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Blood Gryphon said:

and more devs might be willing to work with us. I can understand the majority of devs not wanting to interact with the forums considering how toxic it is and how fast people think they are speaking for the entire company when it's just their opinion

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I've seen this opinion a lot, and I must say I disagree. The individual devs being part of the forum or not is between them and their employer, but TW as a company owes us a lot more than they're currently giving in terms of community presence and interaction. Particularly since it was an express promise in their EA announcement.

AxiosXiphos said:

However all i was trying to say is this. If you still want to project to be a success then jump in and provide that critical feedback. I will probably agree with most of it and support it!

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Fair enough. Well, I can't say I've seen any sign of critical feedback having been taken aboard*, though I guess it's possible. I do think the boat has sailed on this EA phase being anything but an abysmal failure (except financially) however. I'd love to be wrong about that, but so far have seen no reason to be particularly optimistic.
*I don't mean "followed to the letter", just that it has been registered and put forward to the decision makers.

AxiosXiphos said:

If you can't be constructive then move on. That's all I'm saying; and if your signature is your own words then I don't see how you can disagree with that - even if we don't see eye-to-eye.

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It's a rewrite (one might say dig at) a similar signature I saw around here, albeit one with the opposite opinion (no criticism allowed, it's EA, all the usual excuses). Incidentally I have moved on, largely, I just pop in occasionally (about once a week) to check for progress/updates, non-existent though they usually are, and if there's a response to something I posted, I might look at that. Or not. Depends on time available.

AxiosXiphos said:

don't want to throw any more toxin into this forum; it's already bursting with it.

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Yeah, true, and while I'm probably not helping the situation any, part of the reason why I have been "extreme" in my posting is the very toxic response given to anyone who dared to criticize has received - usually in the form of belittling their intelligence, judgment or financial prowess. Tilting at windmills may be an accurate reference, there.

AxiosXiphos said:

This should be the first port of call if you don't want to contribute anymore to the project.

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Classic fanboy. "If you don't worship TW and think Bannerlord is the best thing ever, delete your forum profile". Protip: Echo chambers are not conducive to balanced discussions or product improvement.

Not that the forum profile has any value, it's not like there's dev involvement or game updates to be had. Which is why I only bother to check in here once a week or so (and no I don't play the game any more either).

KSHMR said:

My opinion on this is simple, don't buy an EA game if you are not passionate about helping the devs make a great game.

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And what does "helping the devs" consist of? Shouting at other users? Creating a cult-esque "all is well" echo chamber?

babelfisch said:

Doesn't make much sense.

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Yes, stay true to type.

babelfisch said:

In a year (assuming everything goes well)

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That's a hell of an assumption given what we've seen so far

babelfisch said:

you will have the same version of the game like someone who buys the full release The only difference is that you had the chance to play earlier. Why should you pay less for that?

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Are you serious? Because I bought a broken product without the benefit of knowing what it was. IE I trusted the developer to create a good product. And that's in your hypothetical "all will be well in a year" scenario (more like eight months now). Which seems insanely optimistic given the glacial progress so far. For a (relatively generous) list of what the last three-and-a-half months or so have given us, see this topic: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/new-content-since-release-analysis.427234/

And yet your activity consists of arguing with people when they are unhappy with the (lack of) progress, with there being no roadmap, communications, community involvement or anything of the sort.

Still not sure what your motivations are, but I suspect you don't even know yourself.

I see you've failed to come up with any kind of coherent response. I think that speaks for itself.

The butler did it. Bob was there, too.

babelfisch said:

I don't see why they should give you a 50% discount just because you are able to play the game before it's released.

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Because they chose to release under a scheme where they get to cash in early. Which was their choice. Just like the original M&B, which was quite cheap and gradually increased in price as it neared completion. A process TW explicitly referenced in their EA description.

babelfisch said:

Which actions?

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babelfisch said:

You can raise your voice as much as you want, just don't expect anyone to agree with you when you say stupid things.

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Those actions: continually arguing and belittling those who criticize the game. You say you accept criticism yet you attack anyone who does so. In the last two posts alone you have called them:

babelfisch said:

easily manipulated

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babelfisch said:

shouldn't be trusted with money

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babelfisch said:

they should blame themselves

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babelfisch said:

their own stupidity

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babelfisch said:

aren't man enough to admit that they made a mistake

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babelfisch said:

you say stupid things

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Sense a theme there? And all that hostility because...what? They dared criticize a broken product?

