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Kissaki said:

Ok, so I installed Segoroku - twice, since after the first time I noticed the historical nobori thing only applies to 3.1, and I'm still running 3.0 on 1.158 (because I'm not sure if 3.1 works for 1.15.
Did a bit of tweaking of the NPCs (and a bit surprised to find Musashi equipped with a daikyu), removed ninja-to and sakabato from the merchandise (I'll smoke out all traces of them in troops.txt later), and installed Realistic Sword Textures.

Or so I thought. I unpacked them to the textures folder, but it doesn't seem to have had any effect in-game. Indeed, I was not prompted to overwrite anything, either, when I unpacked the three files. Any advice on this?

Never mind, I discovered I had only unpacked the Readme - probably because I clicked on it to read before I unpacked. Now it's all good.

(I'm thinking of nerfing those guns, by the way - and I'll juggle the arrow stats around, too. And then there's the polearms, and the... this'll take all day. )

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Was that stupid sakabato still in the game? Could it be that it was just in the files, but not in the troop loadouts/merchant lists?
Because if it still actually pops up in the game then I had better have a talk to Hasegawa_Taizou about that, that thing is just an embarrassment that phlpp put in Gekokujo because he likes the anime that it's from, I was sure I asked Hasegawa_Taizou to get rid of it.
The ninja-to is in there for the ninja fans, maybe there will be a purist version of Sugoroku one day that does away with all the nonsense and post period things, yeah... maybe.
If you happen spot the Mongolian chopper or whatever it was called, or the overpowered wodao, let me know about it, I can't check because I'm not on the very latest version of Sugoroku.
I really want these things to be permanently removed for all eternity.

I'm also surprised about Miyamoto being an archer, how the heck did that happen? (that was a rhetorical question, I'll have to talk about Hasegawa_Taizou about that as well).
Also, do the guns still all have accuracy 100? They do right? Yeah you will definitely need to tweek them, I don't think that Hasegawa_Taizou is willing to balance their accuracy properly.

About the realistic sword texture patch: keep in mind that only so much could be done with the new textures because of how the texture maps were created for the sword models.
So you can expect to see a ray skin saya on a nodachi however unlikely that is in real life, this can't be helped without making new sword models or at least remapping the texture map.
Even so, they won't look like they have Edo period koshirae anymore, or maybe it would have been more accurate to say: modern wall hanger koshirae.

Hopefully you will be able to enjoy Sugoroku in spite of it's flaws, I know from personal experience that tweeking the files to your liking can indeed take all day.

Kissaki said:

Hmm, I can still see two of them wielding the nobori instead of wearing it.

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Apparently that had something to do with the original poster copy & pasting the code instead of replacing it...  or something like that.
Here is the post I got the pictures from:

Kissaki said:

Ichimonji Hidetora said:

Some advice: you should download the "Realistic Sword Textures by PPQ_Purple" for colors that fit the period (like black samegawa was very popular back then).
And you might also want to grab "Historical nobori bearers v1", because if you don't you will have to deal with the nobori of doom.

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Thanks for the heads up. The nobori of... doom?

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Yes, they beat the $#!+ out of you with their big nobori.
There had been many complaints about that in the past, with the patch they are worn on the back like this:

In-game:

Kissaki said:

I am mainly Gekokujo-ing on WB 1.158, by the way (v.3.0), though I have installed 3.1 for 1.168. How stable is Sugoroku for 3.1?

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It should be just as stable as Vanilla Gekokujo 3.1.
Gekokujo 3.1 does have a problem with castle gates though, running the game in edit mode should fix that.
I don't think that bug was ever fixed but I'm not sure since I was putting my free time in making weapon models, I hope to have more time soon to actually finish them.

Some advice: you should download the "Realistic Sword Textures by PPQ_Purple" for colors that fit the period (like black samegawa was very popular back then).
And you might also want to grab "Historical nobori bearers v1", because if you don't you will have to deal with the nobori of doom.

Kissaki said:

does it add sufficient goodness as to make it worth it?

