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  1. gesha17

    What does the community want?

    AnandaShanti said:
    Hey bud, I gave you big post yesterday and you've nothing to say about it? What's up with that? Just saving it for a rainy day? Or did it completely undermine every single things you've said about this forum and it's users? Were you hiding under you bed just waiting to poop a little 1 liner?
    Here you go, here's your attention:
    @gesha17 so the point of your topic is to post a simplistic poll, brag that 15k people play Bannerlord and to scold people for being negative on forums? I tried to answer you questions seriously but I keep reading this thread and having to go back to the OP to try and see what it's about and why the current discussion is happening.

    I think that you @gesha17 and many other's that make these thread overly simplify and combine many types of opinions and posting behavior as "toxic cry baby" whatever. You shouldn't throw everything together, it's all particular people and types of expression.

    1 real trolling and 1 liners, yeah they're common but they also funny sometimes and it's expression of a player dissatisfaction. It's okay. Some people are real Johnny on the spots with em too, great delivery, clean and simple. I mena a lot can't even be called trolling it's so clean. RIP @MostBlunted you are missed, let you one day return!

    2 Big disgruntled :poop: posts, yeah people just have to say they're dissatisfied. What is a forum for if people can't express how they feel about the subject? You open the thread you see a rogues gallery of dissatisfied players. Here's a tip if you go open:
    https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?forums/the-keep-singleplayer.656/
    https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?forums/singleplayer.676/
    https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?forums/mount-blade-ii-bannerlord.528/
    You'll hardily see these types of topics, you see real discussion of things in the game, problems in the game and what people really want in the game.

    3 Yes sometime people will really dig into the Devs that post here to make negative statements about the devs in general, I don't like this and these people usually get banned pretty fast. I think most adults understand that the individual Devs are not master and commander of what they put in the game, they're fallowing thier management and thier are many elements that effect each thing in the game they can't control. Most people appreciate the Devs that do post an answer questions.

    4 Big **** Player complaints about big **** player issues! Sometimes you have to go big and make noise about what's really important for the game! Sometimes absolutely awful things get updated in and it's paramount that they be corrected before it goes to the stable version! I play a lot of ****ign bannerlord, I cut the game open and crawl in it's belly like a starwars! When I have a serious problem I'm gonna meatspin it all around until I get a response! Most of those 15K player don't know **** about the mechanics to even know or complain when they have a problem! I do and I'm gonna roar like a big stinky lion when I want to! If an updates gonna **** in the jacuzzi I'm gonna stick my **** in the punch bowl and get attention about the problem!!
    https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...stion-or-bug-not-sure-so-it-goes-here.442955/
    Yeah it might seem a little rude, but's a serious problem and needs attention. The TW to do list is full with dozens of minor annoyances so something more needs more attention then just a bug report! Plus the initial response was that it's not a bug, just it works in funky un-useful way. Only after multiple demonstrations of the problems it cause was it okayed for a NO check box. In past discussions it was conveyed that TW doesn't want a bunch check boxes for this stuff, so getting one added is more trouble that you might guess.

    https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...y-hurry-and-give-us-full-control-soon.428077/
    Hate is no no word, but I hate not being able to place troops before each fight! Getting continued reassurance that this feature is still coming someday is really important! This will make the basic gameplay SO MUCH BETTER!

    https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...nenjoyable-and-unbalanced.438163/post-9644998
    Here's an oldy but goody, everyone dogpiles to complain about the leveling and the skills and lots of people realize they didn't even know the mechanics at all. Well, lots of the stuff people wanted has come fruition. The "level up =skill learning down" is removed in 1.5.10 and a Dev has said he's working on changing the slow skills to improve them and adding alt ways to get medicine and stuff.

    Now I made a big boy response for you! Now give me that video of you breaking a board or a cinder block!
    Feel free to re-state your point too if I got you wrong or whatever.
    There's no up vote down vote here, either defend your position or be the clown! ?
    Click to expand...
    I did not read your post, and I wont read this one and I don't have to. The first two lines are just an insult so no thanks.
  2. gesha17

    What does the community want?

