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How has this thread, with its literal pages of nonsensical spam, not been locked yet?

HalfMetalJacket 说:

Speaking of archers though, you got some facts wrong.

I don't see how Khuzait Marksmen outclass Master Archers at all. Sure, their progression is less borked, and they might be more well armoured, but their bows are the same, their arrows are inferior and so are their skills. Lmao, how is a 160 bow skill for the Master Archer only 'adequate' compared to the Marksman's 130? When you want to mow down footsloggers, the Master Archer has the Marksman beat.

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Admittedly, I had originally wrote that the two shared the second place, but changed it before posting. I prefer to avoid making non-conclusive/indecisive statements like "both have their own advantages!!!!", so I'm more than happy to be wrong here. Adequate bow skill referred to the latter two, as a way to just say "average" since Palantine Guards arbitrarily have 160. As for why I said KM > AMA, I considered the simpler progression path and much better armor to be superior to the bows/arrows, which differ in damage by 1.

Were the Palantine Guards modified very recently? I could've sworn that they were using smaller recurve bows. Either way, they still only have one quiver.

Given the nonstop horde of respawning peasant armies coupled with the limited party sizes, the player is incentivized to maximize efficiency per party slot. Should the player engage in battles instead of auto-resolving them, this translates to choosing units that can inflict maximum casualties while incurring minimal losses. Claim that two-hander units–or any infantry, for that matter–are as effective as much as you want; they still have to be vulnerable in melee to provide value, where they will get stunlocked and die in any outnumbered situation, assuming that they hadn't already died to three arrows. Archers are the only archetype capable of consistently providing value regardless of the state of the battle. With the current states of arrow damage, crossbowmen inefficiency, armor mitigation, AI effectiveness, cavalry effectiveness, ad nauseam, valuing non-archers whatsoever is inane, and discussions revolving around non-archer units are obsolete.

Battanian Fian Champions are the best unit in the game, outclassing even Khan's Guards. Second best are Khuzait Marksmen. Third are Aserai Master Archers. These three units have decent equipment, two quivers, and adequate bow skill. Palantine Guards, while being easy to amass due to being bowmen from T2, have a poor end state with a weak bow and only one quiver. Veteran Bowmen are an actual joke.

If the player were to exclusively auto-resolve, then the best unit would be whatever cheap commoner cavalry can be attained. Ultimately, is this a discussion about the value of faction troops for the player or the AI? The answer will be different. As Bannerlord currently is, only archers matter, and the best faction unit is whichever is the best archer.

Marriage is an area I see no reason to have any random checks whatsoever. To use an example from another game, Fallout: NV overcame the burdens of RNG checks through using thresholds for persuasion – either your character had 50 speech or they didn't. Bannerlord has the luxury of having a lot of factors to call upon here. Relation with the clan, the player character's traits, the player character's charm, and the potential spouse's traits. Instead of a preposterous 89% chance if you have three out of four traits congruent with an answer, why not something like the following? In the specific example seen in the OP, the player requires at least two out of the following to progress to the next stage:

• Choosing an appropriate response congruent with the spouse's traits
  • For example, a merciful spouse would appreciate "the good outweighs the evil" over "cruelty is fascinating"
• Over a certain charm stat threshold
• Over a certain relation threshold
• An overlap/congruency with the spouse's traits.
  • For example, if the spouse is Calculating, Merciful, and Honorable, then they will match with a player that is Merciful.

StewVader 说:

How about being able to customize your settlements? If you are the lord of a castle and its villages you should be able to dictate what the villagers produce there (limitations set by surrounding natural resources) for example - if you are by a water source you can produce fish or any crop. If the village is near a mountain it can do silver or iron etc etc. Let the player feel a sense of OWNERSHIP of the settlements. Also castles should DO SOMETHING. They should either have a zone of control that slows down enemy parties and causes attrition or produce something of value other than taxes.

Additionally, upgrades to settlements should require resources that you and/or your companions accumulate (like wood / iron). Honestly the player just needs more control and agency over everything. We currently have very little.

Maybe if we form our own kingdom we can customize our own troops, our own culture after an amount of time?

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The economy is more fragile than a house of cards; I wouldn't be surprised if allowing the player to control village output would somehow start a map-wide recession.

