you could suggest that Bannerlord should have done better then relying on it's mods (like Warband did). Because Warband's long life was heavily due to the modding community.

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Bannerlord is a sequel and the most common mods should have been included in the base game. That's the point of sequels. But that's not even one of the biggest complaints.

AxiosXiphos said:

P.S. Floris is but one of many overhaul mods; and is available on multiple platforms.

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Admittedly my "mods download to steam owners" is a sketchy way to correlate players to moded players. But it's one way to visualize. If instead you look at the amount of people who have decided to come up this forum to comment on it. Many, many, many threads detail the SAME basic suggests. Many more gripe about the incomplete feel of the game...

I remember hating lord's Nelag and Knudarr through our multiple play throughs.

I don't want to diminish the fact that they have made this game so moddable in the first place. That's awesome. That means even more, and better, mods like PoP or Brittenwalda (maybe even another VC dlc!!)

Where are the boats? Brittenwalda was such a great mod it spawned VC, but they can't add boats to the base Bannerlord game? Where's my criminal empire? Why can't I ask characters any questions? Where are my feasts? Where's my camp? Where's my fort? Why can't I control my clan members? A bland hard limit on companions instead of them getting along or not? Lifeless companions without storylines?

Edit: I'm sorry of hijacking this thread, when I just meant to get the frustrations of so many people to the front page. I'm, personally, not angry or upset. But disappointed, that a game I've been waiting 10 years for. Isn't even a continuation, or on par with, the game that made me dream for it on the first place.

I will ABSOLUTELY continue to play, and enjoy, the game. Because it's the only game of it's type. We all had such high hopes. Only for them to be routinely crushed. And now I'm downloading 44 mods to hopefully add character to the game.

AxiosXiphos said:

This assumes that the majority of Warband players didn't mod the game... and they 100% did. In fact of my 1-2k SP playtime on that game; probably 30-40 hours of it would be on vanilla warband. I love warband - but let's not pretend vanilla Warband was perfect and modding wasn't extremely commonplace.

Let's not forget Warband didn't even have battle continuation after K.O.... And those things

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AFTER they enjoyed vanilla. To improve an already great game....

Floris had been downloaded 300,000 times. There are 5.6M estimated owners of Warban much less.

Lord Grindelvald said:

They're doing just that but the flavour is vanilla. Its -a flavour-. Now, everyone likes vanilla but nobody loves vanilla. We love banana, chocolate, strawberry or sex scenes to be put on the highest priority. But while I love banana and we both like vanilla, you want chocolate. So I go to the mod shop and sprinkle my vanilla ice cream with some banana on top while you do the same with chocolate.

They're gonna finish the game at some point. Will it be tailored? No, its vanilla. Its a good base flavour.

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That's our point. That's so many peoples point. It's not even complete to what was originally promised. Where is my criminal empire? Where are the characters personalities?

When there's thread upon thread asking for something, it's not a niche flavor.

I'll say it again. Warband mods were so successful because warband itself was great and they were making better an already great game. That is much different than using the free labor of the modding community to finish your game.

There are 15,000 current steam players. Nexus mods Mod Menu (a basic mod to get an idea of how many are modding) has been downloaded 1.3 MILLION times. While the game is STILL IN BETA. Approximately 1/3 of the OWNERS and likely every current player. Thinks the game needs to be modded to be played. While it's still in beta. Your "vanilla" is so bad nobody wants it. Which isn't the case with any of their other games. So it's a purposeful decision on this one.

Lord Grindelvald said:

There was a guy over here a couple of days ago demanding that sex scenes be put on the highest priority.

Lotta people, lotta flavors. Cant blend them all together.

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Not asking for as new flavor. We're asking them to finish making the ice cream in whatever flavor they want. We just don't want a puddle of cream and a bucket of sugar.

Wojciech Bator said:

During the time I played the game, I found out a few QoL mods that I think are a must and you guys should definitely consider:/

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You shouldn't HAVE to have a mod to finish a game that's currently in beta. When the POINT of beta is to get feed back on what to add to finish the base game?