    AnandaShanti said:
    What good is a voice if you have nothing to say?
    These types making these thread have no knowledge to share, no ideas to suggest and not patience to actually document and report bugs.
    AT best they're as bad as the worst :poop: posters and at best they're ambient noise.

    If you have something positive so say why can't you make a thread about something you enjoy in the game and way you like to play it that's satisfying to you? If all you do is try to shush people you're worse then a troll because at least a troll has humor.
    Click to expand...
    You are not the one to decide who post positive stuff on this thread and negative stuff on whatever thread. Don't shush other community members.
  3. gesha17

    What does the community want?

    mrBmbastic said:
    Before this thread gets locked for being too flamy. I want to say that Bannerlord enjoyers (90% steam positive reviews) should also have voice in this forum. Every player is a part of the community, not just the blackpilled forum rats.
    Seems like a lot of people are afraid to post, because they will be accused of being too Hope™.
    Dont forget that there is also a silent majority who is too busy having fun in order to post **** on the forums.
    Click to expand...
    Yes, this is the type of bullying I referred to earlier. Most people actually enjoy the game and are too afraid to post here.
    My questions is why is this being allowed by the moderators?
  4. gesha17

    What does the community want?

    Sundeki said:
    But you will, assuming my understanding of "blackpilled" is correct. The so-called "dismiss[ing]" of newer accounts isn't something bred of arrogance or self importance. In the last 2 years I have seen literally hundreds of people create accounts, not know what they are talking about, defending TaleWorlds from a point of ignorance; and then 95%+ of them that stay end up frustrated and upset with TaleWorlds themselves. It's unironically a forum meme at this point. They're not being targeted because they're new, they're being told they don't understand the practices and culture of TaleWorlds(as a whole), and when you're around this forum for long enough you see the same kind of person posting the exact same kind of posts hundreds if not thousands of times. And then so many of them have the gall to call other people who aren't ignorant of the situation and the problem "toxic", or "crybabies" or "immature", or to be "patient".

    Nobody is attacking anyone for being "new". New accounts are being called out for being ignorant and posting about things they don't understand, and the reason they are ignorant is because they haven't been around here long enough. It's an indirect call for them to understand the situation before making a judgement on it, and especially calling those people who do understand "crybabies" and such. And when they do understand the situation after being here long enough, they either leave because it disgusts them, or stay and complain along with the rest of us. What you may not understand is that everyone here being """toxic""" is a Mount&Blade superfan, and 5 years ago were diehard loyalists of the franchise. If newer accounts/players took even a small amount of time to understand this history and dynamic instead of hurling insults and running defense of a company whose practices and actions thus far are garbage; they wouldn't be on the receiving end of rightful criticism. And then when they can't handle it, as seen in this thread and dozens of others, turn to insults and strawmanning.

    And I'm using the word "ignorant" in this post not as a perjorative, but the literal definition of the word(a position of not-knowing), so nobody should take that as an insult.
    Click to expand...
    Phantom425 said:
    Yeah, that's fair. If someone comes into the forums who are ignorant to the situation then yes, they are ignorant. However, I came in and spoke from what I saw as people misunderstand what TW has told them, in the modding thread, and from there I had been called a white knight and been told to be quiet. Newer accounts are told that they are ignorant when they take the side of TW in any extent, even what I have made it clear that I am not entirely happy with the current state of the game. While, I do greatly enjoy it, there are things that I would want added. I only try to call people toxic when they are. You aren't, and I respect that. OP was actually the one who was toxic to you. The whole dynamic clearly is not black and white.

    I do completely understand the frustration, I do. That's why I do not try to levy insults back at people when they are levied towards me. If I have, I apologize, that is my fault.

    Also, no worries about the term ignorant, it was clearly being used to describe people who are ignorant to issues.
    Click to expand...
    Indeed, some of my posts yesterday were a little too "spiced up". It's one of my flaws, I know I get fired up too quickly.

