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Hi all, I might give PoP another run out but can anyone point me to a handy submod that nerfs bows/crossbows a bit so won't have to bother digging in the files myself? I remember there was one that changed damage type to cutting and dropped the accuracy a bit etc.

Thanks a lot.

Ah nevermind, it's Pendor Rearmed. Read my own post history, lol.

Hi, I tried this mod because I really liked the idea. Love PoP but some things really get on my nerves, first and foremost severely overpowered archery and firing longbows from horses.

Seems to work quite well but some of the bow stats are puzzling me. The short horn bow which can be used mounted does more damage and with far greater speed than the foot bows. Am I missing something here? From the way I am reading the stats the hornbow (for example) seems strictly superior to any of the footman bows.

*edit - Nevermind, noticed the short bows are cutting damage. Duh!

Works great, feels like you are actually wearing armor (!) when it comes to projectiles. Makes infantry useful! Makes cool two handed heavy armor troops useful! High tier archers with heavy crossbows or longbows still dangerous and useful but no longer machine guns, I still use archers all the time and they are more fun to use properly. Also a javelin to the face will still ruin your day, and the noldor will smash your entire line if you let them have an open firing line, but armor actually does something.

I use this mod with the horse archer ai and it balances very well to make HAs harassing troops to disrupt enemy formations and pick light troops but not jeeps with anti-material rifles.

Thanks a lot!

Thanks guys. I might tweak those numbers a bit and/or just suck it up and spend a bunch of gems.

For spending prestige I'll pass. Maybe when the game is over and I want to amass 1000 order troops for an assault on the noldor or something. Anyway I'm only about half way through the honor grind to get minimum prices. In a great mod, the order upgrade / prestige system is the only thing that is really dumb.

Good idea.

Everything else about the faction I like. The SLC are lame, don't make any sense. Heavily armored shock cavalry who throw javelins from their horse? Give me a break. Javelin cavalry are skirmishers. SLC are mounted legionnaires, and the whole point of legionnaires is that they are infantry and their equipment is for infantry tactics. The Romans initially had weak cavalry and only solved the problem later, but not by putting their infantry on horses - by copying others and making heavily armored lancers.

Dustriders cost the same as rogue knights. How is that optimal upkeep? I know which I would rather have. It's not that they are bad troops, just not worth it.

You do have a point about the actual impact of SLC in-game, but there are surely other ways to buff empire. It doesn't make any sense from a lore perspective. Empire is loosely based on the Roman legions. The legions won by having a very high standard of training for regular troops (and having a lot of them). They did not have the best elites who made up for their regulars, it was the other way around. So Empire is the opposite of the Romans.  Plus Empire in-game are known for having weaker cavalry. They already have immortals, which kick ass. It's a bit much to also give them the best mounted honor troops.

sher said:

They need their stats not to suck with their mediocre swords, slow horses, slow shields and not so damaging lances. They are upgraded Empire Guardian Knights and have very vulnerable sergeants to compensate knights power. As knights they are best, as order as a whole...

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Dawn sergeants, for example, are worthless as you need Valonbray for the order which normally gives you easily attainable Huscarls etc. which are better. Even if you don't have them a lot of easy-to-get infantry is better. A lot of sergeants are worthless in general or at best a nice and flavorful but totally unnecessary bonus. The point of honor troops is to be the best of the best. Sure, the idea from a flavor perspective is for the sergeants to compliment the knights, but really how well does that work in game? D'shar dustriders are useless given that they cost more than other, better, cavalry you can get easier than them. Eventide ghilmen are meh. And so on. Pump my honor knight's profs by 10 and you can just keep the sergeants. Only ones worth talking about are very specialist infantry like the gauntlet hammers. So an argument like 'but their sergeants suck' goes just as well for other orders, whose knights, relative to SLCs, also suck.

thermocline said:

The thing that puts them over the top is the 500 WPF + throwing weapons. Without the javelins, I don't think they would be so superior.

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Yes, but with them they are. Actually I think you could lower their profs by 100 and they would still be one of, if not still, the most powerful order. That's pretty broken.

Nevermind, it eventually started producing. Sorry for the early OMG where are my honor troops. Ok to delete thread, unless someone wants to tell me whether anything affects the recruitment rate from chapters e.g. relations, shrines/churches, renown etc.

It still doesn't make sense, just because it doesn't often reach that point where it's an issue doesn't make it a good mechanic. What an ordinary playthrough is may vary depending on the person. This mechanic penalizes those who want to have a long game where they take losses in order troops over time, losses which ultimately there is no way to make up, or who want to use their order troops freely as they become available. Also the points about it rendering sergeant troops pointless and encouraging hoarding stand.

