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gsanders said:

some of these are appealing to me.  I'll tell you straight up -- I'm less interested in uber buffing necros, regardless of the audience enthusiasm, but ideas like THIS I might be willing to implement.  But it's NOT a democracy.  My time is set by me only.  When its your time, you can spend it how you wish.

  - GS

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That's obvious, gsanders. Your mod, your choice. However my personal policy regarding making suggestions is as follows: If I can think of something that has even the slightest of chances to catch on and being implemented, I'll suggest it. I prefer to shoot a 1000 ideas out, even if 999 of them would get shot down and only 1 would stick - it's still 1 more thing for the mod I like. That being the case, I hope you don't mind me shooting further ideas and if you don't, then don't treat my posts as any sort of demands, as it's not the intention behind them

I know it's probably (or rather most definitely) often asked question, but since I haven't found it in the fresh posts, I'll ask:

Since you've joined the mod force, gsanders (and thank you for that, you majestic beast! ) how likely do you find it to ever incorporate Freelancer (or at least similar mechanics, even if simplified) to Phantasy?

Also - great work as always! Thanks guspav and gsanders

Eye of Morgoth said:

A summoner spell set, weak summoned creatures, like a zombie, last a battle while powerful ones, like an immortal, only lasts secounds.

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I'm not sure whetner or not it's true, but I've heard that the game's engine is pretty limited when it comes to sudden addition of troops mid-battle. Dunno if it could somehow be added through a hocus-pocus-dancing with reinforcements system, but for all I know, effects that instantly add troops are problematic and that's why in Phantasy, a necromancer only ressurects dead enemies after the battle, not during it.
But I might be wrong.

MadBull543 said:

Kubin said:

But the skill "Demonology" is somewhat tricky, since there's skill limit in the game engine - you can swap existing skill with whatever you want, but alas, you can't add a new one.

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Not true. Yes, there is a limit, but Phantasy still has 11 reserved skills free.

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Really? Damn. I didn't know that Every other mod I've ever seen has only had replacement skills, not additional ones. Why do people do that if there's indeed so many skill slots?
Anyway - that's a great news and I now hope to see what skills Guspav comes up with next

Epicspencer said:

Kubin said:

LordFishius said:

Also I thought about a Demonlogy skill that lets you summon demons..

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There was a similar idea of Volker32 that I've put my 2 cents into:
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,305004.msg8405425.html#msg8405425

But the skill "Demonology" is somewhat tricky, since there's skill limit in the game engine - you can swap existing skill with whatever you want, but alas, you can't add a new one.

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It could be combined with necromancy and just turn that whole school into black magic. Summoning demons seems like something a Lich would do for **** and giggles.

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Converting necromancy to Black Magic (or Dark Arts or whatever you'd want to call it) could actually be a good thing, conjoined with my previous idea regarding magic users. Hear ye, hear ye: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,305004.msg8224754.html#msg8224754

Based on this idea, you could choose what kind of dark mage to become (necromancer, demon caller, a witch/warlock [strong debuff spells in mind]) when advancing in the skill levels. And it could be extended beyond magic classes, because why not? When advancing in Weapon Master, for example, you could choose "<weapon type> mastery" and automatically gain +XXX points to chosen weapon (whilst limiting the max skill in all others, perhaps?). And you COULD do it, but you wouldn't have to - if you'd like to remain an all-rounder, go for it.

What do you think?

LordFishius said:

Also I thought about a Demonlogy skill that lets you summon demons..

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There was a similar idea of Volker32 that I've put my 2 cents into:
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,305004.msg8405425.html#msg8405425

But the skill "Demonology" is somewhat tricky, since there's skill limit in the game engine - you can swap existing skill with whatever you want, but alas, you can't add a new one.

Volken32 said:

New class suggestion - Cultist: Can summon demons but at a price - summoning a demon requires a sacrifice. The player has to sacrifice minimum 3 regular party members to summon a demon. The type of demon summoned this way depends on the level of the Summoning skill of the cultist and the number of party members sacrificed. Sacrificing party members will lower your reputation with the faction that shares the same culture of the people sacrificed, making it harder for the player to recruit troops of that culture/faction. Sacrificing soldiers from the player faction has no penalty.