    But still, there's quite a lot of bullying going on here, and it's not just "Helping new people understand the situation." This is WAY past that. It sound like it's an excuse you are hiding behind to lash out. Just like saying "Oh it's TW that makes us frustrated so we can lash out at them."
    This behaviour should not be acceptable, and in my case also, and I did get my warning as deserved.
    I mean see what's happened here and look at this post that I shared earlier as well. https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/thank-you-taleworlds-a-unique-perspective.443381/
    You are saying "oh they are just ignorant." Okay well, first that's not an excuse to be rude to them and second I only see like 10-15 people that are "left hanging with you." spreading the whole "TW is hopeless narrative". It's not hundreds of new accounts.
  5. gesha17

    What does the community want?

    MadVader said:
    It's a trivial process of replacing one word with another in multiple files. It is not very "nice" in terms of style, but it does exactly what the modders want at no cost to Taleworlds.
    Click to expand...
    Phantom425 said:
    Yes, it is trivial. It would also be time consuming. While I do hope that these all do get set to public at some point in the future, which I do think they will, I think there are more important things to focus on at the current moment. Siege AI is still broken, so that needs more attention at the moment. Hopefully, what happens in the 1.6.0 update is a step forwards rather then backwards, but they have opened up the chance to have further communication following the update.
    Click to expand...
    Internal keywords are used when you want to limit accessibility of certain variables. The important reason being here is that it if you remove them it is probably going to break a part of the code, so you have to make sure that that doesn't happen. One could argue that this is just bad design on TW side, and they should have thought about that earlier, but in the end it is probably put there for a reason, whether technical or purposefully delaying certain features. While these variables CAN be changed, it is not "simply".
  6. gesha17

    What does the community want?

    UK-Tranquillity said:
    With all due respect. Who the F made you the moral high horse of virtue.

    The way you type with capital letters like that makes you seem like a pretty obnoxious person tbh.
    Like you are talking down on everyone else.

    That's the worst thing about this whole thread tbh.

    And based on the way you type I'm starting to think "Phantom425" is your side account. Has all of the same post structure, capital letter and quote mark crap as you. If I am right in suspecting that, that is really sad.
    Using two accounts to make it sound like you have a leg to stand on.

    Tbh the whole way you have behaved in this post makes it seem like you created the thread because you enjoy a good argument.

    I could be wrong. But that is just my impression.
    Click to expand...
    Well now that is just flaming, accusations, and insults. This is the exact type of behaviour I am talking about.
    You are saying I am acting like a high horse of virtue, and you are acting like someone that really likes to analyse people. You have no idea how wrong you are.
    And calling Phanton425 a side account is also an insult to him. You are being just disrespectful. Ask a moderator to check if this is true, and you should apologise.
  7. gesha17

    What does the community want?

    eddiemccandless said:
    You are operating under the assumption that TW actually makes an effort to understand what the player base wants, when every thing so far indicates that they do not. As others have said this are random numbers that show wishful thinking on your part, not facts.

    OP got called a liar because what OP was saying is simply verifiably false. From where I am standing, he is the one raging because of being told that he is wrong (and @MadVader even went on to explain in detail why he was wrong). The way OP reacted to one of @Sundeki's post was definitely toxic and completely uncalled for, so much so that a moderator had to intervene. There are people who act like you say, but that is not what is happening here (well, one person did that, and they got muted for it).

    By the way, @MadVader was a prominent coder in one of the most successful mods ever made for Warband (actually, more than one). I say this not to put him on a pedestal, but because it means that he has interacted with the WB community and he actually has a decent understanding of what the community wants. He was part of a team that delivered an incredibly successful product in this community (for free, mind you). So maybe think about the fact that the "old school" community has many such people in it, and you will see why it is kind of silly to see someone new to this same community trying to school veterans on what the people really want.
    Click to expand...
    Which mod was he a coder for? I find it suspicios that he said "TW should simply remove the internal keyword". A coder would know that it's not "simply".