Ah, I see. Well in that case I think it limits the fun of prestige troops. Let me give you my two cents.

Yes, it's nice to get free order troops from your chapters, but given that I now know prestige is limited, it makes spending it much less attractive. Seems to make sergeant troops especially a fairly bad deal. Why would I want to spend what seems to be the only limited and precious resource in the game on, say, griffon retainers, when I could easily pick up some better cavalry for free? Or dawn wyverns when I can get huscarls or men at arms from commoners? That's a real shame because those troops are cool.  Also it encourages hoarding prestige until you bottom out their price due to high honor, which takes a long time and, again, takes the fun out of hiring order troops as they become available to help your empire.

This prestige mechanic also makes little sense generally. Taking renown first, you have this lord who is annihilating everyone, thus gaining renown. After a while, people get used to him winning everything and so the victories are not so impressive (diminishing renown returns) and if he goes quiet for a while it really affects his reputation (renown decay). That makes sense.

Now to prestige. This lord, while he is destroying everyone has attracted a great number of elite troops, and sought them out himself (spending prestige). Now he has reached the height of his renown. There is no earthly way this guy can get any more awesomely renowned. But all of a sudden no more elite troops want to join him, even though he keeps winning every single battle, simply because he is not getting any more renowned than he already is. If he's lost his elite troops already, or whenever he does, which is inevitable, he will never be able to directly get any more no matter how much destruction he wreaks, because he's not going to surpass his renown high point. So, even though he's the most awesome powerhouse of a lord in the universe and continues to own everyone, he has to rely on the very slow chapter houses for order troops. This makes no sense.

noosers said:

Prestige is reknown. So if you acquire another 200 points  of reknown in a battle, your prestige raises for another 200 points you can spend on knighthood orders. If you ever get short of it, fight more battles. It´s pretty easy to grind reknown if you know how to, which is, smallest battlesize and small personal army size. For example, using only companions and hunting down Vanskerry or Jatu bands will earn you a ton of good loot, XP and reknown quite fastly.

http://mountandblade.wikia.com/wiki/Renown

The more Renown you have, the more difficult it becomes to maintain and accumulate. At the beginning of each battle, there is a "Renown value" shown, which is the base amount you would gain for winning (the effective Renown value of Tier 6 of a tournament is 20); for every 200 Renown you currently have (rounded down), the amount of Renown you gain for winning is reduced by 1. For instance, if you have over 1200 renown, then you will not gain any Renown for winning a battle with a Renown value of 6 or less. This reduction (i.e. your current Renown / 200, rounded down) is also the amount of Renown you lose at the end of each week.

So basically, it´s a 0,5% loss per week. 50 reknown for 10000 points of reknown loss per week. Easily covered and replaced by fighting the minor faction parties (and adding 50 fresh points of prestige on your account).

So prestige is infinite unless you cease fighting.

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Thanks for the explanation but I'm still a little unclear. Let's say you reach the practical limit of your renown accumulation due to insurmountable decay. You have 50000 renown or whatever, figure doesn't matter, and you have spent 50000 prestige. At this point or whatever figure is right for you, it's practically impossible to gain more renown, so you're not going to get more prestige? If you let the renown decay to 1000 now, your spent prestige is still 50000, but it's much easier to gain renown. My question is whether you now gain prestige or whether you need to get over 50000 renown to gain any more. Thanks.

Is prestige a limited resource? As you gain renown you gain prestige to spend but your renown decays and it doesn't seem the spent prestige is ever recoverable or that it is reduced by the decay in renown. So if I understand it correctly you reach a point where your renown levels off at a high figure and it's basically impossible to gain any prestige, which would suck.

If that's the case it would make me very reluctant to spend prestige on honor troops, which takes away a lot of fun. Can someone confirm please? Thanks.

Cool, got it. And they did respawn.

fladin said:

pop work in 1.158 like a charm

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Thanks for your answer.

Got another question -

Working as a Merc and the enemy beat me in battle and captured a bunch of my companions. Couldn't afford to ransom them but I could see where they were being held. Then the faction I was working for went to peace with the enemy and the captured companions disappeared. 'Whereabouts unknown' in character screen. Will they come back? Think I came across this before but forget since it's so long since I played the mod. Thanks.

Can I install PoP over the latest WB patch (1.15 or do I need an earlier patch version?

Witchcraft! I knew those Griffin knights were no good.

Lol you come on and complain about the mod, say you're finished playing it. I take the time to respond in detail to what you actually said, which probably didn't merit a reply since you don't know anything about the mod. Then you complain about thread hijacking and start name-calling You're not doing yourself any favours.