Maybe you're trying to convince yourself that you are the smart one, and it's all those other stupid whining people who were tricked, I don't know, your motivations seem very odd indeed.

babelfisch said:

I don't know. Take a look at movie trailers or a book cover. Nobody would get the idea to sue an author because they didn't like their book and yet it's a reoccurring theme on gaming forums.

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People have actually sued (and won) based on movie trailers showing content that didn't appear in the final movie. As for not judging a book by its cover, I believe that's a fairly well-known adage, but that's not what we're talking about.

babelfisch said:

In my opinion, someone who gets easily manipulated shouldn't be trusted with money or they should blame themselves when they are not happy with their purchase.

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So you agree TW's EA description is manipulative and trying to con people into a purchase they wouldn't have made if they'd known the true state of the product they bought?

babelfisch said:

In regards to Bannerlord, some people actually managed to manipulate and trick themselves, otherwise it would be impossible to miss all the warning and disclaimers in the EA description. TW literally told them to not buy the game.
So now they blame TW for their own stupidity and they aren't man enough to admit that they made a mistake. That's as low as it gets.

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People manipulated and tricked themselves? I should have known you would find a way to make this the customer's fault. Forgive me for giving you the benefit of the doubt for a second there. But hey, you're right about one thing: the people who bought this product (or any future TW product) are stupid and deserved to be tricked. Of course to blindly defend that position is not stupid and a case of refusing to admit a mistake at all.

babelfisch said:

Which doesn't mean there is no place for constructive criticism

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By which you mean your version of constructive, ie not criticism at all, but praise for the TW overlords who, in their mercy, have given us this flawless game-to-end-all-games.

Absurd, yes, but just look at the mountain of "it's EA", "you're just salty bro", "you have no life" and similar that gets thrown at anyone who dares raise their voice in dissent.

babelfisch said:

Sometimes people need to vent when they are frustrated and the state of the game is far from finished.

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You say the words but your actions seem to indicate you either don't understand or believe them.

stevehoos said:

there's nothing we can do

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Well, a couple of things...
A) Give it a negative review (or change it to negative) if not done already
B) Never buy a Taleworlds product again
C) Warn others

But you're right, TW is laughing all the way to the bank on this one.

babelfisch said:

A "general impression" is quite subjective though.

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True.

babelfisch said:

IIRC even NMS/HG won in court so I guess you really need to **** up that general impression...

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Well yeah. I don't think anyone is seriously considering taking TW to court - but there's a lot of room for predatory/misleading practices (and therefore fair game for criticism) without it being clear-cut enough to make a case of. For the record I'd never personally bother with a court case either, that's blowing things out of proportion.

That I happen to think games/software companies in general are given way too much lenience compared to other trades/businesses is another matter (and not related specifically to this situation). Probably more to do with the fact that society (and therefore legislation) has not quite caught up with just how big a business it is.

Gerta said:

Meaning, even if an ad is literally true, if it conveys a "general impression" that is misleading, a court will still find that the ad is misleading.

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Thank you! Whether one agrees or not that TW has been/are running a misleading EA campaign, the "it's technically correct" crowd doesn't have a leg to stand on. I love Futurama, but "technically correct" is not, in fact, the best kind of correct.

Hodor NOT said:

No idea where this game is headed. Will they fix the perks and call it finished? Will they actually add real diplomacy? Meaningful quests?

What I am worried about is the potential danger that at the end of the road, the finished game will actually be less complete than what I imagined EA to be.

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Well put.

Ten thousand bowls of oatmeal all taste the same

babelfisch said:

And your interpretation is that everything is ready?

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I rest my case. You're obviously trolling.

babelfisch said:

It's like half of the entire text:

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Read what I've written again (if you're able to take off your White Knight goggles for a moment) and you'll see I've already addressed all of those.

babelfisch said:

I guess you need to read it again. ?‍

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Or maybe you do, if you think there's any more than what I mentioned in there. Because there isn't (please do point them out if so).

AxiosXiphos said:

The point is; and the only point is; EA means nothing

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Agreed. It shouldn't be used to excuse anything, an alpha or beta test can have any and all shortcomings it wants, while a released game, sold for money, should be judged as just that (it's fair to take the price point into account).

Revverie said:

This is off topic dude

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Yeah it's clashing with all the updates TW are posting... ohwait