    Furthermore, I've been a member of this community, I would bet longer than almost anyone here. I've contributed A LOT to the PW community. I was head admin along with one of my good friends from back then, for the biggest Server(EU_Union for those who remember) back then. That was right before the banking scripts were released and it was the end of our server. I also created a map, again along with one of my good friends back then, which was enjoyed by hundreds ofplayers. But that was a different time, and the forums MOST CERTAINLY felt like a completely different thing. So if anyone should be considered a veteran, that's me. But I don't go around the forum bragging about it do I?

    Please show some respect for new players. You are not as cool or "old school" as you might think. A little bit of humility would go a long way here.
    This is not YOUR forum, this is the COMMUNITY'S forum.

    This reminds me of the 4chan psychos calling other ppl "Normies".
  8. gesha17

    What does the community want?

    Terco_Viejo said:
    We could discuss this for pages and pages, but the OP is not looking at the obvious current problem in perspective. In short, imho:

    The community, apart from a quality product, fun and with longevity projection through a lax modding system, wants:
    • New ideas and perspectives
    • Collaborate
    • See confidence reflected
    • Be really listened to
    • Avoid potential pitfalls
    • Clear and concise explanations
    • Pleasant and reliable treatment


    What the community needs is something only Taleworlds has to find out. Basically this:

    rUg19.png
    Click to expand...
    I see your point, and it is true that Taleworlds is failing to see these things(I agree with every one of the points you make and I think they are crucial). However, there is a problem on the community side as well, and that it seems to be fuelled by an overall feel of "We are allowed to say whatever because we have waited too long"
    Bjorn The Hound said:
    Steam db most played games, web archieve, Warband rank throughout the years. There is no data before 2015 so we are looking the rank of Warband at least 5 years later its release. Three samples are selected for each year.
    https://web.archive.org/web/20150316211055/https://steamdb.info/graph/ 2015/03/16 rank 32

    https://web.archive.org/web/20150629022519/https://steamdb.info/graph/ 2015/06/29 rank 32

    https://web.archive.org/web/20150905214130/https://steamdb.info/graph/ 2015/09/05 rank 24

    https://web.archive.org/web/20160314010104/https://steamdb.info/graph/ 2016/03/14 rank 32

    https://web.archive.org/web/20160405045142/https://steamdb.info/graph/ 2016/04/05 rank 43

    https://web.archive.org/web/20160613102911/https://steamdb.info/graph/ 2016/06/13 rank 47

    https://web.archive.org/web/20170302134454/https://steamdb.info/graph/ 2017/03/02 rank 56

    https://web.archive.org/web/20170622113045/https://steamdb.info/graph/ 2017/06/22 rank 48

    https://web.archive.org/web/20171012193818/https://steamdb.info/graph/ 2017/10/12 rank 58

    https://web.archive.org/web/20180228214915/https://steamdb.info/graph/ 2018/02/28 rank 62

    https://web.archive.org/web/20180616200939/https://steamdb.info/graph/ 2018/06/16 rank 62

    https://web.archive.org/web/20181128192959/https://steamdb.info/graph/ 2018/11/28 rank 54

    https://web.archive.org/web/20190217231641/https://steamdb.info/graph/ 2019/02/17 rank 61

    https://web.archive.org/web/20190628190024/https://steamdb.info/graph/ 2019/06/28 rank 59

    https://web.archive.org/web/20191018233811/https://steamdb.info/graph/ 2019/10/18 rank 53

    Now let's see Bannerlord.
    https://web.archive.org/web/20200501225926/https://steamdb.info/graph/ 2020/05/01 rank 14

    https://web.archive.org/web/20200630021153/https://steamdb.info/graph/ 2020/06/30 rank 54

    https://web.archive.org/web/20200822135543/https://steamdb.info/graph/ 2020/08/22 rank 54

    https://web.archive.org/web/20200903001714/https://steamdb.info/graph/ 2020/09/03 rank 54

    https://web.archive.org/web/20201002034042/https://steamdb.info/graph/ 2020/10/02 rank 59

    currently its rank is 64

    I was planing to get more data on Bannerlord but for some reason steam db charts and its table stopped loading even if I enabled java script in my browser.