In terms of reasonable RPG mechanics, I'd be an advocate of adding much more dialogue in the game as a vessel for the player to interact with the world.

• Debates with Lords regarding politics/views on the world, potentially awarding renown and flipping their traits depending on the player's own trait scores.
• Lords have differing dialogues with the player depending on both parties' traits.
  • For example, with at minimum Mercy Tier 1 score, the player will find that sufficiently outnumbered Lords will actually surrender.
• Any interaction at all with companions.

Honestly, that modders have managed to have varied dialogue systems with companions that impact trait scores such as those in True Relations, while TW has produced nothing, is embarrassing.

ste636 说:

TW clearly targeted BL to a new audience, and audience used to have quick solutions, able only to read meme-like texts, who likes to be taken by the hand and catered all the way through the game (archers are OP, nerf the bows, how do I make money, how do i play the game etc etc).
Think of how many games have issues because the tutorial is not enough "tutoring".

Business-wise TW made the right (short term) decision, the results of this survey are clear, they attracted masses of new players.

Where do we stand as lovers of true sandbox RPGs? We are in minority nowadays, collateral damage....

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Well, more objectively, with actual metrics, the subreddit's subscriber count more than doubled on Bannerlord's release date.

Companions of Warband had unique dialogue on:

• Recruitment
• Talking about two disliked and one liked companions
• Being sent to raise right to rule
• Being sent to spy on some kingdom
• Approaching some settlement
• Complaining about a disliked action
• Recruitment after having initially left the party
• Complaining about sending a disliked companion to raise right to rule

Companions of Bannerlord have:

• (insert generic backstory here)

If you spend any time on the forums, you'll incessantly see threads created by different people with different gripes. I've been here a decent amount of time and still learn about new issues or bugs in the game daily, even when the game hasn't been updated in weeks. That should be a concise answer.

The amount of work to implement naval mechanics when the game obviously has no framework for it would be staggering for such a minimal benefit. I can think of no rationale to do so. Here, let me read into the parallel future where naval stuff is implemented, and show you the patch notes:

• The player can now purchase boats at coastal towns
  • Not mentioned: the player can still purchase boats at landlocked towns. Doing so will crash the game.
  • Not mentioned: the player can still purchase boats in villages. Doing so will turn the village's prosperity negative.
  • Not mentioned: the player purchasing boats will cause the town to flip ownership.
  • Not mentioned: town prosperities broken again.
• AI lords can now travel by sea.
  • Not mentioned: All land pathfinding has been deleted, AI on the worldmap now will not move.
  • Not mentioned: AI boats will inexplicably loop around islands until they starve.

AxiosXiphos 说:

Books are gone yeah... but come one...? They were rubbish anyway.

Camping is basically just waiting. There was nothing tied to it.

Strategic dialogue has been replaced by the army system - which I feel is a lot cleaner and more effective (but still needs work).

World building dialogue - there is as much if not more in bannerlord. All civilians give you short bits, lords have various statements on current events. Most Kings / Lords can give you their view on politics. The encyclopedia offers a huge wealth of world building which never existed in warband. This is still being developed though.

Inter Companion Relations - yeah this is missing but was an annoyance in Warband. We know somthing sort of along these lines is planned (as there are a few comments your companions make on your actions.

Right to rule - has been replaced by renown and influence; both much more visible and more versatile resources.

Right click accompany - okay yeah that would be nice.

Troops do receive morale penalties when at war with their culture.

Morale bonus is tied to food type (see food variety) under morale.

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I mean, if you state that there are no features missing, and someone starts listing some, "they were rubbish anyway" is not a valid counterpoint. They were part of the game, and they were an option for players that were interested. Books, in particular, had a significant impact on character builds. They're now gone from Bannerlord with no counterpart. Camping was a more immersive way to pass the time and served as a vessel to perform other actions. Because all of those actions – choosing books, recruiting prisoners – have either been removed or streamlined, camping was obsoleted.

The army system has replaced the marshal system, which is a welcome change – now you can't neuter a kingdom by imprisoning its marshal. However, strategic dialogue has no counterpart in Bannerlord without mods. In Warband, you could ask parties to patrol an area; in Bannerlord, you cannot direct AI parties whatsoever.

