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archaicwarrior said:

New Flash ! I don't think they care what old fans think or want. Consoles / hand-helds is the future apparently ?

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Not for Taleworlds.

They have trashed their reputation and have done NOTHING to fix it. So they pushed away many of the players (read old players) that made them and have done nothing to keep any console players that were basically tricked into buying a really bad game that wasnt actually made for them.

Knowing how bad TW has been at developing this game, why do people keep asking THEM to add things?

Let them FIX what is broken and walk away from the game, and ask the modding community for it. It will be done FASTER and BETTER and there will be no more mods broken from horrible changes by TW.

Artimenner said:

Given the state of the game and the fact that mods keep them alive.I would say a more morally approach for TW is to just give the base game on around 20 bucks/euros.

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Given that the state of the game is the state of the game because TW decided well into development to stop actually developing the game to make a console version so they could milk even more people out of money for an unfinished game...I would not pay $1.00 for another game made by TW.

They need to actually finish this game to ever get money out of me again and it sure will not be on another pre-release. They have lost any chance for me to trust them in the near future. I will need to see at least 2 games released by them, in a finished state before I ever trust them enough to pre-buy anything. Also, those 2 finished games in working order better show a company that remembers that their games are great because of the modding community, not because of them.

froggyluv said:

That was the biggest anti-rant rant Ive ever had the pleasure of witnessing

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You are welcome.

Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James said:

That's clearly wrong though, because preorders and microtransactions and loot boxes didn't always exist, and when introduced most people hated them, and that was barely 10 years ago. The average consoooomer follows the industry and the industry follows the most successful games.

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Are you trying to actually refute or support? lol...a thing not always existing is not a refute...and the most successful games require the most people to buy them which is what they are doing for these new games and thus supports what I said. Older players also have the most disposable income and are the very cows these companies milk.

Nonsense like that is causing some developers to laugh.

Now what? Look, someone pointed out the obvious and thus must be true. Only a non-developer would believe that a game being made and released is going to effect another developer in such a way. Its just clickbait and fake outrage. The game could sell 100x more copies than it has and it will change a grand total of nothing in the industry. Players will keep pre-ordering games at the same rate from the same companies. They will keep buying lootboxes. They will keep buying games with microtransactions and keep buying the microtransactions they sell. They will keep buying games that openly state they are going to base their income off of overpriced DLCs and will keep paying for those overpriced DLCs. They will buy the next game from the last company that released an unfinished, buggy game they raged about.

Nothing is going to change, because consumers are not going to change. If you do not know who I am talking about. I mean you. Especially those of you that watch clickbait fake outrage videos. You are raging against things you will actually do NOTHING to change in your own consuming choices which feeds the thing you PRETEND you hate so much. You are basically a self-harmer and love it. Now then, hop onto reddit and post about how much you despise Nvidia and their business practices before you go research the next Nvidia card you are going to buy soon...or post about how much you hate Disney and how they are ruining your favorite IP while you watch Disney+ and that same IPs new show you are posting about hating so much...s

Dead? No. Not near as popular as it once was? Clearly. Steamcharts shows a steady decline in playing since November and it it wont really rise until TW just plain stops making updates to break mods there wont be a chance the community can keep interest in this game going like with Warband.

I have little hope remaining that the devs even care. The change made no sense to begin with and the excuse I heard (multi-player battles) was even more mind boggling. This is supposed to be a glorified battle-simulator and the change made that, far far far worse. I wish they would just fully open up modding by unlocking everything and just stop designing the game so mods are no longer broken. The community can make a mod to bring this back far faster than they can if they dont have anything hard-coded.

Going to guess some of you are young so allow me to explain Steam and modding to you.

If you have a game that forces you to use Steam (Horribly lazy developer choices) and you mod your game you really do need to create another install of your fully modded game and when you go to play it, make sure you are in OFFLINE mode with Steam, launching the game from your secondary folder and not from Steam itself.

I still find that this games version 1.6.8 is the single best version due to the mods that worked for it. There is not a single thing Taleworlds has not made the overall game better than it was that the mods for that version provided and in fact made more than a few key things worse like removing the ability to assign soldiers and companions to their own formations. Bad enough they did it to companions but to also try to force me to have sword footsoldiers with spearmen is obscenely dumb for a game that is supposed to be a battle simulator. Anyway, make second/third installs of your personal favorite install versions and keep steam in offline while playing them. Yes, do this for any game you modded on Steam.

roberto_sc said:

ISo I'm feeling a bit like the guys from this thread were feeling back in 2016, thinking it doesn't matter how bad people say it is, it's probably much better than M&B and therefore awesome.