    There is no EA excuse here after 8 years, I think. Warband mods made it clear what community wanted. As I said again and again, if TW just made improved version of Warband Diplomacy Mod, their avarage rank would be at least 30. Same goes for Multiplayer, like Orion or like Rhade stated in his well reasoned post at March 19 2018:
    See, people are warning TW for 2 years straight about what is going to happen and appearantly they are talking to a wall. Make no mistake, I don't like see toxic posts but you came out of nowhere then claiming there was no constructive criticism in the community then also claiming that people here are just toxic for the sake of being toxic. This behaviour of yours is also kind of toxic @gesha17
    Click to expand...
    Man, I posted links to steam charts in the OP, did you not read it?

    I did not say there was NO constructive criticism, but that there is an air of "We are allowed to say whatever because we waited too long.". These are two different things. I also asked for only constructive criticism, and I must say, yesterday I did let myself a little loose with the comments, I must admit that.

    Anyway..
    What do you mean by "People are warning TW for 2 years?" What are they gonna do if TW doesn't comply? Rage on the forums? Well that seems to be only pushing new people away from the forums.

    And yes, people are just being toxic for the sake of being toxic! Look at this post and the responses. What do you call that?

    And it's the same people that post here, for some reason, the "forum veterans".
    The real question is why this kind of behaviour is allowed by the moderators.
  9. gesha17

    What does the community want?

    ShakenSpeare said:
    This just seems pointless to me. There is a general consensus among the "communities" about what they think Bannerlord should be, even if it's not focusing wholly on individual niche things. The MP people want a better MP, the SP people want a better SP, the Modding people want better modding... actually, EVERYONE wants better modding. In fact, where exactly will you find people who say "I think the SP is useless and I don't care that it sucks, I play MP" or "I think the MP is useless and don't care if it sucks, I play SP"? I think everyone wants all these departments improved and focused on, even if it isn't important to them specifically. All of them are important. Nobody is deluding themselves into wanting something nobody else wants but thinking that everyone else wants it. This is a non-issue. Oh, and the people who somehow think the game is great as it is and doesn't need improvement in all areas, are irrelevant to the picture.
    Click to expand...
    Well, that is just your point of view. Look at the poll on the top 50% of people say they play only SP and don't care about the MP.
    I don't think the "general consensus" is as general as you see it. If anyone is too optimistic, that is you here. Thinking that SP only players really care about the MP aspect is what is overly optimistic. Maybe it's an issue that you are failing to see, and by failing to see that, you fail to understand half of the community. That's a BIG miss.

    Furthermore I don't think there is anyone here that thinks the game doesn't need improvement. This thread is about game improvement.

    Again, we go back to people bashing posters that say ANYTHING positive about the game. Look, whether you like it or not, there ARE players that enjoy the game in it's current state. Yes, they know that there are issues and, yes they want to see it improve, but they CAN say something that is not on the "TW is useless" side of the spectrum.
    What this guy said, I really hope you read it and take it to heart:
    Phantom425 said:
    The forum veterans, in my admittedly short time here, are the ones who tend to start to rage. OP got called a liar and deluded for being overally positive about a game, so I think that would spawn rage. Everytime I’ve seen these arguments about people being a **** to people who “white-knight” for TW always use the excuse as of having waited for a long time therefor letting them act however they want to TW devs and the people who make points in favor of them.

    You did start out answering his question peacefully, and your perspective is not not valid, however you can’t claim the title of being the mature one in this thread just because you don’t like something.
    Click to expand...
  10. gesha17

    What does the community want?

    Phantom425 said:
    The forum veterans, in my admittedly short time here, are the ones who tend to start to rage. OP got called a liar and deluded for being overally positive about a game, so I think that would spawn rage. Everytime I’ve seen these arguments about people being a **** to people who “white-knight” for TW always use the excuse as of having waited for a long time therefor letting them act however they want to TW devs and the people who make points in favor of them.