World-building dialogue is indeed present in the encyclopedia for a more streamlined experience. While I understand that many players prefer this, moving aspects to such a component outside the game-world reduces immersion. Not countering you on this, just my two cents. Subjective dislike.

Inter-companion relations refers more to the pre-defined companion characters of Warband. To be honest, that is a feature in its own right. Someone, perhaps it was you, stated something along the lines of having to just go from tavern to tavern just to find the optimal companions, but Bannerlord is the same but with even lower flavor. Going around and searching for Jeremus is much more enjoyable than looking in the encyclopedia for whatever copy-pasted the Knowing the game generates for me. Also, companions are also implemented very poorly in Bannerlord, but that is a discussion for another topic.

Right to rule is gone entirely from Bannerlord. Granted, RtR wasn't that significant anyway outside of adding higher value to "Because I am the rightful ruler" in defection persuasions. Renown was already present in Warband and was much more natural. Stuff like your party size and whether you could join a Kingdom, or even be granted the standard village if joining a Kingdom as a female, was determined by your renown, not by an arbitrary clan tier number. Influence is also arguably just a ****ty mana system that is largely disconnected from the world. You could be steamrolling battle after battle but have no influence because your character absurdly loses mass amounts of influence from vague policies.

Yes, morale bonus is tied to food variety in Bannerlord, but the morale bonus in Warband is tied to the actual food type. That's why I put it as a miscellaneous immersive feature. Beef and Grain would give you +7 and +2 morale, off the top of my head. Of course, your troops should be happier to have higher quality food types like meat. In Bannerlord, that translates to +1 and +1 morale.

AxiosXiphos 说:

But that is such an unfair comparison. We had over 10 years of modding; the game hasn't been released 6 months yet... In 10 years time we will have incredible Bannerlord mods... so what..? You can only compare base game to base game.

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This isn't a fair point to make. Bannerlord doesn't exist in a vacuum; it has ample references to draw upon from Warband and its subsequent DLC and mods. "We've had over 10 years of modding", you say, but they've also had those ten years to study their success and develop the sequel.

AxiosXiphos 说:

Yeah that's fair enough - but people often suggest that it is 'missing' features from Warband - which is untrue.

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Just off the top of my head, because I know people aplenty have already constructed numerous lists to disprove this claim:

• Books as an immersive mechanic to improve character stats
• Camping
• Strategic dialogue with lords – "I have a suggestion for you"
• Worldbuilding dialogue with lords – "What do you think of politics..."
• More mechanics with companions
  • Send out to generate right to rule, which is also completely missing in BL
  • Defined inter-companion relationship net
• Miscellaneous QOL features
  • Right Click > Accompany
• Miscellaneous immersive features
  • Troops receive morale penalties when at war with their culture
  • Morale bonus tied to type of food, not quantity as it is in Bannerlord, e.g., Beef, Pork, Chicken provide more morale bonuses than Grain.

cyresdog 说:

At this point the only enjoyable thing about Bannerlord is the renting and venting on the forums. Honest to god, i had way more joy spending time on here than i ever had playing Bannerlord lmao.
They should just make a single scene in a Tavern with everyone of us in. And we just argue how horrible Bannerlord is. We get 4th wall breaking dialogue. And each of us is gonna be a billionare from selling 1 Javelin. The Barkeeper tries to walk behind his counter, but there is a ladder infront of it so he just walks around it 24/7. There are the Leader of every faction sitting on a table right in the middle of the room declaring war on each other every 2 seconds. I would play that

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4th wall breaking dialogue is already in the game as part of the main questline. Nice immersion.

+1 to the OP. Recruitment in Bannerlord currently feels like human trafficking. I'd like to see the relation gain for village quests start applying to all the notables; such a change would help reduce the grind. Most of the village quests seem to be for the benefit of the entire village: Extortion by Deserters, Seed Grain, Train Troops, Eliminate Bandits, Eliminate Bandit Base, etc. Off the top of my head, Landowner needs access to Pastures, Runaway Daughter, Family Feud, and maybe the newest Bandit Manual Labor quests are the only ones that explicitly solely benefit the quest-giver and harmonize with the current system of only the quest-giver gaining relation.