I'm a guy that is happy to buy a game to play for 50 hours, I don't have the time and patience to play something for 500 hours.

So I'm writing to ask how Bannerlord is compared to the original M&B, for someone interested in some sandbox singleplayer experience.
Thanks!

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1. Anyone saying a game is just plain going to be better no matter what just because its new, are not people to listen to. Its actually an obscenely stupid thing to say. There are a lot of examples of sequels of games that sucked compared to the originals.

2. Not all games are for everyone. Many people do not play RPGs because they just plain take too long and if you are a 50 hours kind of player, this game is more than likely not the kind you will enjoy. It can easily take you over 50 hours just to become a faction leader depending on your actions, skill and luck.

3. I will not compare Bannerlord to either M&B or Warband because those games are completed. If I were to compare them now, I would say Bannerlord is the worst of the three because of all the bugs, unfinished and broken "features" and lack of working mods and total conversions. Warband is still the shining example of greatness for this series because of the mods that filled the game out with all the things the Developers either failed at or left out of the game.

The Mount and Blade series is great because its a sandbox and has a rich community of modders that gave us a ton of toys to play with in it. Right now Bannerlord is lacking most of those toys and most of us cannot wait for Taleworlds to stop developing and get out of the way, while also hopping they stop adding in "features" that remove a lot of the sandbox aspects of the game. "Features" easily get in the way of ideas mod makers have.

Point is. Right now no one should be judging Bannerlord against the others yet as it is not finished and we have no idea what the developers are going to do that is going to harm the mods that can make the game the best of the series.

As much as I want the developers to just finish the game and get out of the way so mods can be made to make the game actually good and not break anymore...that is not going to happen is it? No. They are going to release the game, unfinished and buggy and continue to develop and break mods.

So the game is going to be released, to try to make more money while continuing to rain havoc on mod makers and the ability to make the game good on our own. All this is going to do other than make Taleworlds more money faster, is ruin the games reputation with a terrible launch that is going to be worse than Cyberpunks.

A release that ruined CD Reds reputation and this company does not have a great reputation yet to ruin. Bad move.

warpowerfull said:

Pachinko machine after that? Maybe Konami can help.

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Knowing Konami, they'll turn it into a damn good one.

Ugh...I am so glad I stopped talking my friends into buying this game when they started making modding more and more difficult. Until all this mess is straightened out that is not going to change.

M&B was a masterpiece of simplicity and this one could have broken the mold and gotten games like this into the mainstream but something is severely wrong at TW right now. Its as if they have forgotten what it is they have here and are pretending they are a AAA game company.

Varadin said:

nowhere it says that i would be paid for.

DLC can be for free as well...

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Yeah, after a game is released, not while its still in beta. If it was accidentally posted, it means they are keeping it out of the game on purpose and are actively working on content that they have no intention on having in the base game, while working ON THE BASE GAME.

TheLordOfTheDiamond said:

If this company publishes DLCs for Bannerlord. Are you going to buy it?

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No. A game like this should not require extra content and DLC means they are holding it back for more money later.

The only thing I expect to see in this game is what we had with the original, Total Conversions passed off as "a new game". That is all Warband, WFaS and Viking Conquest were, conversions. Sure you can claim they were more but in reality they were not. Just the original games code, reworked and some extra features thrown in with reworked graphics like so many total conversions are.

So a Bannerlord Vikings edition with a map of northern Europe with factions and religion system based on real world like Viking Conquest = fine and expected.

A $5.99 DLC for a religious system = GTactualFO here...that should be in the game.

That will also cause havoc in the multiplayer game as you are then creating a wall that will prevent many from being able to play with each other as the DLC will place people into subgroups of haves and have-nots depending on the type of DLC it is as some kinds will create incompatibility between players games.

Stromming said:

Considering both Warband and Bannerlord relies heavily on mods to be enjoyable for a long period of time, it would be insane to restrict modders.

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This, 100% this.

The big question is, how is it TW hires members of a TC modding team, yet somehow do not understand how they are making TCs difficult to make? This BS has made me lose faith in the future of this game and I have started actively telling people to hold off buying it until this clears up.
Base Bannerlord, like M&B is not a good game. its a great FOUNDATION to mod off of, like Fallout, The Sims, ARK, Conan Exiles. But unlike those games, this one becomes great via Total Conversions.

You should read the below post. This hit the same week as the latest patch and may actually be the cause of your issues.

Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James said:

I don't doubt that there are more mods now that there were in the past, but that's because the number of games and players has skyrocketed in the last few years, as well as the number of game developers (who often start out modding). That doesn't mean it's not harder.