    You did start out answering his question peacefully, and your perspective is not not valid, however you can’t claim the title of being the mature one in this thread just because you don’t like something.
    Click to expand...
    People that haven't been sucked into the whole "I'm allowed to rage because I waited too long" seem to actually be able to engage in a conversations. The rest just say the same thing over and over again.

    Maelstrom8 said:
    Not only are you too optimistic (nothing exactly wrong with that), but you don't know what you're talking about. Like, you don't actually know what you're saying. You're just throwing random percentages around and are unsure. I suggest you pull back if you have nothing solid to work off.
    Click to expand...
    Like this thing here. What the hell is anyone supposed to do with such a response in a thread that is supposed to encourage mutual understanding? If you want to engage in a productive conversation I suggest that YOU pull back from high handed comments like this and explain your point of view. You know maybe it's not that I don't know what I am talking about, but that you haven't attempted to understand me. OR you understood, you disagree but are too lazy to explain it so you just say "oh you don't know what you are talking about." That's quite an arrogant way to approach fellow community members and is bound to create only disputes and not positive conversations.
    (By positive conversations I mean such that lead to positive results, not just "blindly praising TW")
  11. gesha17

    What does the community want?

    Calabanar said:
    There definitely is a multiplayer community on these forums, but they spend more time on the dedicated section. From what I've heard, if you think people here are angry, you will have a hard time going through their threads :party:

    Can't talk much about multi though, tried it at release, played a bit of commander but that's it.
    Click to expand...
    Oh I am absolutely sure there is, but we don't really know how big, and more important how it is compared to the exclusively SP community. Or the modding community, the persistent world community, the cRPG community and etc. If we had a better idea of that maybe we could better understand why TW is doing some of the stuff they are doing, and why they are just ignoring some suggestions(spoiler: There could be a good reason). If we had actual data, we could tailor our suggestions to it, so they are considered more seriously rather than just "TW should focus more on whatever."

    So yeah, I know the poll obviously doesn't represent the truth, but a gross estimation of it. What I hope is that it gets some people(say hardcore modded MP only players) start asking themselves(it certainly did me) if their point of view is really what most people want, or it's just the side of the community they have been most exposed to. This would allow for better communication with both TW and between community members.
  12. gesha17

    What does the community want?

    Bjorn The Hound said:
    So?
    Click to expand...
    Well, when adding suggestions it is important that they are aligned not just with our personal needs but with the community's needs. If TW see a suggestion that is not aligned with the playerbases needs then they are more likely to ignore it.
    Say, people pushing for all the development to be focused on MP, would be ignored just because TW's stats show 50%(or maybe 70% we don't know really) of people aren't really interested in that. Or mods even, we know that hardcore WB players can't wait for the mods, but how many of the current bannerlord players are even interested? We don't know that, it could be 10% or it could be 50%, we shouldn't underestimate how wrong we could be. If it looks different from their perspective we have to take that into account.
  13. gesha17

    What does the community want?

    mrBmbastic said:
    Battle gamemode would be great indeed. Thats what I played the most in Warband Native MP. The arena map with ~20 players.

    As for premade classes thing, I dont mind the change that much than the rest of forum posters I guess. And also I doubt TW is going to make it an option for player-run servers. My personal prediction - its gonna become a modded server thing if that many people want it.
    The more customizable MP servers are, the more popular. For example, adding friendly fire to siege MP changes so much.

    Lastly, can we please refrain from filling this thread with garbage TW good or TW bad debatelord ****. It literally doesnt matter. If you see some debater post irrelevant ****, just ignore them.
    Click to expand...
    Premade classes are even better in my opinion. Indeed at first it felt like the old system is a "missing thing" from warband, but now people don't even notice it.
    If it was a mod I don't think that many people would care enough to get into it.
    Multiplayer is ALMOST, "cough cough" cav menavlion, balanced, it would be like why fix what's not broken. Maybe some people would miss it just due to nostalgia, but when the server's get populated again and the mods and dedicated servers are released, most of that will be gone anyway.
  14. gesha17

    What does the community want?

