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Player Name: Brahms
Main Class: Infantry
Main Gamemode Played:Skirmish, TDM
Your Country: United States
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198034607058/

Yeah, that's a serious problem. While we're mentioning problems with siege, killing a server at the end of a match needs to be remedied. Requiring players to rejoin servers which may take 30 seconds to re-appear in the list and causes the playerbase to split off (e.g. some go to TDM, some go to siege) and some just quit is unfortunate especially when the active multiplayer userbase is as small as it is.

Alfonso_M said:

Two handers classes has been the meta since the patch 1.5.0. It wasnt always like that, it was a time when archers and thrown weapons dominate the matches, but that was before they nerfed the speed to aim and make it imposible to cover with your shield while the javelin is on thrown mode ( which is something i agree) But right now, doesnt matter if it is Skirmish, Captain, TDM or Siege, two handers class are everywhere and dominate the game.

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You're forwarding this claim as self-evident but it's contentious--I still see shields as widespread in skirmish mode. I never play captain mode so I won't comment on that, mostly skirmish/TDM/siege for me. I use two-handers primarily (though still using 1 handers and shields frequently) because it's more interesting gameplay in my view, directional blocking is one of the primary game mechanics you're essentially skipping with a shield; that makes them easier to use but again not really what I personally want to practice. If my team is losing I find myself more likely to grab a class with a shield so I have a better chance of not getting shot, better survivability. I also find that certain two-handed weapons are already so slow (menavlion: speed 78 or 74/71 for long/heavy variants) that I avoid them if I expect to be in 1v1s as opposed to team fights. You can get spammed repeatedly if you aren't extremely quick on the draw and even then it's risky versus someone who is facehugging you with a 1 hander.

Alfonso_M said:

So, beofre exposing my ideas about how rebalance this class, first lets take a moment to see this class (Sidenote: Some of this ideas could apply for weapons that are used by other classes like Ranger or Warrior)
Two handers class has:
-More health than anyone: 110. (except guards, 100)

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The way you're phrasing this is misleading--it's obvious that armor advantages can easily outweigh a health advantage. Looking at health in isolation is a bad way to summarize survivability. Two handed classes have extremely weak shields if they have any just to close the distance, comparing Menavlion Infantry to Legionary it's obvious that the former at 110 HP and (a max of) 16 armor is more vulnerable than the class with 100 HP, a (maximum of) 50 armor and a shield with 140 or 220 durability. If my only goal was to tank hits it's obvious that Voulgier's 110 HP 12 or 21 armor depending on perks is more vulnerable than the sergeant with 100 HP, up to 46 armor, and a shield with as much as 225 durability.

Alfonso_M said:

-Faster than anyone in their faction. (Except aserai, they are equals to skirmish class)

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Brigand/berserker are 81/82--I don't see why Sturgia's heavy inf (Varyag: 77) should be as fast as units which are drastically more vulnerable to any sort of damage than it is. Varyag has 48 armor, 10 or 6 for Brigand/Berserker, makes sense the units which are basically naked are marginally faster.

This is a similar pattern for other factions. What should be most notable here is that even the slowest units are not so slow that they can't catch the fastest units when backpedalling. If a sharpshooter is chasing me with a 1 hander and I'm backpedalling as berserker, it's not the case that my backpedalling is faster than their forward movement. This would be a really serious problem if the speed differences were that great between any two classes, since the faster class (if it had or could get a reach advantage) would be untouchable. This isn't the case for the current game as would be obvious to anyone who has tried backpedalling with a menavlion. This isn't a big deal and it seems reasonable that the classes wearing 10 times as much armor are going to be a bit slower, this just means that heavy infantry can't successfully run away from people with almost no armor over very long distances. You can still run away, it just means you'll eventually get caught if the guy chasing you is naked and you're wearing as much armor as anyone can wear.

