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Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James said:

I can't see how the problem with bannerlord is "streamlining". Missing mechanics isn't streamlining, its just missing mechanics. The mechanics which are present are way more convoluted than warband or viking cumquest ever were. I still don't properly understand the levelling system. I don't know exactly how combat works. Granted I haven't played much, last time I touched the game was months ago, but of all the things you could call bannerlord, "streamlined" or "casualised" isn't one of them.

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The leveling system is just badly designed. It's **** and frustrating.

Most Warband players don't fully understand the depth of combat either, but at least it's fun to play, so no real change there.

The streamlining in Bannerlord is things like:
- the lack of interaction with NPCs. In WB and VC, we can give suggestions about what to do to other lords (go siege X, go patrol, flee in this direction...), marriage is a bit more interactive instead of just RNG, there is still a lot of room for improvement. This is just straight dumbed down in BL.

We can't even tell our own clan members what to do FFS. Modders created a mod to do that like 2 weeks after EA started, without modding tools. WTF is Taleworlds doing?

- The general lack of things to do outside of just fighting. In the old games, we can do a bit of intrigue, sabotaging other kingdoms' stability, help make peace by doing quest, etc... It's primitive, but the idea is there to expand on.

We still can't tell our clan parties what to do. How does that make sense? Modders created a mod for that in what? the first month? or first week of EA?

-Caesar said:

• I think Pikemen/Spearmen need to be able to brace against cavalry charges. In fact spears need a big buff/upgrade to how they work, infantry wielding spears should really be able to jab with the spears a lot faster than they currently do.

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I won't be holding my breath for this. I'm pretty sure Taleworlds hate spear. Look at the patch note for beta1.5.5, the one time spear wielders are effective, they straight up remove the spears.

Basic units will no longer use polearm type of weapons as they were getting too good at stopping cavalry charges.

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That's the whole point of spear, it allows even relatively untrained and poorly equiped people to fight effectively.

stevehoos said:

Not sure why they would remove the pre battle placement, it was my favorite perk.

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Did pre battle placement ever work? I haven't played for month so I wasn't keeping up. I would not be surprise if they could not get it to work reliably so they just scrap it.

Just wait for mod at this point.

Any words on how far along is the command system for clan parties? So that I can tell them what to do and stop donating troops to garrison. Without that I found mid to late game far too tedious to play.

With this latest example of Taleworlds "logic", I'm resigned to using mods for the most basic stuffs now.

The armor changes are just baffling.

The devs are maybe trying their best buy I feel like the game development is just poorly designed, directed and managed.

The bonus xp from thrusting and squared shot difficulty modifier are just so... Taleworlds..

Janky, broken and unbalanced.

ceprast said:

The first and possibly hardest is reworking the campaign AI so that lords will seek shelter in them when they are outmatched as they did in Warband. Why they didn't include it here is a mystery.

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The fabled Taleworlds logic™

Baerstein said:

Watched in a new playthrough southern empire capture a aseri town. the aseri army stands outside and watched the town going to southern empire and then go to a village. The did not attack the southern empire at equal numbers. i think someone in forum addressed this as a bug and some mod responded something like: Talked to the developer and he says its intended.

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What on Earth??

I think recruitable noble troops, garrison helping friendly parties (help peasants fight bandits, etc..) and distance-based decision making (seriously armies crossing the whole map and then starved before accomplishing anything is just dumb) are good first steps in fixing this.

Sturgia suffers from the lack of ships. They have port towns, long coastline, their territory is broken up by water body. Realistically, they would need a strong naval tradition for fishing, trading and transport, to make up for the unfavourable condition of their land, but we have none of that in Bannerlord. The port towns themselves should have the capacity to send out fishermen and trading ships to increase their food and prosperity, otherwise the ports are just useless window dressing. Naval combat is not necessary for that.

I haven't played in a while but I remember that Sturgia doesn't have much grain production. Grain simply worth way more than anything else. Sturgia's specialty like fish and fur are pretty much worthless, so they stay perpetually poor in my game. They need to balance that too.