Back in the 90s and early 00s for example most games were made by a small handful of people and were relatively simple and self contained, and could realistically be reverse engineered even if there were no official tools. Most of the overhaul mods from back then were made by one person.

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Yeah dont go there mate, been playing games since the 1980s and not many people could mod before 2005 without any coding skills at all. Today, anyone can mod if the game has either official tools, professional tools the games use (like unreal), or player made tools released to the public. And then there are games now, made by experienced programmers with modding in mind like the previously mentioned Empyrion Galactic Survival (this is a survival combat game with a hint of NMS in it with a large randomly created galaxy in it that can have over 10,000 star systems) that just with Notepad++ and a little knowledge of how the game is laid out, you can mod all the basics (in Notepad++) because they MADE it to be modded easily. A bunch of .ECF files with basic game information for items/creatures/blocks and then .YAML files that handles all planet data, temperature, graveity, what life/items appear and how many, planetary objects like trees, rocks and all colors associated with it, all editable...with more files that alter how many planets, star systems...you name it, it can be edited and to create a new kind of existing creature all it takes is a simple copy/paste into the correct files and assigning an ID that is opened and creating/adding a loot list for it and if you want a brand new one, only requires creating a new skin to be created and exported to BMP and placed in the right folder and have your new creature call to it.

No actual programming knowledge required...in fact, many games being made with Unity 2018 or later, are easy as hell to mod.

This is a snipit from a planets .yaml file
Seed: 1
PlanetSize: 3
PlanetAxis: 21.54195
TemperatureMinMax: [0, 45]
TemperatureNight: 7
HumidityMinMax: [0.1, 0.7]
SeaLevel: 40
TerrainLevel: 140
BaseLevel: 0
LandWaterRatio: 0.1070294
TemperatureHeightRange: [30, 50]
TemperatureGradientRange: [0.55, 0]
TemperatureNoiseFac: 0.75
HumidityHeightFac: [0, 270]
HumidityNoiseFac: 0.9

Gravity: -10.93
Radiation: 0.0
AtmosphereDensity: 1.4
AtmosphereO2: 0.2
AtmosphereBreathable: True
GroundFogIntensity: 0
GroundFogHeight: 0
AtmosphereFog: 0
PvP: False

Want a larger planet possibility, just change 3 to 4 or 5. Altering planetaxis changes suns rise/set position. Temp max, is clear raise that 45 to 50 for a much higher possible max temperature...you can change water to land ratios, effect of gravity and oxygen...all just by changing some numbers and then clicking the SAVE BUTTON...do not even need to re-cook any files or anything. That is just a TINY portion of this file, everything about a planet can be changed. Even the skys color, color of grass(if there is any)...everything...in a simple file opened in Notepad++. The only kind of better than average knowledge you would need would be if you were wanting to do animations and knowing how to do some graphics design to aid in making new skins faster. The game is so moddable you can create a TEXT FILE for your story and just import it in as long as you added in the correct contextual locations for where the text needs to be placed in the game. And if you want to create every aspect of a planet from scratch, you can do that also with one of several player made tools that does require a slight learning curve but should easily be able to nail it in a day or 4. The game isnt fully released yet, and already has more than a few full player made "scenarios" and over 100,000 player made ship designs on the Workshop.

So sorry to break it to you man, but modding is not limited like it once was. It is prolific and there are far more mods now, because its far easier to mod...not just because there are "more games" that have it and it will continue to expand as more and more companies make games with Unity and Unreal.

Finally got to Callums posts. Thank. You. Some. Faith. Restored.

Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James said:

Ark is an unreal engine game...snipped since its just a dismissal

Broadly speaking Earendil is completely right.

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Yep, when you dismiss everything that goes against a thing, its completely right.

We can just toss out the fact that over 85% of the games on modding sites like Nexus were released after 2015 or that Steams Workshop has more than 3x the amount of games using it today than it did in 2015. That hurts the narrative that GAMES ARE HARDER TO MOD! Anything, ANYTHING to not have talk about how they are hard-coding things that DO NOT NEED TO BE HARDCODED...which is what is making modding more difficult HERE.

THAT. IS. WHAT. IS. DOING. IT...not that all games everywhere are harder to mod, which is clearly a lie since we have to dismiss everything that isnt harder. It is that they are making choices that are making it harder, choices that do not have to be made...you do know there is a chance they made changes like this without KNOWING its effect? It IS possible. Sure that points to their lack of programming skills or forethought but they are human and it wont be held against them if someone sees it, and changes it. That right there is actually how games are changing...smaller developers working more openly and closely with the community and I even gave an example in the post you were quoting from which you ignored in your need to dismiss what I was saying.