Alfonso_M said:

-Deadliest weapons. (They deals a lot of damage with each hit, move faster than one handers and great length)

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If they didn't do more damage nobody would use them, because they're almost always slower (you're mostly wrong about that part). If you're dealing with the major disadvantage of not having a shield, or having a very weak one only which breaks after 1 pilum, and you have to actually think about blocking (unlike people with shields), I think it's only fair that your weapon hits harder. Let's point to the elephant in the room here which is that having to block feints is infinitely easier with a shield than it is with a two hander and your ability to just survive for several seconds in a team fight if you get cornered is much greater without having to actively block, and you obviously are much better able to press against ranged classes with a shield.

Speed: the fastest two handers (e.g. two handed swords for Aserai/Vlandia) are not faster than most one-handed swords (excepting the fastest one of all, the falx at speed 100) and they sacrifice an enormous amount of damage to be the faster weapon choice of the specific class. Specifically, you lose 51 damage (153 vs 102) if you bring the two-handed sword (93 speed) instead of the bardiche (86 speed) as the Aserai guard. The Voulgier's slower weapon with 127 damage has 86 speed (Voulge) the faster 2-handed sword has 93 speed, 96 damage. Comparatively, one handers: legionary sword is 94 speed/64 damage, Heavy Ild for Khuzaits is 93 speed/73 damage, Kaskara for Skirmisher is 93 speed/68 damage, Imperial heavy axe is 98 speed/85 damage, Western mace is 96 speed/46 damage. There is only one two hander, the falx, which is faster than any of these, and you give up a big reach/damage advantage by taking it instead of the Rhomphaia.

Alfonso_M said:

-A shield by default. (It has 20 hp, but it already protect them from 1 hit/javelin and 2 arrows. This, plus their speed, make the archers/javelins completely useless to counter them)

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Archers routinely will shoot into the sides of classes with extraordinarily durable shields during teamfights in Skirmish, where this presents a risk of teamkilling, and are not useless to counter that form of heavy infantry. The idea that they're then useless against two handers because they now have a flimsy shield is an exaggeration.

Alfonso_M said:

-Low prices. (120 gold is cheap to this unit is capable to do on the battlefield)

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Also easily killed by throwing weapons, cav or archers since you have low survivability.

Alfonso_M said:

-Crushthrought. ( A broken feature, with more RNG than Skill to use)

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Totally agreed, if it's not 100% removed it should only apply to a maul or hammer and it should be slow. It's pretty anti-competitive.

Alfonso_M said:

-A ton variety of perks, some of them completely broken. (Thrown weapons like franceskas or pilas make them more lethals)

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If for example franceskas are broken for Voulgiers they're obviously more broken for Sergeants who have a much more protective shield to hide behind when throwing them.

Alfonso_M said:

Obviously some of these feature were implemented to balance the game (shields to counter archers when they were the meta) or by class design (To break shields or eliminate cavalry efficiently) but each of this classes has suffer a nerf that make them unable to counter two handers.

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I don't find myself unable to kill 2 handers when playing ranged or heavy inf with shield.

Alfonso_M said:

-Lower swing speed and handling for two hands weapons. With this change i hope to make these weapons heavier, less spammeable and to avoid abusing feints, keeping its damage. Aside, two handers sword would not need this change.

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"Abusing feints?" Most one handed weapons are faster so obviously they should be more able to abuse feints as soon as they close the distance which shouldn't be that hard to do since they have a shield which blocks all directions simultaneously without any special input from the user. Rhetorical question: are feints harder to deal with if you have a shield or if you don't?

The only two handers which are competitive in speed with one handers are the fastest (and weakest hitting) two handers; specifically these are the swords (including falx)--I guess the highland spiked mace is surprisingly fast at 92. The other two handers: bardiche, voulge, glaive, menavlion, maul, rhomphaia, are all significantly slower than one handed weapons and below 90 in speed.

If you want to make them significantly slower, what's going to happen is that they're all going to wind up being like menavlion, namely, almost unusable against players who are just swinging as fast as they can with one handers.