Terco_Viejo said:

This whole thread focuses on the AI's behaviour when operating as infantry; however the cavalry would need a review as well.

One of the first "eyebrow raises" I did, was because of this gif belonging to the Dev Blog 14/02/18.

Here the charge seemed much more powerful than it is currently manifested in the Native
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In the discussion thread, I wrote a comment indicating that there was a confluence of the cavalry charge at the central point of the group being charged. Obviously, at that time we didn't have access to the game and therefore it was all conjecture.

Well, just as the infantry is prone to charge at the central point of the group being charged; the cavalry in its absence follows the same pattern.

Imo a cavalry charge should charge offensively parallel to the defensive line of an enemy formation as indicated by the colour green. This mid-point charge attempt should only be achieved by a wedge charge (maintaining the shape of the formation and a certain parallel). As with infantry, when a charge is ordered, the formation loses its integrity (what use are the formations in such a case?).

On the other hand, what is a cavalry charge?

Speed and momentum of a real cavalry charge demonstration
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In theory it is a manoeuvre consisting of a massive, impetuous and resolute attack by a troop against the enemy troop. Well, as the charges are defined in the Native, we do not find "the massive" or "the impetuous" but rather "a walking in the park". In my opinion the cavalry charges are extremely slow and without high impact.

Once again I have been fiddling with the parameters and have altered a few resulting in the following:

Native	Modified

An increase in HP, speed and horse charge damage (for the test I have taken the Imperial charger breed) (* increased rein rotation too). In contrast, an increase in damage multiplier for the animal, an increase in fall damage for the rider and a more aggressive setting for the rear.This results in a considerable casualty impact for the object of charge, but also in casualties for the horses when they charge forward into a wall of spears. However, charging from the rear or the flanks to an enemy formation with these modifications would be lethal.

Native	Modified
hit_points="100" absorbed_damage_ratio="1.0" body_capsule radius="0.37" bipedal_delta_rotation_threshold_for_keeping_local_velocity" value="2.5" QuadrupedalRadius" value="0.8" MakesRearAttackDamageThreshold" value="10.0" FallSpeedReductionMultiplierForRiderDamage" value="0.77" speed="44" charge_damage="12"	hit_points="400" absorbed_damage_ratio="5.0" body_capsule radius="0.40" bipedal_delta_rotation_threshold_for_keeping_local_velocity" value="2.5" QuadrupedalRadius" value="1.0" MakesRearAttackDamageThreshold" value="0.1" FallSpeedReductionMultiplierForRiderDamage" value="0.95" speed="80" charge_damage="90"

As is also the case with infantry, the cavalry is slightly crowded; therefore the spacing in the formations has been slightly increased. As @Apocal comments in his thread, Taleworlds should consider the spawns grouped together in a formation with a large volume of agents when they are carried out in narrow environments. Otherwise, the typical "cliff suicide" accident occurs.

These changes for the cavalry would make it a devastating weapon against the enemy with a strategic approach, but with "carefree" employment would lead to a resounding decimation of allied troops. Making horses a valuable war asset.

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Jesus, you should just rewrite all the combat as this point.

Also, as cavalries are charging straight at them, seeing the spears wiggling on the infantry back is such an eyesore. I'm convinced that Taleworlds simply hates spear.. What is the point of having Menavliaton and spearmen if AI just use 1h swords all the time? Spear is not a niche anti-cavalry weapon! Stop nerfing them.

I'm kinda torn on this.

On one hand, it kinda breaks the immersion of the game, suddenly switching control to a different characters.

On the other hand, it's a really cool idea and give more incentive to have companion as governor and can increase your participation in more part of the game.

I think I will vote in favour of it.

+1

Revverie said:

Why does this suggestion thread has so little activity and neither is at top suggestions. IMO instead of doing patches of whatever they want they should all focus in one thing, how about they put the artists to add 10 more hairstyles and 10 more tattoos/scars and we just go with that until the next patch comes.