RoboSenshi 说:

Undoubtedly modding will save this franchise. Thank god for our wonderful community.

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Depends on how in-depth the modding tools are, which I'm doubtful will ever come out.

RoboSenshi 说:

That's a fair assessment. I'm sure my deep disappointment is fueled by years of speculation, delay and over hype.

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Not necessarily. I wasn't significantly hyped for Bannerlord and am still disappointed by its current state. Doesn't matter how you look at it – that a game 10 years in development is lacking mechanics with no indication of return from its predecessor in 2010 made by a much smaller team with fewer resources is disappointing.

I'll bite. Seems like you were trying to link to this. Feasts seem like a weird topic to be worked up over, but the existence of feasts in Warband indicated that Taleworlds kept Lord to Lord relations in consideration. Feasts existed as a vessel for the AI could regain relation with each other. Roll your eyes and be as pretentious as you want, but their departure from Bannerlord indicates that Taleworlds is cutting corners and no longer caring about this, ultimately reducing the depth and immersion. Indeed, with the ruler clans hoarding fiefs so much up until this patch and constantly acting against the majority, that there is nothing even resembling Lord to Lord relations present is obvious.

EDIT: That you've flippantly disregarded a well-constructed, comprehensive list of missing content that affects other players merely because one item seemed minor speaks volumes about your interest to even engage in a genuine discussion.

MostBlunted 说:

Does it even matter?

Is "your" opinion more worth if you have more posts or joined 5 years ago when TW was still show casing feautes in their dev blogs which will never be in the game?

An argument is good, if it´s a good argument...

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I would say that the majority of praise comes from newer accounts because older fans of the series have Warband as a frame of reference.

I'd better not be quoted later on as saying something as pretentious as older fans are "real" fans.

cyresdog 说:

I never said all recruits love bannerlord, I said all new accounts seem to love bannerlord. The forum rank increases with posts not when you registered

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Close. The rank actually increases with time spent on the forums, with Regular rank occurring sometime around the one day mark. Still, your first point is correct. The majority of the satisfied comments seem to come from accounts made at and post Bannerlord launch.

Hey, I'll bite. Not my fault you don't understand how the direct object of that sentence relates to the subject. I refer to the roadmap constantly because it's the most comprehensive source of information we currently have. Mexxico's posts are the next best. Feel free to source a TW statement to prove otherwise, since all you've done thus far is downplay sources and/or use anecdotes. Discarding all the others? I'd love to see some of these "others", as to the extent of my knowledge, all we have are Callum's copy-pastes and occasional "the team is aware of this".

Also, here's what's mentioned on the store page:

• Unique Maps
• Quest Content
• Balancing
• Voice overs
• Savegames
• Bugs and glitches
• Localization
• Multiplayer modes and features
• Singleplayer features
  • EXPLICIT EXAMPLES: controller support, skill/perk effects, crafting, siege aspects, clan/army/kingdom management
• Rebellions

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Save for rebellions, none of these are features. You can say "it says INCLUDE BUT NOT LIMITED TO!" as much as you'd like, but the fact remains that TW has remained consistent in refraining from promising anything on the scale that the community has been asking for. I hate to default to Occam's razor, but we only have two perspectives here. Is TW is going to about-face and do stuff like make radical overhauls of the game to integrate a political layer despite already struggling with catching the most blatant bugs? Or, is it more likely that TW is going to maintain their current momentum and only work on bugfixing and polish as their team, roadmap, and blurbs all promise?

The consensus refers to the image that is painted by responses from TW employees, not the forum. Obviously the forum is rife with different opinions, as any online medium will have. I'll copy paste a post I previously wrote in regards to the roadmap. Didn't think it was necessary given the context, but I probably should've, given the poor levels of reading comprehension in this thread.

Telyon 说:

Here's a link to their own roadmap. Notice how all of their goals relate to either an improvement or refinement of an existing system. Yes, they explicitly say "some of these" as a preamble, but when all you see is of one category with no mention of any new content, it's time to start calling the trees a forest. Here's a reply from mexxico casting doubt on how many features from Warband will be present, despite admitting that doing so would greatly benefit the game. Bannerlord is feature complete.

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It's ironic that you've placed such high regard on official statements only to routinely disregard their validity the moment they're presented.