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I very much support this idea Although two small tweaks I'd add to it would be:

- Sacrificing your own party members rapes your morale...
- ... unless it's an unit from cultist troop tree (the demon "grey" faction?).
- Or you can sacrifice prisoners instead, with lesser chance for a good summon.

Sacrificing things like undeads or demons themselves shouldn't work, though, unless we'd like a kind of "merging" mechanics where "sacrifice 3 tier1 demons to get 1 tier2 demon" is a thing


EDIT: Also, since guspav does a wonderful job at making classes more and more unique, perhaps the Cultist class wouldn't be immediately attacked by any demons in sight? Maybe if he approached the demon party while having enough living units (be it party or prisoners) he or she could give them up to boost your relationship with the Demon faction. At the very beggining it would be a simple toll - "Give us your people or we'll kill you all", then more like a tribute from the "faithful" cultist and in the end - as a equal bargain, to gain some demon troops of various tiers. How about that?

Regarding rogues:

After I saw people here say "pickpocket in most mods is useless" and after watching one of the Bannerlord showcases, I thought - why don't let the rogues be stealthy on more industrial scale? Why not raise to power through crime?

To make "advanced" criminal actions, you'd have to be a rogue yourself or have at least one companion who's a rogue. Advanced actions could be some of those:

- "Planting" bandits in a city to steal, rob and intimidate people, making a profit for you, with a chance for the band to get blasted by the guards in which case you lose the people* you put in there (explanation below this list) and on "critical fail" someone would rat you out and you'll lose honor and relations with that particular city and its lord. Also, the crime in the city would negatively impact its economy.
- Stealing supplies from villages (yes, stealing, not "forcing to give away" - more subtlety please ). A quiet alternative to just robbing them. Results in the "relations" lose and possibly honor, too (on crit fails?).
- Stealing/sabotage of supplies in an enemy party, possibly slowing them down or mowing their morale a bit (if NPCs even use morale on campaign map). May result in a fight (most of the time that'd equal annihilation of your thieves).
- Sabotage of sieged city's supplies to shorten their time-to-surrender (I believe someone above has already suggested this).
- Possibly an option to "stalk" a village (kill/rob/harass any villagers party that leaves it). To worsen its city's economy over time, instead of razing the village right off the bat). If that makes any sense for the game whatsoever.
- Prison-breaking selected (or random?) units from enemy prisons (not parties, I think).
- Occupying a on-map bridge to collect a toll from (selectable) passing targets. Selection could be something like a checklist of "Farmers, Bandits, Caravans, War Parties (lol, who would try to toll a war party? xP)" and possibly a number box to type a "max size of robbed party" in, so you don't send your 10-men bandit group on 65-men caravan like a moron. May result in fight if the enemy party isn't intimidated enough and wants to fight back.
- And so on...

Now to explain: Why did I say "lose the people" and generally mentioned your "parties"? Because I propose that every "criminal" unit in the game has its own, uh, "rogue power" (terrible, I know, it's a placeholder name). The weakest bandits have the least, while the better ones have more. Rogue power would boost (but never replace!) your PC or companion's rogue abilities. The general idea is that:

- The smaller your criminal party, the harder it is to catch them (they're keeping together, less loose ends etc.).
- The greater your "rogue power", the better. That consist of both your bandit units' tiers and your PC/companion's Looting.
- In short: The best criminal party is a few of GOOD bandits, while the worst is a big crowd of low-tier wannabe robbers. Why? To cut "just spam endless bandits and you'll be fine" tactic.

Additionally, but not nearly necessarily - there could also be specific units like "thief", "spy", "saboteur" etc. that would give much more bonus to the action of their type, so saboteur will be better at sabotage than, say, a thief of the same tier. More of an addon (prolly unnecessary one, too) than anything crucial.

To form a crime party you'd have 2 options:

- Lead it yourself (must be a rogue). It occupies the PC so it's best to focus on one-time-event crime actions like stealing or sabotage, instead of collecting a toll or stalking a village, because it's damn boring. Also - you'd have to keep your party small and preferably consisting of high-tier bandits.
- Make a rogue companion the leader. This temporarily detaches your companion and selected troops so they can enjoy their criminal acts while you're roaming the lands to make a profit elsewhere.