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It did for me, but it's always going to come down to a matter of personal taste.
There are more guns types with Japanese gun models (unlike vanilla Gekokujo)
It has fancy straw hat types like the roningasa among others.
Helmets with hair, new kawari kabuto like the kuma gashira nari kabuto ( who doesn't want to look like a badass with a bear head shaped helmet?).
Some more armors and outfits.
I tried my best to convince Hasegawa_Taizou to keep things real, if it wasn't for that the mod would have become a Naruto mod.
Still... there might be a few black pyjama ninjer things left just to throw a bone to the ninja fanboys (don't let it bother you, you won't be able to play any mod or watch any movie if you are extremely strict about 100% historical accuracy... huh... kinda like me).
Sugoroku also has some very good looking warrior monk amor.

Not everything might be to your liking with a mod as big as Sugoroku, you may end up having to make some changes to the text files, maybe remove some items you feel are out of place.
I recommend you just download a fresh Gekokujo mod and put it on your desktop, then rename the folder to Sugoroku and install Sugoroku in that folder, then put it in Warband's module folder so you will still have your old Gekokujo mod in case you don't want Sugoroku after all.

A few armor pics:

I prefer to start with ranged weapons, either guns or bows (mounted unless it's a siege).
When I have no ammo left I'll use polearms, either a naginata or an omi-yari (mounted, and obviously not during a siege).
For foot combat I'll use a tachi, sometimes I go with a nodachi or even a katana if I don't have the other two.

So for me those are the best weapons in the game.
Of course, how good weapons actually are depends on the person who wields them.

Kissaki said:

Using the item editor, I just noticed the warabite-to. I thought it odd, because it was listed as a two-handed weapon. It lacked the merchandise flag, which explains why I never encountered it - so I flagged it as merchandise, and played a short while until it popped up in the weapons' shop. To my dismay, it just looked like a regular katana, with a slightly longer grip. Whereas a warabite-to is a short sword with a single-handed grip, and looks nothing at all like a katana:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=13946&d=1352738083&thumb=1

Some were curved, but most simply looked curved owing to the grip being set at an angle to an otherwise straight blade. Some postulate that the warabite-to was the ancestor of the katana, but there is no consensus on that point. The main piece of evidence is the existence of kenukigata warabite-to, and kenukigata-tachi which share the same features (a rectangular opening in the tang, which also is part of the grip itself; more or less straight blades set at an angle to the grip).

Anyway, the "warabite-to" in this mod is not a warabite-to at all. Just saying.

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Indeed, I'm sure that the current weapon model is just a placeholder for the warabite-to because phlpp couldn't get his hands on a warabite-to model.
The Emishi should have them, the Emishi aren't very fleshed out in Gekokujo, so it's not very surprising to see the wrong sword model being used for the warabite-to.

When I still played vanilla Gekokujo I noticed a somewhat similar problem with the guns, they just didn't do it for me.
So then I noticed that Sugoroku had some nice Japanese gun models in it and I switched to playing Sugoroku.
Back then I modified one of the gun models in order to create a bajozutsu and a hazamazutsu, more guns have been added to Sugoroku since then (I think these also include O-zutsu but I'm not sure, I can't remember).

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Kissaki said:

I'd love to see some such unique items, myself. I am particularly partial to kenukigata-tachi, especially if they have a distinct angle between the nakago and the blade (as many did).

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I wanted to model this one for some time now, but working from this picture will getting the exact sugata a bit difficult:
Also, it would be nice if I had the nagasa, motohaba, sakihaba, motokasane and sakikasane from that one.
Oh well...

Kissaki said:

so why doesn't it have its own thread in this forum? Doesn't have to be a sticky, or anything.

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Sugoroku probably doesn't have it's own thread because it started out small, it would be great if it did have it's own thread though.

Kissaki said:

At any rate, I noticed Sugoroku includes the Blood mini-mod, but the only info I have found on such a mod is one which adds huge blood sprays which was so popular in Japanese cinema for a while. If it's anything like that, and I cannot turn it off, then it's a deal-breaker for me. Blood is already exaggerated enough in vanilla as it is.

