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Apocal said:

That's the same as Warband. That's how I can tell a bunch of devs never actually got to that point in WB, because if they had, they wouldn't have replicated it in BL.

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I don't think that mattered in Warband. That was my point. The "game" was building/improving your party in Warband. In bannerlord it is building your kingdom. I mean even consider most popular mods like PoP. They had a lot of bonuses, items etc for your character and for your soldiers. Your challenges weren't just other kingdoms but were actually the big NPC armies that spawned every once in a while. The end game was collecting shards/diamonds to have all the upgrades and troops. I don't even remember if they had more buildings or more complicated kingdom management etc. They knew what Warband was about and they followed same logic. And it is one of the most popular mods.

I don't think improving buildings or some other small stuff would make the game much better. In my opinion core gameplay shifted quite a bit from Warband to Bannerlord. In Warband, your whole game revolved around building up a strong party. Almost every single thing in the game helped you for this. You slowly improved your companions, all of whom stayed in your party almost all the time. You slowly improved your own character. You slowly improved and increased number of your troops. Money sources were for supporting your own party, nobody cared if schools were ridiculous cause it simply wasn't part of the actual core game. Even relations and such I would argue was to help your own party because there was no clan relationship or anything. You used relations to convince lords to help your own party. It was all about main character and their party in the world.

Then Bannerlord comes, supposedly continuation of the series. And to me personally it feels they added every single thing that sounded cool or realistic on paper without actually considering its effects to the game. And the core gameplay shifted from player and their party to kingdoms. Which made us suddenly left with something that isn't fun, that isn't proven to be fun and missing lots. Kingdom management is lacking a lot. Settlement management just exists, nothing more. Diplomacy is same. Clans don't mean much other than letting you create multiple parties and continue with an heir if you die. Relations don't do much. And then there is this plague called "army system" that changed balancing a lot just to have it and in turn completely ruined focusing on your own party by making it way less important. Now all we have is a not so fun end game that only consists of repetitive "create an army -> get a settlement -> try to pay some lords to join you" cycle. And the pacing is quite fast but can't be slowed down because end game is simply empty.

TLDR; Bannerlord isn't good because it isn't Warband.

Get rid of the simple and powerful army system. Armies should be a lot rarer and costly (both time and resource wise).

Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James said:

taleworlds definitely wants the game to be moddable, but its one feature among many, not their primary concern.

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Modding should never be the main concern. Then they will have countless people saying TW did nothing and it is all modders. Only a handful of people praise Bethesda for keeping their games moddable while everybody else bashes them for releasing a game that mods make better. Guess what? Mods make any game better due to nature of voluntary install. There are thousands of mods, of course there will be some that fit your own specific tastes.

Making moddability a primary goal is a guaranteed loss. Best case scenario all your efforts will go unnoticed by many, worst case scenario most people will say you released a game only for modders to "fix it". I would rather try making the vanilla game a good game and ignore modding till then. So as a player, I would want them to make it more moddable. But I wouldn't have made it primary concern either if I was leading the company.

Totalgarbage said:

6/10 seems like a fair score, the game does have many glaring issues. What seems bull**** to me however is Victoria 3 somehow getting an 8/10 (Though it's IGN, I don't trust their scoring regardless). Can someone who played Vicky 3 tell me if it is a good game? Most people I've talked to told me that it's broken **** with horrendous AI and a clear downgrade to Vicky 2.

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I haven't played Vic 2 or 1 so consider that. To me Vic 3 felt quite unfinished. It is not just shallow but feels like missing a lot of things rather. I personally enjoyed economy part (although it is true it is a UI hell). There are some fundamental issues that needs to be addressed, like managing population growth is hard and not too logical. Your neighbour can put a immigration decree and steal 3-5% of your population every year. Only way to gain population fast is to keep increasing standard of living, which will bite you back when all of your buildings start losing money due to high wages. You can't move to higher tier products cause guess what? Technology takes 10 years to research and there are a 100 different production tech

Blood Gryphon said:

What a great review, agree with almost all of it. Give me ****ing messengers.....