    I find it interesting that 50% of the players aren't interested in the online aspect. I thought it would be somewhere around 20-30% max.
    Maybe it's even more, I'd imagine most SP only players don't really visit the forums as much as MP players. May be wrong though. TW probably knows that.
  15. gesha17

    What does the community want?

    eddiemccandless said:
    @gesha17 I am not saying that this is a great situation. I am also not engaging in dev bashing myself (I honestly do not envy their position, they are not responsible for the situation and I doubt that the people who are in charge even read the forum).

    I am not either and I am sorry that some people have been. I don't agree with that. But what I think is that constructive feedback has been tried, and it didn't work. Outrage might very well not work, but it's the only thing left. I can definitely tell you that I am extremely unlikely to buy a TW game ever again if this is the product they release.
    Click to expand...
    Okay well thats probably the most well written thing i've read today. Thanks!
    I do not agree but this is the exactly what I am talking about!
  16. gesha17

    What does the community want?

    Sundeki said:
    It does make it necessary if the alternatives don't work, which has been proven.


    I have 60~ steam friends from the Mount&Blade community, all hardcore MnB players, and only 2 of them have launched Bannerlord at any point in the last few months. Everywhere I go(major discords, community pages, this forum, etc.) has a specific consensus that this game, particularly multiplayer, is garbage.

    It is as much of a norm as I think, especially as it relates to multiplayer.


    We get 2-3 new accounts a week brown nosing TaleWorlds and telling the rest of us to "stop crying/whinging/whining", so I have no ****ing idea what you're talking about here.


    I have no power over decisions or outcomes, TaleWorlds does. Arguments over environment are directly related to concepts of agency. TaleWorlds decision makers and management have agency, I do not. My inability to affect sorely needed change in relation to Bannerlord, and the utter unwillingness of TaleWorlds to engage not even necessarily with me but anyone in the community, makes me and my posts at this time in this forum a product of the environment that TaleWorlds has created.

    If TaleWorlds was actively trying to make changes, but productivity problems at the moment prevented them from doing so, they could say so and 85% of the forum would understand, as would I. But they are not only unproductive but refuse input and recommendations from the community, and completely and utterly ignore the multiplayer community.

    You're trying to paint a picture that doesn't fit the reality, because you're genuinely unaware just how ****ed everything is.
    Click to expand...
    First of all I am not an ass licker <snip>

    Second, I have to say that this is the saddest and, at the same time, most pathetic response this thread has gotten. I mean cmon you could not be more spineless than that. "I have no power, I have no choice, everything is ****ed, blablabla". If I was even coming close to being so desperate I would have stopped hanging out here long ago. Maybe you should do like your steam friends and move on.

    That's the only sane part of your responce:

    If TaleWorlds was actively trying to make changes, but productivity problems at the moment prevented them from doing so, they could say so and 85% of the forum would understand, as would I.

    The rest is just *****ing. Read it again once the game is fully released and you are over the "poor me no choice frustrated chump" thing.

    If I was taleworlds I would not even think about improving a game for community of players like you.

    WhiteEyedSh4rk said:
    I would play Bannerlord multiplayer if there would finally come a bigger update for it
    Click to expand...
    Fully agree. What would you like to see in that bigger update? Any specifics?
  17. gesha17

    What does the community want?

    Sundeki said:
    During the beta, my average post to TaleWorlds was 4+ paragraphs and thousands of words, constructively reasoned, and non-hostile. I got into arguments with this one guy over issues, but none of that was directed at TaleWorlds. When you see the decline in post content, and the increase in anger and frustration, and it's near-universal for forum users that hang around; it doesn't matter what TaleWorlds thinks of me personally. I've been on the same side as the forum consensus on every issue except 1 relating to Bannerlord development since the beta, and my descent into frustration is the norm, not the exception.

    All of this is indicative of a systemic problem, not a problem with me specifically. If I was the only one who saw a decline in post quality/content, then much of what you just said is true, but I am not.

