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Rename this WESTWORLD MOD and post a link on Reddit.  I miss this multiplayer mod so much.

I have a new theory:

This game is meant to be played and enjoyed by the solitary, the sandboxer, and the systematic builder.  Conflict will still matter, but it's more for the guy who wants to create his working homestead, perhaps with a few friends on TS.  A small community develops...

vietanh797 said:

NukularPower said:

Yet Athens did win wars against Sparta (at least, until it was weakened and finally destroyed)

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since when hiding behind the wall is winning?

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Yeah, and also the the negotiated treaties that lent intermissions to the Peloponnesian War could hardly be called "victories" by either side. 

In light of this, does the game give any advantages to Athenians in sea battles, other than just having Marines?

I'd say give a high Battle Advantage bonus to the Athenians fighting ship-to-ship, which would represent their superior tactics and control on the water. 

We have to find a balance between the people who don't want senseless violence, and the people who don't want to spend most of their game furiously typing.

So the thing that makes this game not really work, is that griefers can respawn over and over, very quickly, and run right back at you with guns.  And so "defending your fort from attack" turns into "repeatedly killing a/many dude/s with your sharps as if it were a respawning Bot." 

My suggestions on this one:  have only ONE spawn point, and have it be in a little ravine in the far corner of the map.  That way, the people who want to spawn kill or constantly fight are stuck away from everyone else locked in their endless cycle of "spawn and shoot at the nearest thing shooting".  Those who want to do other things can run, make it out alive (it may take a few tries with a populated server lol) and go out into the world and not be molested by people spawning 50 yards away.  It will make your life out in the world more meaningful because of a longer run back after spawning.  Yes, you will make that run after being "randomed", but the "randomer" will also have to make that run if you successfully defend yourself.  Also, marshalls could block the pass and interrogate/kill incoming known killers before they even made it to civilized lands.

The admins on the servers, the player-base in general, have to be the biggest one.

With Freelancer it is hands down the best singleplayer BETA I have ever seen.  This blows alphas out of the water.

No, it wasn't desertion.  I went on leave, then while I was on leave but before 14 days was up Agis attacked Argos.  I guess he could be displeased that I asked for leave a few days before a battle, but then why would they allow me to cross the siege lines and enter Argos? 

Slight problem when you've gone on leave and the army you've joined starts a siege battle: you cannot join them until they are done!  My test game was as Peloponnese, and my commander's army (King Agis) assaulted Argos and I arrived and clicked on Argos only to get the option to go through the siege line to enter Argos. No option to join back with my commander and fight.

I'd really like to try Officer Mode.  Sounds really interesting.

Still can't stab with any of the Hoplite-like swords when using a shield.  Can anybody else?

I did find a clue, though.  The Nervous Man quest guy drops a plain "sword" and that CAN stab with the Apsis or Scutum, but he raises his hand like the sword was a spear.  Maybe it has something to do with that.

Otherwise fantastic Alpha release. This mod is almost solidly polished.

A way to spawn as last character build with a single button would be nice.

Have you fixed the inventory system yet?  In .12 I am frequently encountering all sorts of difficulty placing items into my inventory from my equipped items.  Also, am I just missing something, or is there not a way to select how many of an item you want to pick up to your cursor in the inventory?  Right now it is either Click and get one, then Click and put it back, or Shift-click and get all of them.  So if I had a stack of 25 cobble, and some guy needed 15 from me, how do I drop it to him?

When bounties are finally implemented, it would be cool it you could pay down your own bounty.  Perhaps you could code this to be functionally pressing "use" on a Lawman character, and it wipes your bounty clean and transfers that amount to the Lawman's pockets.  This could be used both as a way to RP bribery AND to allow small time criminals or people who made "mistakes" pay a Fine and escape the death sentence. 

Another nice thing would be a Hitching Post prop that you could somehow affix your horse to.  Since this requires a lot more work, I'd say it shouldn't be a priority.  BUT I think there is a simple way to have a quick fix for the homesteader who keeps having his horse run away.  You know how when you hit an animal it triggers it to run away.  Could you tweak the code so that with horses, when you punch them they do not move until hit again?  That way you dismount, punch the horse for minimal damage and it will stay while you work on your hut or mine or whatever. 

And another vote for prefab buildings.  I think if you asked the 1866 crew nicely they'd let you use some of their Old West buildings, which look very nice.  I'm not sure how to prevent spam, but I think that it would be great to allow people to throw up quick towns, and then whomever wants to go make customer buildings can also do that.

sirwho said:

Food for thought though, if you restrict firearms/ammo on starting classes then a group of people can create a base and start building guns/ammo and become nigh unkillable randomers. On the other hand I suppose theres not much chance they know how to build anything in the first place though.

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The real question is:  Are those people "unkillable randomers" who need to be brought to justice by an admin, or are they the gang of a LOCAL DESPOT who happens to be very cruel?  If they "talk" enough, do they become RPers?    What about bushwhacking?  Does that just disappear because all you people who can't/won't do anything to actually defend yourselves just want to whine and get your own way in a virtual world? 

The Real World is a violent, terrible place when you step out of the police state of Western Civilization.  It sucks, frankly, but I don't see the reason to go to a virtual world, where you can "die" over and over with no pain, and complain that people are not just standing around chatting and building ****.  If that is what you want...GET A JOB IN CONSTRUCTION.  I've worked in it, and it is kinda fun in an Office Space way. There are plenty of places in America and Europe to interact with people with words words words, and VERY FEW where you get to organize and play out the tactics of small group combat. 