If someone is completely unable to hit back at people using handers against him when he has a one-handed sword and shield, he's not playing well enough to evaluate balance. I am not sure if you are experiencing that issue, but if you are, it's not a problem with the class.

Aprikosenmann said:

Reducing accuracy increases rng and reduces fun. This goes for throwing/archery and mounted archery. Damage/draw timer are better ways to balance if needed.

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Sure, for the horse archer himself, but that's an oversimplification. This is a case where "fun" is more of a zero-sum game than is true with respect to any other category of weapon/troop since it's ranged from horseback and the ability to fight back is largely non-existent for infantry and sometimes even other cav in a variety of situations. I would agree with Ebd that the Khuzait horse archer should be more expensive than 150, and their other units should be buffed. I did use it the other day post nerf--the change was very noticeable. While I still found it was effective enough to be annoying with, being slower requires much higher situational awareness of who may approach you if you're forced to slowly trot instead of galloping while shooting.

I also agree with the separate point that it makes sense to balance captain mode, other multiplayer modes, and singleplayer independently in terms of horse archer accuracy.

Maybe jav stabs shouldn't rear them that's a reasonably idea maybe; to hijack your thread, I also don't see why slashes from polearms into their face don't rear them. Also, if there was a damage threshhold that could make it really hard to rear a horse moving slowly, not necessarily opposed to it in principle but it seems like things which hit them hard in the face in general should make them rear if we're going to have that mechanic.

I'm not going to read the rest of the thread but I did a Ctrl+F for driver and nobody has mentioned display drivers or graphics drivers.

I walked a friend through updating their display drivers in a separate instance and that resolved the issue of OBS failing to capture from any source.

Decent enough guide from a skim:

My basic process would be:
Open dxdiag
Check display tab, verify what GPU is installed if you don't know
Go to manufacturer's page, either use autodetect or manually select which GPU is installed. The latter can sometimes be difficult but usually common sense that if your card begins with e.g. NVS that it's the NVS series for NVIDIA.

Updating display drivers is a pretty low risk operation and no you don't have to uninstall the existing ones first (normally), overwriting the old ones should happen automagically.

OP may have even already resolved this issue but if nobody has mentioned display drivers on a thread about OBS issues, worth a mention.

Mushbeast said:

I've played against Greedogre on TDM a few times, he's a good player and from what I remember I saw him using both shield infantry and two handed weapons.

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Your judgement on this is going to be based on your own skill relative to him and I don't know if you're a good player or not so this doesn't necessarily mean much--it might, I don't know, that's the point.

He claimed in the original post "2hand weapon already have reach advantage is it really need to give a speed advantage for it to dominate at all range." It is objectively false that 2 handers are faster than 1 handed weapons and that would be clear from a glance at the statistics of the voulge as compared to any single-handed sword in the game, the one handers are faster. There isn't a way you can abuse the physics of the game which are unique to two handers which would contradict the reality of what's listed on their weapon statistics. They aren't lightning fast, they're slower. The voulge doesn't even have a significant reach advantage, it just hits hard.

Mushbeast said:

I'm not sure what game or how long you've played to come to the conclusion that weapons like the menavilion are balanced. It's not that strong in a 1v1 situation, but because of the nature of the class itself, a person with a menavilion can stay out of your range and just pelt you with attacks until you slip up once, or the crush through inevitably gets you. There seems to be no point face-hugging either as the pole itself will pretty much one shot you.

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The only aspect of 2 handers that is unfair is the crush through, I've personally OPed a thread complaining about the issue so I can't do much more than agree with you here. Shields are arguably unfair in that it requires no skill to continually block an attack from any direction until the shield finally breaks. The crush through crutch, by the way, almost never works on the menavlion, you usually only get it with the long or heavy menavlion which are especially ****ty in 1v1 combat. They are annoying to deal with in a 2v1, but dealing with two people with shields can also be annoying, they might not have crush through but they have their own crutch.