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I don't remember there being any blood fountains like in this mod: http://www.nexusmods.com/mbwarband/mods/5964/? in Sugoroku... that just looks awful, I wouldn't want that either.
However, if you are not satisfied with the blood in Sugoroku for whatever reason, you could just talk to Hasegawa_Taizou about it, he made quite a few optional files for people who requested them.

Coraline said:

One of the first things I did on Gekokujo was go Polearms for a while and I enjoyed it greatly. 

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Yeah, Polearms were, and still are my first melee weapons of choice.

Coraline said:

I was never able to enjoy using pole arms on Warband which was very tragic.  Gekokujo it's a blast using pole arms.

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It's the same for me, and not just with Warband and the old Mount&Blade before that, but with any game.
I would always just go with swords.
Sugoroku for Gekokujo is the only mod where I like to use polearms, and the only other game where I prefer polearms is Exanima (a game that is not for casual gamers).

Coraline said:

First I used those Omi Yari? Yuri? I forgot Yari a bow or spear? lol  Whatever those Omi spears, very fun.  Then I eventually graduated down to using naginatas when I go polearms on Gekokujo now.

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Yari: a spear, lance, javelin, spetum, pike or even a dart, they use the same word for all of that in Japan. what's what depends on the length, shape and use of the yari.
Yumi: a bow.
Yuri: ..... yeah, that's... how shall I put it? It's a lesbian thing.

The omi yari and naginata are the only polearms I use in the game.
They are exellent weapons for mounted combat as they have a long sweeping range whereas swords do not, I like to cut down infantry with them after my gun has no ammo left, I use a bajozutzu for mounted shooting before I do anything else.
I keep a tachi for backup, and only use it when I dismount.

ღMadolcheYumiღ said:

I, in my own personal opinion, think the Nodachi is best weapon. The only downside I can think of is the lack of thrusting attacks

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Wait a minute... you're suppost to be able to thrust with nodachi in Sugoroku, could you check if you really can't thrust with them?
And what nodachi in specific are you using? Are you playing the latest version of Sugoroku?

ღMadolcheYumiღ said:

Oh! My bad. Thanks for the correction! I do play with Sugoroku, but I just never used lancing in it. I did use lancing when I first started playing Gekokujo, so I thought lancing was still available in both Gekokujo and Sugoroku. I guess not though!~ So thanks for the clear up!

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No problem, it's good to know you're playing Sugoroku, you would have missed out on a lot of good things if you didn't.
Unfortunately, there are still many people who don't even know about Sugoroku.

Coraline said:

Ichimonji Hidetora said:

It now says "Rank 5 of 26,401", well... I'm impressed.
Why is the rank rising at such a fast pace all of a sudden? Don't tell me it's because of an army of bots voting it up or something.

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I think it's more popular than you might think.  Their are still let's plays being made for the mod in particular which is interesting for it's age.  It's one of the top conversion mods on the Steam workshop still as well.  I've tried almost a dozen conversion mods for Warband so far, and this is the only one really worth wild in my opinion.  The rest just don't "Feel" as complete even though many of them actually are, it's often just the settings they're based in just do not feel right for the gameplay.  Gekokujo feels right, and it's a lot of fun.  I can not even stand playing Vanilla anymore.  I love the no shield environment, the mix of archery/musketry and the high reliance on Pole Arms, something you really don't see on other Warband mods.    Archery, Horse Archery, and Pole Arms in general were insanely weak on Warband Vanilla, mostly because Shields would just absorb arrows like nothing else, and shields also made it difficult to use pole arms, negating their reach advantages.    The mountainous terrian of Japan also makes Cavalry insanely less over powered.  Every version of Warband and definitely With Fire and Sword, Cavalry dominates like 2/3s of the map.  In this mod that is considerably different.  The combination of no shields, and mountain terrain = it's much harder for a force of say 20-50 cavalry to just stomp formations of troops. lol

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Thanks for sharing your opinion with me, I often wonder why people like Gekokujo because for me the reasons are mainy because I own antique Japanese armor and swords, so it would make sense for me to like the mod for that reason alone.
I can certainly relate to the overpowered shield and cavalry reasons though, it breaks the game for me when a shield can magically stop an arrow that clearly hit the lower leg of my target simply because of an invisible forcefield that extends beyond the model of the shield.
And cavalry has always been ridiculous in Mount&Blade, the ability to skewer opponent after opponent with the couched lance technique without having to come to a stop, drop your lance or break your lance... it's just silly.