I was really excited when Shredz announced this mod as a free form world sandbox where anything goes and the players are responsible for whatever Order exists.  Months afterward he added "roleplaying" in the title of the thread and it has become obvious that the community will ruin that lofty dream of a true sandbox experience.    Not that it is my place to command server owners not to choose their own rules.

BUT it just seems to me like the people who call for Roleplaying the loudest just want to play M&B: FARMVILLE.  When you declare "talkless violence" to be anti roleplay, you really just remove a certain type of roleplayer along with the true "randomer" who is essentially like a spawn TKer in any FPS game.   

If I don't believe my bandit gang needs to talk to somebody with anything but bullets, that's my/our choice.  Appoint a Sheriff or make a Posse and come after us!  When you make too many rules, you just end up with a game FULL of whining.  Look at the people here who say

chimera_t said:

It was extremely boring and frustrating when i tried to play yesterday. I tried roleplaying but it was impossible because no local chat. I tried roleplaying again, and it was impossible because people were killing each other. I tried roleplaying AGAIN, and I just ******** gave up. THIS MOD NEEDS LOCAL CHAT AND STARTER BUILDINGS

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Translation:  WEEHHHH I logged on to the first night of the alpha release of an unpaid mod and I couldn't do exactly what I wanted in the way I wanted to weeehhhh.


What makes me excited about online sandbox gaming is that it ALLOWS people to come together and organically recreate real life situations in a virtual world.  Admin intervention DISALLOWS organic recreation.    I would be REALLY REALLY happy to see a random group of players elect their best fighter as Sheriff and organize town defense militias to protect themselves from evil killers.  I would be a part of those players trying to build something, and it would be exciting to face real, random, coordinated assaults from enemies.  Not "HEY GUYS WE ARE COMING (x3)." 

I do not make this argument so that I can get on a random name and go around killing and giggling, I make it to influence a popular server to go easy on the rulemaking for awhile and see if we can make suggestions to Shredz to make the game a better fit for organic gaming.

After too many times where I see two people argue in all-chat about who was right to attack who, and then call for an admin and use the word "randomer" like little children playing gunfighter on their front lawn, I will get disgusted quit.

That right there is what I fear most about this mod.  Shredz can make an awesome product, but it is up to the Rules Happy servers to talk about "true players" and ban people who don't want to play by constrictive roleplay rules.    "True players" prefer endless rules lawyering in chat to combat. 

Suggestion: 

A train, which is moveable forwards and backwards on a sweet rail track that circumnavigates the map, passing by the Town, Mines, Mail Depot, and Bandit Hideout (kinda by the mine, over a bridge, up in a box canyon...).  In addition to providing transport for the miners, the train could have a "Payroll" chest on it that refreshes full of a modest amount of money after the train passes both the town and a mail depot/watering station out in the sticks.  This could be protected/harvested by a group of Army guards, and then "robbed" by bandits and Apaches.  Intense firefights abound!

I think that the RPers should go find their own server to do their Cloud-watching on.  RCC is the most popular server, and should cater to the majority audience, which I believe wants to play PW A5 as intended!  It is a more structured fighting based competitive mod now...GET OVER IT.  It is no longer a cute velvet-selling sandbox game, it is a MORE TRUE medieval roleplay.  If you want justice against murderers, you must join a strong faction and organize a posse.  Not WHINE.

I dunno, I am just of the opinion that the hardcore roleplayers are usually the hardcore whiners, or the people who used to complain in 3.5b about TW trying to keep bow wielding bandit looking people off the roofs.  Just idiots who want to play their way, everyone else be damned.  Well guess what?  The mod is made a certain way, with certain rules, and actually I think all people can work within those rules without much server intervention needed.  I think there is a huge difference between the guy running around couch lancing random commoners (should be banned) and an aggressive faction that doesn't play along with your weak ****.

Again, the Medieval Period was not about Roleplay, it was about the acquisition of territory and power by Combat.  Read some history, folks.  Brutal roleplay is more real than fanciful bull****.

Some people seem to want to transfer modern concepts into the game, like a having peace by default (what's the point of that in a fighting game?), with everyone getting an equal chance to be whatever they want, without having to "play the game" for it: that is not how it worked in medieval times, if you wanted to be the best, you really had to compete for it. However, scene makers can make the commoners a powerful faction if they want, but it's not intended.

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Vornne, let me tell you how glad I am that the maker of this mod actually GETS IT.  The amount of people who complain that violence isn't "proper roleplay" are getting out of hand.  I had a guy point his bow at my head and draw while I was the Lord, and IN MY OWN CASTLE, and had just commanded him to leave my sight.  So as soon as he twitched that arrow into his hand, one of my trusty men-at-arms put an Xbow bolt in his head.  And he comes back over World Chat saying, "Weeh wehh it was just a joke, I didn't mean it, you killed me randomly for nothing!"  He complained for 20 minutes while I patiently explained to him what Roleplay is.

As a laid-back Californian, I would expect that most of you Euros would actually COMPREHEND YOUR OWN HISTORY.  You know what happened to the medieval commoner "roleplaying" insanity?  Institutions for the insane didn't exist until the Enlightenment period, and even then they were hellholes.  So all those people who "roleplay" a crazy person should probably expect to be thrown into a dungeon, tortured, and killed.  Not "played with."

Vornne:  In the newest version, moneymaking is so easy that my friend and I routinely have 50k each after just an hour or so.  So yeah, you are right, there is no excuse but laziness.

Splint:  Admins don't need superweapons or protection, as they already have the ultimate weapon.  Killed by a rager?  Just shows you whose dumbass to perma ban.