Duh_TaleWorlds said:

I think it's a mix between the limited control approach, immersion (aka "phone calls") and scope of a desirable solution - leading to other priorities taking precedence. IIRC I talked to you about some lighter alternative ideas about this before, right?

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A small 1-2 man party, dispatched from your troops, with an exceedingly high movement speed. Like 8 or 10, not impossible to catch but would have to be trapped. Triggers a "go to clan leader" script, then joins their party. When the member reaches you they rejoin your party... Not a phone call. Easy to implement.

Edit: or you could use the already in place system for having your party members complete quests. The system is already there. Just make a "send message to other party" quest. A simple feature you could access from the camp menu..... In addition to so many other things you could access from a camp menu.

I agree that forming armies without a kingdom might break the game a bit. But you should at the very least be able to ask your parties to follow you for awhile. Why build the strength if you can't use the strength until you're already a (much stronger) kingdom? I don't need four parties in my army when I can have party of 300 tier 3+ units that I got from my city and trained in my garrison that I can fall back and defend if I lose a battle. I need it when I can barely muster 120 tier 1s and have nothing to go to once I lose.

One way to balance this would be that if you have a sufficiently large force (75+) or sufficiently dangerous (calculated the same way a party calculated to attack or flee from you) you would gain crime level with the nearby town owner. So if you have a force such that the town you were near would flee from you, were you at war and it was a party, you gain 1 crime a day that you're near it. Eventually having an army, or having a large party following you around, You would either have to pay tribute, or periodically pay your "bounty" to avoid going to war with the factions you are around all the time. You could have your crime increase by 1 every 5 days with the "default" owner of whatever fief you have. So you are forced to either make a kingdom, or use the limited diplomatic (which holds lore wise since a king wouldn't treaty with a small time squatter even if they were powerful) options to maintain peace.

My struggle is that if I(neither modder or developer)can figure out. If a modder can figure it out AND IMPLEMENT IT BETWEEN UPDATES, how can such a great developer as Taleworlds not figure it out and add it to the base game. Unless they are wrongfully and willfully leaning on the free labor of modders to finish their game. How can I support that? How is that my reward for 15+ years of loyalty? How can you justify it?

Duh_TaleWorlds said:

If it gives you peace of mind, you can consider anything not mentioned in the future plans as "won't be added". More realistically, though, we will continue to review suggestions and take them into account when the opportunity presents itself (more time/resources available than expected).

Edith: I also think some of these are out of date. First item in first list...
View attachment 162389

There is always a chance, I guess. However, currently we are not actively looking into it. So I wouldn't expect anything like this pre-launch.

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So Taleworlds is going to exploit the modding community to finish their game?

Mods worked in warband because they were improving an already great game... Not finishing an incomplete game.

That's the argument so many are making. It's visually stunning, but currently incomplete. EVEN based on what was originally promised, let alone what would be required to make it full. That's also taking into account what has been confirmed to be future plans. The future plans need to be more, and needs to come faster.


We're not discrediting the work that has been done or the abilities of the developer. But we have high hopes coming from warband, Viking conquest, and are holding you to that.

I had to convince my dad to buy a CD key for mount and blade from some turkish company via email nearly 16 years ago.... I think we all want our loyalty rewarded, and we know your are capable of doing it.

There have been many long lists of repetitive suggestions. Things that nearly every poster on the single player forum agree that the game needs. Why are those, not only NOT added, they aren't even mentioned as NOT being added. A direct response to each of those I think, is what we need. What of those suggestions will or won't be added?

Pretty much everything in this thread. +1 it needs more attention and will give the game the character that it needs.

Notatroll said:

Next month possibly. Code rework takes time.

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They're reworking code?

kreamy said:

dont forget to post when you get home

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I think you nailed it. 99.999% of people are going to understand and bee playing with friends anyway. And we'll put up with whatever is there. And come to a solution if there's a better way. But right now, it's speculation.