Uesugi Kenshin said:

Just wondering, is there traditions for bowmaking similar to the Soshu, Bizen, Mino, Muramasa, Masamune, etc... for blades? Because  yumi bows seem redundant in comparison (and throwing weapons are the worst only shurikens and stones where are my fire bombs and throwing kunais?) Also how the bows are made i am curious to hear about.

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There were certainly schools of bowyers, like there was a famous yumishi (bowyer) who worked in Satsuma for the Shimazu, at some point he moved to Kyoto, he worked at the time when guns were up and coming, in spite of that his bows were very popular.
I forgot his name though... I do know that there were more generations who used his name, all the way to the 19th century... I think the school still exists today, probably working for the Imperial household.
Obviously there must have been more famous schools as quite a few bows were signed by their maker, but I'm not familliar enough with the subject to know them, and it's many years ago since I looked into the subject.

Uesugi Kenshin said:

ღMadolcheYumiღ said:

Blacksmith Weapon Improvements. Maybe a way to pay for an upgraded weapon or to upgrade your sword? I mean, a samurai's life is revolved around their katanas, so "making" your own weapons VIA blacksmiths in towns could make the game more immersive for the player. If anyone has any thoughts on my suggestions, please elaborate on them!

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I like that and maybe you can have like one blacksmith for each tradition in different towns like Brytenwalda: for example the Masamune blacksmith can be in Kyoto and craft you the fastest blade in all Japan with the prefix of your choice for a supplement 

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Uhmm... what can I say? Masamune died during the 14th century, he was a swordsmith of the Kamakura period.
Also, Masamune is the most famous Soshu tradition swordsmith, so unsurprisingly he worked in Soshu, also known as Sagami no kuni. (see picture).
Of course there were also swordsmiths in (or very close to) Kyoto, for example: the Yamashiro tradition had a school active at the Buddhist temple Kuramadera, located at a very short distance North of Kyoto (you can find the place on Google maps if you search for Kurama-dera temple).

Goutlard said:

Ichimonji Hidetora said:

Anyway, it should be obvious that a sharasaya is not suitable for combat use just by looking at it, it's just a simple wooden hilt for holding the sword, so there is nothing to prevent your hand from slipping.

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And in actual combat the lack of a Tsuba would be really.. Really a disadvantage.
I mean, now that I have gotten used to it, many swings I catch end up on the tsuba, if I lacked one with the style I am using, I'd loose all of my fingers too easily.

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Yeah, it's a well known problem for any sword mounted in aikuchi koshirae (a guardless sword or dagger).
In spite of the obvious problems with swords that lack a tsuba, they were still quite popular during the Sengoku jidai, this is no doubt because their owners did not expect to do much if any sword fighting anyway.
So the guardless sword would be a bit more comfortable to wear, and that's also why aikuchi koshirae is most often seen on short blades such as tanto and shoto, as tanto were mostly used when grappling with the enemy, and shoto such as kodachi and koshigatana (now better known as wakizashi) where mostly used for suicide, and only occasionally for combat.

Some examples of Tensho aikuchi koshirae for swords:

ღMadolcheYumiღ said:

Wait. Are we talking about "couching" as in lance couching on horseback? Or is it "crouching" as in kneeling down on one knee?

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Yes, it's about jousting.
The op just got the word wrong, many people end up using the word crouching, that's probably because they think the word couching doesn't sound right to them.