Maybe they're not as big of an issue in Skirmish, but for any other mode where you can amass a pack of them, they become unbelievably OP, and are better anti-cav weapons than pikes or spears. Anyway, I like the two-handers in general being fast, but they should definitely speed the swing up of one-handed swords a lot too because they just feel slow and clunky to play with.

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Sounds like you're complaining that people wail with reckless abandon at each other with 2 handers in siege mode or whatever when you have two groups of 10 people in a narrow passageway? That behavior would change significantly if Taleworlds finally implemented a ****ing 1% reflexive damage on teamhits or anything at all to discourage people from swinging through each other, which is a really bad habit to get into if there's ever a game mode which doesn't permit that, which there is; but that would discourage the casual players who aren't playing multiplayer anyways so I guess let's not do that, right?

This is not a real problem.

Have you tried to force people to with one-handed weapons and shields to respect "your turn" in combat with a menavlion? When you're getting attacked by a 1 hander at close range, it feels way too slow if you've ever had to use it against a competent player at close range. But if someone with a menav is feinting against someone who doesn't know how to block at all, then it might seem like it's "too fast" or unbalanced. We are speaking, by the way, after the menav has already been nerfed hard--mentioning this if someone is reading in the distant future. Of course the menav is one of the slower 2 handers.

Are you personally successful when using a 2-handed weapon against someone with a sword and shield? My anecdotal experience is that the people who complain the most that 2 handers are easy mode are generally the ones who never use them because they can't block without a shield. You're overestimating how useful a reach advantage is when people with shields can easily get within and stay within reach and facehug you. If someone is consistently beating you with a 2 hander the odds are they would consistently beat you when using a sword and shield.

Players can sometimes use combination of footwork, feints, regular attacks, and predictions of when their opponent is going to feint to get a hit in when it's technically the other guy's turn to attack, one handed weapons are objectively faster so the only one of these where the 2 hander has an advantage is in distance and damage. Go play skirmish mode for a few rounds with a 2 hander, then a few rounds with a sword and shield, tell me which one you personally score higher with and then tell me your conclusion about which one is easier to play with.

Miscellaneous note but the alternative use and absence of hyphens with the compound adjectives here is intentional.

Greedalicious said:

Well no, the vast majority of the competitive community from warband isnt playing bannerlord, because we dont think its fun. The combat is a downgrade, theres less fun and we cant actually train. We've told taleworld what we want fixed, what we think the priority should be and we get ignored as much as the rest of you. We're not the favored sons here, we're all in the same sinking boat. The competitive scene in Warband currently is bigger than the one in Bannerlord.
The game doesnt cater to anyone right now. Everyone is missing crucial pieces.
If focus was on competitive, I'd be able to move my ****ing camera through a doorway by now.

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Imagine not playing in first person mode, hardly competitive

mylittletantan said:

They haven't. beta 1.5.0 crush through was brought to multiplayer, they have not changed it since.

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Lance downstabs were definitely crushing through during some point at some patch without being couched. That's what I was referring to being changed back.

mylittletantan said:

In singleplayer couch lances can crush through, stabs cannot.
In multiplayer couch lances and stabs cannot crush through, ever.

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I didn't realize they had changed it back, thanks for the correction.

Well played on Whalefish's part ?

In the unlikely event that all NA players were knocked out on the NA Duel server, and the final match was two European players, would they be allowed to play on the EU Duel server :^)? I'm actually in the US myself of course, but curious.

Name: Brahms
Contact: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198034607058/

Why was the password removed from the original post

Edit: Spoilered text is impossible to see if you have Dark Reader/Dark theme add-in

Regarding the claim of being undefeated, 4 VK members + 2 pubs vs. 5 BotH members + 1 pub and you guys lost 3 - 0 so sort of a meme to claim to be undefeated. Your 4th guy left after you were 2-0 for whatever that's worth (whether he quit/lost connection idk).

Admittedly I'm not the best player in Bannerlord and have gotten my ass kicked in a few skirms myself.