And that's basically it for now. Thoughts?

guspav said:

Well, I managed to do a few interesting things

First off, I made it possible for non-fighter characters to become fighters through a series of fights against some powerful warriors via the trainer at the training grounds. After defeating the 5 tiers, the player character will get 100 points in the chosen specialization and 3 points in weapon master.

On another note, I added specialized skeletons to the necromancer's menu, so you can go the chaotic way and get whatrever fate wishes or you can choose your skeleton warriors carefully (after your necromancy score is 6 or more) and because a picture is worth more than a thousand words... lookie!

Spoiler

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Awesomecookie, mate! It was driving me crazy that skeleton knights were sometimes mounted and sometimes on foot. Now I can make a proper, organised undead army! Thank you so much

Brougal said:

for necromancers, would it be possible to make same sort of script for low-level undead troops as orcs have in TLD? as in 3 orcs cost 1 party limit

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CHIMouttathisplane said:

Like a reverse of the Light&Darkness trick to make elite troops cost 2 or 3 troop slots?

It'd be nice to implement it in Phantasy Calradia, since there are a lot of troops that are weaker than the average Native soldier, and a lot of troops that are stronger than the average Native soldier.

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I wasn't even aware that such possibility exists. In this case, I'm absolutely, positively, 100% supportive to this idea Both for the "trashmob horde" feel with the weaker mobs and for more careful unit selection by the mid-late game, since for now the only real drawback to having silver golems army is its cost, and we all know that later on money isn't that much of an issue.

Also - it'd open a nice way for some cost balancing. Some of the high-end units' cost could be reduced BUT they'd eat up much more party space. This could fit undead especially good, I think, because WHY the hell are we even paying the summoned undead? What are they spending it on? With such balance, the better the undead, the more "concentration" it would need from the necromancer to be bound to his/her will, thus the unit slot cost (skeleton knight would require a lot more concentration to remain under your control that a mere bottom-tier zombie).

This could create a indirect buff to undead, though. If Guspav would reduce their coin cost for the sake of the unit limit cost, they would become more sustainable in castles and stuff, since those have no limits to the party size, thus no "concentration" issues. That actually goes for all units that would have a part of their upkeep squeezed into the unit limit.

What do you guys think?

CHIMouttathisplane said:

The invisible rider trick is buggy as ****.

Look at the garbage **** that goes on when you fight zombie dogs in Final Invasion.

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I've never played the Final Invasion, but what I had in mind is hunting in some mods. There are deer, wolves, boars etc. all killable without bugs. Most worthwhile example would be Viking Conquest DLC - in there, the boars even attack you as you hunt them - maybe the answer lays in there?

FrijolitoJR said:

guspav said:

aboshady89 said:

I know  its  a dream  is there  will be  any (Dragons)  here ?

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I can't think of a way of making them, so in short: No.

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I see. So the usual way for "animal" creatures won't work? I mean - modders usually do it by making an actual NPC, giving it special armor set that makes them invisible, a good weapon (also invisible) and put them on mounts that are visible, so in this case a dragon would be the mount. While making the dragon-mount it would be needed for the rider to be seated near its head and such NPC should be a mage (if possible, equipped with only fireball and flame arrow to simulate "dragon breath").

However I don't know how do the modders make it so when you kill the mount, the invisible rider dies as well

But yeah - if that wouldn't be possible then well, I can live without the dragons

Also an idea (unrelated to good vs evil stuff above, hence a separate post):

Would it be possible to make some kind of Megabeasts that would be one-man-army (or more like one-creature ) to roam Calradia? By megabeasts I mean Dragons and some other very powerful entities capable of slaying whole armies by themselves and - what would be very imporant - raid villages (to add both immersion and to force people to actually deal with such beasts instead of avoiding them).

This is just an idea for a basic mechanics (just a non-human, ridiculously strong mob), but if dragons and such would "visit" Calradia, then after some time they could be expanded so they have a Lair they periodically return to, storing all kinds of treasures and possibly offspring that would defend it and maaaybe over the in-game months grow up and become (much weaker at first) separate megabeasts.