ღMadolcheYumiღ said:

Couching is still there and a yari spear should be able to couch. As for crouching and kneeling down, I'm pretty sure you can crouch in the latest version of Gekokujo. Correct me if I get anything wrong!

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As the title of the topic says, the op is talking about the Sugoroku sub-mod for Gekokujo.
Don't tell me you're playing vanilla Gekokujo?
You should really consider upgrading to Sugoroku then, it adds a lot of items like armor and weapons to the game and it's also more historically accurate then vanilla Gekokujo.
The removal of the couched lance technique in Sugoroku was done for the sake of historical accuracy, as they just didn't do things that way in Japan.

You can read all about Sugoroku and download it here if you want it: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,305602.msg7484470.html#msg7484470
Do make sure you check out all of the optional add-on downloads for Sugoroku that are posted there as well.

Kharille said:

Double pegged?  Better look this up on google. 

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Yeah, it looks like he likes to use two mekugi to pin the tang of the blade into the tsuka, you can clearly see an example of two pegs in the hilt here:
http://www.ryansword.com/hand-forged-maru-clay-tempered-japanese-samurai-nodachi-ninja-sword-ryan853-p-676.html
People first did that in order to sell more swords then their competition, they claimed that two pegs were better then one because if it had only one mekugi and it would snap in half then a blade may come flying out of it's hilt...
Yeah... it's stupid.
Even if a mekugi did snap, the bamboo peg would not end up in two seperate pieces, so the blade could not just come flying out when you swing the sword.
Also, if the tsuka properly fits the tang then it could still require some effort to take the blade out of the hilt because in that case it would not be loose, although it is easier for wakizashi and tanto to take the blade out of the hilt simply because they have a short tang.

So saying that two mekugi are better then one is just as silly as stating that two steering wheels are better then one just in case one of them breaks so the salesman can claim better safety for the cars he's selling

Kharille said:

Swung the sword, then pulled it back and grasped the blade.  I really need a longer handle.

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Aha, just in case you don't know: blades mounted in a shirasaya are not intended for actual use, the shirasaya is only meant to protect the blade against corrosion.
If a sword is complete, it should include both a shirasaya and a proper koshirae for combat (or ceremonial purposes).
Antique Japanese swords often only have a shirasaya because when the Japanese had to hand over their swords to the Americans after the end of WWII, they often kept the valuable koshirae, and so many of the sword blades got separated from their koshirae, those swords were handed over in their cheap shirasaya.

Anyway, it should be obvious that a sharasaya is not suitable for combat use just by looking at it, it's just a simple wooden hilt for holding the sword, so there is nothing to prevent your hand from slipping.

Kharille said:

Years back, in the 90's I managed to swing a heavy wakizashi replica onto my shin.  Fortunately the cut was only, 5mm deep....  and the blade took off an inch of skin, somehow the blade came off sideways and scraped that off.  Glad I still got two legs....

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Sounds like you did not hit your leg squarely, that's very lucky because if the blade did hit you properly then the injury could have been much worse, unless it's one of those blunt wallhangers.

Kharille said:

Just bought another one. 
http://www.ryansword.com/high-quality-clay-tempered-abrasive-japanese-samurai-shihozume-wakizashi-sword-ryan797-p-622.html

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It looks like people are still willing to buy double pegged swords, when I first saw one of those I had hoped that this silly fad would pass quickly as customers would demand at least some authenticity for their swords.
Then again, it makes telling a replica sword from an authentic sword very easy, even for people who would otherwise not be able to tell if a sword is authentic or not, so I guess it's a good thing that they're double pegged after all then.

Kharille said:

The last shirasaya I bought I cut my hand accidently grasping the blade.

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So... how did you manage to do that?

phlpp said:

Here is the 3.1 beta module system source code: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B29QA_i8Xg9iLW5LSTJlblBvcFk/view?usp=sharing

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Thanks for sharing that, maybe someone will pick up where you left off.

Yeah... that's a well known directx7 problem, we get that question every now and then.
In fact, someone asked that very question today: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,351479.0.html