    TaleWorlds should do what 'someone like me' says for the simple reason that I am not alone in either my descent into madness, nor my positions on the stagnant swamp that is both this game and the gene pool of TaleWorlds management. I, and this forum, is nothing but a product of our times and our environment. Something you will see clearly enough in time.
    Click to expand...
    Just because your descent into frustration is the norm and not the exception does not make it right!!
    And perhaps it is not so much of a norm as you think. Most people don't hang out at the forum. I mean if someone would make a post about how much he liked the game he would be stoned to death!! What kind of people do you think the forum attracts then?

    Furthermore assuming this stance of "oh im just a product of the environment" is the exact opposite of what you want Taleworlds to do.
    Would you be happy if they came out and said, "Oh it's just the times are bad, it's not us, we really tried but yeah sorry guys, it's really the environment's fault that we are acting like assholes.". Of course you would not like it! How do you think it looks from their side then?
  18. gesha17

    What does the community want?

    UK-Tranquillity said:
    Oh my sweet summer child... You are all of us from 6 months+ ago.


    Sorry to burst your bubble but this forum is not just for americans.
    Click to expand...
    I am not american, I live in the netherlands.
    Thanks for the constructive feedback though!

    Sundeki said:
    Sure.

    The only thing that we know without a doubt is that being "calm and constructive" doesn't work, so anything that is an alternative is reasonable at this point.
    Click to expand...
    Saying something like that Is a direct indicator to taleworlds: "I do not know how to handle the situation, will do anything even if bad, unethical or immoral to get what I want done."
    Would you do what someone like that says? I mean he is on a forum on the internet, not with a gun in front of you.
  19. gesha17

    What does the community want?

    eddiemccandless said:
    Are you not aware of the fact that there was a beta before Early Access started? That would explain your view tbh.

    TW has shown time and again that they do not take action based on constructive feedback. And honestly, it's funny that I am telling you this because I had the same kind of conversation with others right after release ? they were already disillusioned based on that experience, while I was not very familiar with what happened and still hopeful (basically where you are now).

    The one, thin hope that we have is that enough people get angry enough at them and yell loudly enough that they will get their **** together and finally begin trying to fix the damn game. Everything else has been tried, over and over and over, and it has failed because they just ignore it or brush it off.
    Click to expand...
    Of course I am aware that there was a beta. I've been waiting for bannerlord to be released since it was announced, and am part of the blue balled family due to how long it took. I'm not here from yesterday.

    Do you really think everyone getting pissed off would be an effective strategy to get their attention? I get the thinking behind this, but it doesn't seem to be effective to me. This seems to be most of the forums at the moment, and how is it working out? And what if it goes even worse than that? What are we gonna do? Storm their HQ like the capitol?
    And how does that make them want to listen to us in any way if they have 15k, and even up to 20k(on steam), people a day playing their game, most of which do not complain about it(Remember happy people are less likely to leave a review than pissed off people)?

    I am not even trying to be hostile at the moment, I really want to know what you think. Hey, if this truly is a more effective strategy and gets us more results, then let's get it. But is it really? This discussion IS important. The forums is what we have, and using them wisely will get us at least SOME results.
  20. gesha17

    What does the community want?

    eddiemccandless said:
    TW was exhibiting the same kind of behavior when the community was providing constructive feedback (beginning of the MP beta). Things did not turn into a mess because people are angry, it's the other way around. There really isn't a way out if it at this point.
    Click to expand...
    Well, I do not remember the community exhibiting much "constructive feedback". When the game launched it received so much bashing and hate I was appalled. Not that It was not deserved, but the hostility of it, it was too much. Getting on the "Cancel TW" train is too easy in my opinion.
    eddiemccandless said:
    TW surely can do better. They just don't want to. There's not a single thing we can do about that.
    Click to expand...
    You could very well be right. But where does that leave us? How do we move forward from here?
    We can't? We are too tired to try? They won't listen? They don't want to listen?
    In my opinion just expressing our frustrations about this on the forums doesn't lead us any closer to Victory.
    Maybe I am blind to reality, but I still think we can still have some mature conversations with them, and if we make this forum a more inviting place maybe they will talk with us. Doesn't mean we have to "blindly praise them", but just leave the bashing at the door.
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