FrijolitoJR said:

It should be based in Honor too , bad guys can kill and eat prisioners but good guys can't.
(or it could be like in TLD)

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I somewhat agree, but it depends on perspective.

One may say - "He's good and he can't do it!"

While another would say - "By doing that he's gravitating towards evil."

And I'm in the middle. I do agree that a holy knight who's been always helping people etc. wouldn't canibalize people out of the blue (because why would he?), but on the other hand - it's still a player's choice and if (for any reason) he'd like to lose his honour and become evil, he shouldn't be held back from doing so because if too many "You're good, you can't do it." signs are put on things, the choice of the path will be limited to the very beginning.

Unless there would be several choices during quests, for example. Like - "You've rescued that kid, but if you sacrifice him, you'll get a superhyperdestroyer sword +3000!" in an attempt to simulate a character becoming "corrupt". Or maybe a powerful item that drains your honor every day? (The One Ring in mind - it was very corrupting).

But then again - the more immersion we wish for, the more guspav would have to code so some ideas aren't really "economical" in regards of work-outcome ratio.

FrijolitoJR said:

Kubin said:

Does Magic Defense protect against Turn Undead (because it kinda protects a lich-player against white bolt, doesn't it?).

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I think no , white bolt is a spell but turn undead is a cleric skill...
Clerics represent the power of their gods..its kinds confusing but I think it doesn't and it shouldn't.

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Shouldn't for sure. But whetner or not it does? Only guspav knows Thanks for response, though!

SmurfInHell said:

jl0905 said:

help guys i used cheats and created a god necromancer pls help he's rekting everything.

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If you need a cleric to purge the Lich I may have someone available... It's my speciality.

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About that, a newbie question - does Magic Defense protect against Turn Undead (because it kinda protects a lich-player against white bolt, doesn't it?).

^ True, my bad. How about something like this, then?

In my opinion some of the things that lift morale up could be seen in the mod. Based on other mods:
- Buying ale for your army in taverns (double for dwarves, perhaps?)
- Passive morale gain from just traveling (or resting?) while the player or their companions have Entertain skill trained (no need to "play in town" and it'd make companion bards useful).

And some more in-depth thing:

Perhaps adding some stuff like expanding the choice of "what to do with the prisoners" would be good?

- Release them: Goodies are happy.
- Execute them: Baddies are happy.
- Imprison them: No change.
- Cannibalize then: Baddies are HAPPY, goodies are MAD. (Maybe a possibility for a take-out? You take the prisoners as an item in inventory (good morale boosting food type) and slowly eat them along your way, but everyday goodies are losing morale). Losing honour.
- Help them out: You are a noble soul and you not only release your prisoners, but you give them some food and water (if possible to code - it should drain 1 unit of random food per helped prisoner. If not - then perhaps it'd take just a random stack of food as a whole). Goodies are in heavens when you do that, baddies are raging. Gain honour.

The above would have both roleplay value and would be a nice addition to help balance your morale.

FrijolitoJR said:

I got a suggestion:
No more native morale issues for Necromancer Players (or when they get transformed into lichdom)
The ways you lose morale are by :
Starvation...(Already included in Lichdom)
Losing Battles...
Recruiting War Prisoners...
Fighting too many times a day...
Waging war against faction-based troop's home...
Failing Quests...
Party Size...


  Why would a Undead/Orc army care about that stuff?

Edit:
Orcs would be mad at starvation and losing battles. (maybe party size too)

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+1

I've never understood why (aside of rough balance issues) would party morale suffer from its size. If anything it should rise with size, I mean, man - "There's many of us! Everyone will fear us!" kind of thinking.

Maybe make it so your party gains morale the bigger it is but to restrict it a bit, don't make it 1:1 as it is now. Perhaps +1 morale every 10 soldiers would be balanced. And undeads wouldn't even care (and so - undeads don't count towards the bonus).

+1 to boosted lichdom.

Faster mana regen, perhaps? But that's for mage-liches and since the magic and necromancy are (for now) separate, it'd favor mages too much while not giving anything of value to lich-warriors. FrijolitoJR's morale boost to evils seems good and pretty cross-class.