And why do they put the scars and tattoos in the same page, why cant we do everything in our character instead of being forced to choose one?
Also a BIG +1 to body tattoos/scars. Should be added too. Creating a character's face is nice but the rest is really lacking and missing

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This suggestion has been put forward many, many times, and was one of the more popular mod. Not like we can add anything to the discussion other than MOaR SLIDAS.. it's up to Taleworlds, if they even read the suggestions.

Many of these parameters are already in game, just hidden, probably incomplete, I guess? Who know? And I hope we get more hairstyles soon, we are missing so many basic styles, let alone fancy ones...

shiffd said:

There is so much in the game that just doesn't work and isn't balanced. I think they need to make smithing a zero sum game but leave the function of it in as follows-

#1 Get rid of all the ores and wood in the game as trade goods. Just eliminate it because they can't ever balance anything and they already have so many trade goods that aren't balanced well. Simplify it. If it's too much trouble leave iron ore and wood in the game but remove them from smithing process. Make smithing not use materials of any kind. It is a cool idea but the game is already so far behind and broken in so many areas. The devs of this game need to realize that they are not managed well as a team or talented enough individually to have the game do half of the things they are trying to do. Smithing can stay in if they remove the complication. End of story.

#2 Smithing now allows you to make any weapon you have the design for or to scrap weapons for money. Scrapping regular weapons gives you 10% less gold return than selling in the store but levels your smithing and gives you new designs. Smithing allows you to make any weapon you can imagine with a set cost. These weapons can not be sold to the regular stores, instead they can only be scrapped at a 10% gold loss.

Leveling smithing gives you access to better designs but it costs gold over time. The more you smith the more leveling and designs you get. You keep all the options to smith whatever you want like it is now. They could add more designs or armor etc. later if ever they fix all the other broken stuff which probalby never happens in 50 years but it would be less problematic by removing materials and refining et.c etc. from it and simplifying mechanics (and balancing much better).....

Also they should remove stamina but instead have time pass as you smith and scrap. the stamina perks that deal with smithing stamina could instead just speed up or slow down the time it takes. Let's say 30 minutes to scrap and 1 hour to smith. In reality smithing an item can take up to a couple days but lets face it, in the current model you can have your party whip out like 50 javelins in a split second so it's already super unrealistic....

They could have a queue where you set up a bunch of things to be scrapped and smithed and then it takes a few days and those items are finished but let's face it they don't have the competence to code something like that so they should just forget it....

To make the game realistic guys running around fighitng and trading and so on don't have time to smith in medieval tech levels. Smithing weapons is a full-time skill intensive job that requires a lot of specialized equipment and materials. You can't just walk into some town and barge into the local blacksmith's shop and whip out a few dozen weapons then leave the next day.. COMPLETELY KILLS ANY SENSE OF IMMERSION OR REALITY.

In reality you would be very unlikely to be welcome in someone else's shop unless you were their lord and in order to efficiently make weapons you would need weeks to months of day-in and day-out training and whatever specialized stuff you were trying to make you'd need time and preparation to put it all together before just spitting out your weapons. You'd need to time to get the right tools and materials etc.....

anyway this smithing thing is beyond the competence and resources of current devs to balance and make realistic. It should be just simplified. Less is more.

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I really like your suggestions. Especially the part about smithing being a FULLTIME HIGH SKILL PROFESSION. If this is my own game I would just delete the smithing skill and have commission from shop instead - Create a design then pay a NPC to make it for you.

I agree that simplifying is the way to go. And add Commission for both custom-designed weapons and high-level armors. That's how kings and nobles obtains their gears historically, they paid or ordered some artisans to make stuffs for them. It will also serve as gold sinks, just make top-tier armors and fancy weapons exclusive from artisans, with an obscene price tag. That is way more immersive than whatever they are trying to do.

I really don't understand Taleworlds' thought process sometimes... What do they think castles are for? **** and giggles?

I think they really ought to remove the AI's cheat of always knowing enemy garrison strength. That's the reason why they go deep into enemy territory to attack defying all reasons and logic. There need to be some sort of fog of war.