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You all can sit here and discuss if Bannerlord deserves it or not a whole year while people enjoy it. Same with Taylor Swift. You can even put it on your gravestone that you were a musician your whole life and Taylor Swift wasn't quality. Won't change me and others enjoying her music.
Saying "i am sorry for you" or calling people "sheep" only reflects your own character.
Have fun discussing!

froggyluv said:

Not a strong argument. Britney Spears or Taylor Swift or whaever DaF pop star may receive rave reviews and outsell the best musicians in the world. Means nothing if your a musician who knows whats up. Pop sugar pleases masses -dont discount people who know the inside game and what could have been achieved due to working with the engine for a long time. Sheep gonna sheep.

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Wow the elitism in this comment. Let masses enjoy Taylor Swift. I enjoy her music. Calling people sheep for that is crazy.

They changed economy around workshops quite a bit so you need to pick one after some consideration. The new wages are 100 (from 20) and price differences between products based on supply/demand is higher. This makes wrong choices more punishing.

bunions said:

Just offer Bloc major stock in the company, or even better offer him a position as head of design post launch. Problem solved.

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That would be fastest way to upset at least half of the modding scene!

xdj1nn said:

I think it was a genuine suggestion in hopes to salvage the game - most of us don't care about being right, we care about having a good time...

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Well in that case, good luck to you guys!

"Hey TaleWorlds, we think you are not doing anything good and only modders can save this."
"Hey TaleWorlds, why don't you pay modders and prove what we kept saying?"

I have a feeling you knew the answer was definite no so I wonder what was the purpose behind this post.

I have heard/seen this or similar expectations from lots of people, which is interesting to me. I see no reason for them to do anything more for modding. To me it seems current state of modding is deemed good enough and some small improvements might come now and then like it did during the EA but I highly doubt there will ever be some big modding specific update. As for not breaking existing mods, I don't think that is a concern of TW yet and unlikely to be any time soon.

For the updates there is one thing I am curious about. I know TW has different teams focused on different areas such as graphics, gameplay, campaign, MP etc. It is normal for teams in a company to be out of sync, one team far ahead of the other in progress. Usually game companies have multiple projects being developed at the same time so resources can be reallocated. We know from job listings that there is at least 1 other project but will the teams that don't have much to do in Bannerlord anymore be moved to this other project? Will they start working on DLCs? Or another likely option, we might still get some not content updates in some areas that we didn't expect. Like performance and/or AI. And I would expect that to break mods.

Lord Irontoe said:

That's good to know. So the mods in the game's mod folder load before the workshop mods then? I imagine that will make managing load orders tricky.

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Not before, sorry wasn't clear there. What I mean is, if you have same mod installed both in Modules folder and Steam workshop, the one in the Modules folder will be used. However you can still sort your mods as you wish.

You can combine them. Game loads mods from both locations. Modules folder in game directory gets priority.

NPC99 said:

Congratulations on releasing Bannerlord.
Still getting my head around the switch from e1.9.0 to v1.0.0 - IIRC most early access mods didn't bother with the "e" prefix when describing version compatability.

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Was always planned. The prefix "e" came from Early Access for that reason.

Brano said:

...Please note that Xbox and gaming desktop do not yet have voice-overs...
What is a gaming desktop?

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Gaming desktop is Xbox PC

Okay this is ridiculous. One streamer tried to mount a horse by jumping on it. I am guessing TW paid money to these people for this.. At least don't make them stream on your official channel.

bunions said:

They are all rather poor players, and all the streams are early game so far. I assume this is as intended to hide flaws of the late game, or rather showcase the only strengths of the game which is the establishment period of the player clan. Once the game proceeds beyond that point it rather quickly becomes hollow as most forum goers here well know.

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Some aren't just poor players though. They do seem like it is the first time they played M&B games. One streamer was wondering if their health would go back to full after a round of tournament. Which is why I think it was far from reality of the game. They were excited for unusual stuff, missing some stuff etc.

Some of these streamers seem like they are playing the game for the first time. That might be intentional though since target audience is the newcomers. I personally find it boring and far from the reality of the game.