Or perhaps split lichdom into 2 different versions? One will remain lich (add mana regen, morale to undead) and the other would be some kind of Deathlord, which would stand for more warrior-styled necromancer, suffering the same negatives, but having more strenght instead of intelligence and hard hp bonus instead of mana regen, and also the morale bonus to undead. Both lich and deathlord would share the same ritual - you'd just have 2 options instead of 1 after collecting all the materials.

Thanks for the support, guys Glad ye like it!


Also one more thing from me: As I was pondering on Creativity and how nice it goes on Berembert, I thought how much better it could be if it wasn't a skill for just one NPC in the game (it's a bit too restrained for something that takes up one of so few skill slots in the game). I came up with giving the player ability to use Creativity (tied with Engineering or even Magic Power in some rare occasions) and restraining it by "Lore" thing, so the player wouldn't have all the juicy stuff just because he has the skill.

Lore could be a thing that would be obtained only (or mostly) by befriending a faction. It'd either be passively unlocked by:

A. Just a check for faction_relation > X and then the player automatically gets an "invention" in his new Camp Menu subcategory - "Tinkering". This is somewhat limiting, because in this system, the player would magically "forget" about such an invention, should he lose relations with said faction.

B: Befriending a faction would unlock an option to learn lores by purchasing schematics (mimics the system of scrolls and spell learning). This however would limit possible cross-racial inventions, should Guspav want such, as schematics would be per item rather than just general things.

C. Books! Dem wonderful books <3 This is an option I'd favor. Lore books that would pop up in faction merchants when player's relation with them is good (if such thing is possible, if not then just buying it like schematics), be granted as a reward for some quests (why not?), sometimes be found on Book Merchant and veeeery rarely as a loot from faction's lords warbands. Ideally such books wouldn't provide a prepared set of items to craft, but instead just give a lore points themselves (checkable in "Tinkering" camp submenu).

Also: A player should start with at least some lore of the race/nation he chooses upon character creation.

Given we'd choose option C, the tinkering menu would give the player an option to "Invent" that'd take time and cost money "for resources". The outcomes would be:
- Fail: You could have invent something, but you didn't.
- Lack of knowledge: You've already invented everything you could with your current skills and lores. Expand your knowledge.
- Success: Player invents a random item from the hidden list that's created based on player skills (creativity, engineering, perhaps magic power, maybe some others) and lores of different races (cross-racial items would most likely be a damn rarity, but still it would be nice to have them). The invention would be then visible in the "tinker" action, which is:

Tinker - here the player can see all his inventions and by clicking on one of them, he'd see everything he needs to provide in order to tinker (Lichdom ritual collectibles system would be suitable for that). Given that there's all the process of skilling, obtaining the lore, and collecting the materials, I think that the tinkering itself should always succeed.

And what could we tinker with such system? Hell... anything Guspav allows us to! Some of my ideas (note that I'm not providing the information regarding on how much lore and skills would be needed to invent those things. This is a balance issue I'd gladly help Guspav with if he'd even consider implemeting my idea):

Dwarven Lore:
- Blunderbuss: A shotgun-style firearm that has laughable range, next to zero accuracy, but fires in a great cone (akin to missile storm) of bullets, dealing enormous damage. Basically a cavalry-stopper and peasant-genocide-machine. Would use grapeshot ammo instead of normal cartiges (maybe tinkering a blunderbuss would automatically give 1 of those? Or make it a separate invention of the most basic lvl of Dwarven lore). Made from a good amount of iron, oil, cartridges, tools and money.
- Smoke Grenade (perhaps under some more fancy name): Akin to Berembert's flasks, a thrown weapon that applies Darkness spell in small AoE, but doesn't spread to others as the spell itself does. Made from oil, tools, darkness scroll, and money.
- Siege Arquebus: If it's even possible to make a weapon that'd have collision like shield, then it'd be just an arquebus (stat-wise) but it'd shield you from enemy fire while you aim. Made from an arquebus, a tower shield / pavise, tools, some iron, and money.
- Dwarven Liquor: Who said all inventions must be battle-ready? This is a good quality dwarven alcohol to boost your army's morale! High morale bonus Made from wine, spice and fruit (nothing expensive since it's a finite item of mediocre value).
- Pistol: Nothing special. Just a one-handed mini-arquebus with less range and damage. Shorter reload.