It's maybe a pipe dream, but I think a zone of control mechanic would be a great addition to the game. For example, friendly fiefs would serve as a scouting base and reveal the strength of nearby fiefs in a certain radius. That's way, factions will conduct war close to their border to serve as staging ground for further expansion. In addition to that, friendly parties would also serve as scouts and reveal information about fiefs that they come across, so deeper attack can still happen just rarer.

I just don't have the confident that Taleworlds will actually add anything that matters...

Maybe just add distance from friendly fiefs as a factor in the calculation of target choice?

stevehoos said:

Something resembling VC is not remotely in the same universe as CK.

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People are just resorting to strawmanning to defend Taleworlds, nothing new. We say we like more fleshed out, more immersive M&B game, like Viking Conquest and some of the WB mods, and they scream back "It's not CK" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The devs are probably working hard, but the game direction is the problem, I don't like how they are steering the game. For example, BL has a heir system, so Taleworlds must want people to play the long game right? but at the same time, they are seemingly against adding more depth that could help flesh out the playthrough, so are they just expecting us to repeat what little is in there ad infinitum? Is it any wonder the game feel shallow? The map is bigger, but it feels like there is less to do in it. The goals seem so contradictory, I don't understand what they are trying to do.

Like when you are wooing a lady for marriage, in VC I may need to sail over to a different land to buy fur and amber as a gift for her since those products are not always available everywhere and she asked for them, but in BL you just go through a bunch of bull**** RNG dialogues and then throw money at her family. A simple fetch quest feels load better than whatever we are having in BL right now. It makes me actually want to engage with the world, keep in mind what is produced where and keep some fancy stuffs in my inventory in case I need a gift, etc.. I'm not asking Taleworlds to copy the old system exactly or adding ship travel (BL continental map does not suit ship travel so well, I feel), so don't twist my words.

TW seems afraid that too many mechanics would overwhelm players, but like there are loads of players that don't know or utilise ALL of WB and VC features, they just charge into battle and have fun, which is perfectly fine. Things like paying travelers to spread rumours of political intrigues and weaken a kingdom, giving suggestion to direct the action of friendly lords (go there and patrol, defend this town, etc..) are in the old games but lots of people don't need to use them to have fun. BUT THE OPTION IS THERE FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO PLAY DIFFERENTLY. VC is great for this, it has tons of little features that although rarely needed, still feel awesome to use. Like you can trade with bandits if you are ruthless raider yourself. Or you can release a Bandit lord along with other prisoners and they would form their own outlaw party to go raiding, which mean if you create a disrupting force in enemy territory with your excess prisoners. And you can build a permanent Hideout, AND have temporary Troops quarters to split your party if you want to. You don't need to do all that to beat the game, but you have many options to play the way you want.

And there are the plain WTF decision making from BL devs: Inability to command your own clan parties (stupid ****s keep throwing my elite troops into garrisons and replacing them with recruits in the middle of a war and they are accompanying me, I have no input whatsoever), can't swap gears or leveling up companions who are party leader even when they are right there and I'm talking to them (needing to disband their party each time I need to give them a new helm or add focus point is plain stupid, no other way around it), removed the mandatory truce period WITHOUT a replacement which break the damn game (YES, I know it's old news and there is a new system now, but it's still WTF at the time), item prices are completely wack yo, etc.. Stuffs that just make you feel way less confident in the devs and game direction.

When 1.5.1 came out I try booting up BL again, but was quickly reminded why I was so annoyed and stopped playing in the first place. I'm keeping an eye on the changelog, but the game itself I just can't...

They are probably meant to be doing something related to the workshops, but the mechanic is not implemented yet, so both they are both useless.

hruza said:

Can double that. But we need more control over companion parties in general.

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In their infinite wisdom, Taleworlds somehow decided to give the player a clan and companions, but leave out the ability to interact and control your own subordinates in a game with substantial strategy elements.

Is it any wonder why many people feel that the game feels both shallow and tedious. I know that I stopped playing in part because of the herding-cat feeling when letting the companions do anything in their own. Can't even enter a friendly town without losing elite troops for **** sake!