Dwarven/Gnomish Lore:
- Longshot: Basically a sniper rifle. Accurate as hell, great range and damage, but looooongass reload. Made with arquebus, tools, spyglass (invention at the bottom of my post), iron and cash.
- Rotary Pistol: Fantasy-style "revolver" with many barrels instead of a revolver magazine. Not too much damage, but a great sidearm overall as it gets up to 6 shots each reload.

Dwarven/Drow (yep, I know how it sounds, but there's just one item! ) Lore:
- Muffleshot (or Assassin's Arquebus): Stat-wise it's an arquebus, perhaps a bit weaker, but it acts as "stealthy" weapon.

Gnomish Lore:
- Basically all current Berembert's inventions.
- Rocket Boots: Make you jump higher and farther (if possible - with some fiery visuals) and if possible: makes your kick much more deadly. If it's possible to code a new jumping mechanics for those boots alone, it'd be good if you could control the lenght of your flight by holding space (to scale a wall in sieges, for example).
- Clockwork Steed: A mechanical horse to meet your steampunk needs. Not the fastest, but due to being a hunk of metal, it'd have a ridiculous armor and a punch (high charge value). Also greatly reduces the map travel speed penalty from carrying too heavy stuff (as far as I know, horses do that anyway while kept in inventory, but clockwork steed should have a greater impact if possible).

Wizard Lore:
- Traveler's Boots: Make you run faster (not as fast as haste, but should stack with it when cast). Should be done as plain speed boost, not as +X to atlethics, to be useful even for full-time warriors.
- Wizard's Ring: Restores mana the same way as Healer's ring restores hp. AoE included. Made from Healer's Ring, mithril, and some gem.

Gnomish/Wizard Lore:
- Clockwork Golem: A tinker that gives you a troop instead of an item, of course. Clockwork golem would be a ranged golem of steampunk-ish looks, equipped with a repeating crossbow. As usual for golems - he'd be tough and magic resistant.

Dwarven/Wizard Lore:
- Mystic Arquebus: This isn't a powerful weapon by itself, as it's just a hella expensive (in tinkering: made from mithril, gold, gems etc.) arquebus with pretty short reload, but its true power is its ammo, as follows:
- Magic Cartridge: Shoots a single, strong magic missile, very accurate and with huge ammo capacity. Made from magic missile scroll and some stuffz.
- Magic Grapeshot: Shoots a missile storm. Made from missile storm scroll (of course) and some stuff.
- Thundershot: Shoots a lightning bolt. Quite limited ammo capacity. Made from you know what.
- Basically any other missile type spell. I'd be careful with fireball, though.

I know that giving magic to non-mages is controversial, but consider this: With arquebus you're limited to TOPS 3 different type of spell and that's only if you discard any other type of weapon or shield, while mages can summon stuff from thing air and have many spells. Also - your ammo is finite and DOESN'T come back as mage spells do with mana. Also - regardless of spell you mimic, you can't use arquebus while mounted and as non-mage you likely won't have Haste to save your ass (unless Traveler's boots). On top of that - you'll still have to reload. Mages do no such thing.

Blazing Hand Lore:
- Holy Hand Grenade (yep, I couldn't resist): A handful of grenades that wreck undeads either by AoE White Bolt effect (but then it'd heal the living) or by mimicking Turn Undead if possible (that'd be favourable). Double points if it'd look and sound like the original from Worms. Hallelujah! Made from holy symbol, iron and oil.


Some loose ideas. Dunno which lore would be best:

- Spyglass: Improves spotting range on map travel. Preferably it should do it on top of spotting skill instead of adding to it so even 10lv spotting parties could enjoy it, but +X spotting would be good enough if that's the only way.
- Masterwork Medical Tools: Made from tools, linen, iron and cash. Player must have any of the 3 medical skills at level 2 or 3 to invent this. While in party's inventory, this will boost medical capabilities beyond skills. It'd just mimic the effects of first aid, surgery and wound treatment to some degree and stack it with party's medical skills (even if anyone has them all trained to 10). If not - same as spyglass: +X to surgery, first aid and wound treatment.


What do you think, guys?