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The strategy worked for me in Perisno because you can set the hired troops armor and weaps as you wish - I had dwarves armoured in +70 base body armor. Add gloves and a good helm and... nothing dented it. Less tanky archers will take dmg, especially in cav charges and to missiles.

From what you're saying re dmg calcs PoP vs Perisno, its obvious why I'm struggling. PoP doesn't have any read made tanky archers (at least, not as easy to get super tanky archers as in Perisno) so I need to change my playstyle slightly. Tried a few battles using the previous tactics - I'm just making sure to take care of the enemy's heaviest troops myself, and race back to my archer line to protect it from those nasty knights by killing and distracting them. Its working much better now.

I was using my archers wrong, I assumed they could take care of themselves in melee better than they can. Tactics were fine, but I need to protect my archers better.

I like that you can't get those super tanks too early in PoP. It really did make Perisno too easy.

Great, so field battles are now sorted. Now I'll think about my sieges

Brew 说:

If you use all foot army you don't need to micromange them much, only cavalry and horsearchers require micromanagement, infantry and archers just need a decent hill to perform well.

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Good points. In Perisno my standard army is full archer line using the hired troops - typically dwarven crossbows armed with polehammer. They are lethal at range, and in 3-deep ranks are a nasty foot death ball. I think I'll try that tactic again - nice mixed line of noldor, VS for spears and two handers, I'll set my companions as polehammer archers, and try some tanky archers like EACs or MACs/MSs. Might be fun. I'm not sure a pure archer line like this will hold up in Pendor - KO knights might wreak havoc with it. I'll test it, and if it doesn't work I'll throw in a tank infantry line in front of my archers.

Gorvex 说:

@the_pirate:
Also, for field battles, use terrain to your advantage. You can select from 3 different battle maps for each battle if you do a tactical retreat right at the start. Find the one that would appeal to you the best.

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Ha! I've never used that tactical retreat to get a better battle map. Stupid I know, but I'm going to give it a shot now. TY

Ty all. Good tips. I figured the following:

1) I was being a bit lazy and not micro managing battles. Time to get off my ass and take care of those nasty beserkers and lions.

2) I tend to use a lot of veccavi sentinels, PABs, Ravenstern wardens at this stage of the game (no castle/town yet). VSs and PABs are not that useful for field battles, only really useful as cheap garrisons. This is especially so when you're facing some lord with tons of lions. Changed strategy to using lethaldrin's weekly noldors in place of VSs and PABs. Also trying to get some KO troops by bounty questing and shattering the target. That should get me enough good quality troops (I find that armies based on lvld recruits simply aren't strong enough to take on armies including KOs). If I fail to get KO troops (Sometimes they don't give troops even if you exceed target by 15-20 times), I'll try save some blackheart squire prisoners and lvl them up to knights, and I love rogue knights too. Are there any other tough tanky troops that people enjoy using early game? Pls not hero adventurers - I prefer not to use them

3) I was taking castles close to enemy centres. I'm guessing that AI chooses which castles to seige based on a) troop numbers, b) proximity to centres, c) how recently taken it was, d) recent defeats by their realm and victories by you. I'm going to change this and take something not too close to centre and race around whittling their field armies down before cap and after cap. Hopefully I'll run into some nice prisoner stacks and get some garrison troops that way.

4) 10+4 surgery eh? I've normally survived on lower, but you're right I guess - the more the merrier, especially since I'm already taking too heavy losses.

5) Noted re castle garrisons. I've just come from Perisno and they have a really nice feature where garrisons get immediately sorted by lvl, which automatically ensures that your best spawn first. I forgot for a second that this is not default... thanks for the reminder guys

6) I can solo alone to 30, but I do enjoy lvling my companions I'll stick to lvling my companions, its more fun for me.

7) I hate losing sieges purely due to KOs and CKOs set up there. Anyone know a good tank unit to hold walls that can be easily and cheaply gotten? Pendor Bladesman perhaps? Also how are people finding the new pilgrim line, particularly war priests and battle brothers? Battle Brothers should in theory be super troops (not bad WPs, ok weaps) but I find they do barely anything. WPs I like though... squishy but lethal if timed right and placed right (ideally a surprise flank attack from over a hill safe from archer fire).

I need to start disrupting enemy attacks. Again, I got lazy after the past few games with end-game troops (household guards in perisno and CKO on the last pendor playthrough). I forgot just how powerful those troops are in comparison to normal troops. If I keep letting the enemy armies do their thing, they'll keep steamrolling me. Back to basics

Ty all.

@Draenor - thanks I'll try some new tactics. If anything works I'll throw out a comparison of before and after.

sher 说:

No, I'm just honest.

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I <3 honest sweetys!

sher 说:

3. Blame game/people.

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Relax buddy, I'm hardly asking you for a kidney am I?

I'm not complaining about the game or about people - quite the opposite, I've enjoyed it so much I'm upping the difficulty. Maybe I do suck... then again, I've done vanilla, Floris, Perisno, Pendor, 1257 AD. Found all of them easy on all difficulty settings except Pendor on the hardest settings. That made me think 'Oh, interesting! Well done to devs, I wonder why this is so difficult, and I really want to beat this'.

To be perfectly clear: difficult=nice=I like.

Brew 说:

It takes time to adjust from easy to hard so its not surprising you are finding it more difficult.

My main suggestion would be to increase the amount of archers you have, lets say 70-80.

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Will give it a shot. Thanks.

sher 说:

Are you really so desperate for guidance to be a normal person? Google for guides, one in my signature.

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Oh aren't you a sweety? Well sweetcheeks, I already read your guide. It is a great guide. It is already incorporated into my gameplay, amongst other guides, and amongst some tricks I learnt along the way. And it still doesn't address my issue - on the hardest settings I'm getting rolled over, while I normally do the rolling over on easier settings. Thanks for replying anyways I guess.

PS - mod devs, you wonderful ppl you. I'm really enjoying 3.9 (although  I'm sucking at it on hard difficulty )

I prefer to increase my Int and Char over Str and Agi. Reasoning:
Int gives many party skills, particularly critical - Surgery, path finding, trainer
Char gives me leadership and prison management. Never be broke again and loads of cash to upgrade troops fast, possible thanks to trainer.
Str and Agi I take to 15, but only after Int is 21 and Char is around 15.

With companions on 21 int too I could take an army of peasants to tier 4/5 in 5 days. Not half bad come mid-game. Better than being a one-man killing machine I felt, but maybe that's just coz I'm not too good as one man killer

For fort wars crossbow is for me. Lethal, high dmg, no points sunk into skills freeing up slots for party skills.

So how is it going?

Damn, supported Lady Isolla and managed to destroy the swadians. Had it planned out and got some well located towns and castles, then made sure lords of surrounding towns and castles were really buddy-buddy with me. Rebelled, wiped the floor with Harlaus, had khergits declare on me and wiped the floor with them too, then took Swadia's last castle - Victory!

Then things got confusing. Evidently Harlaus retains his title of king but just becomes a vassal - that really confused me till I went to him and realised what was going on. Then there seems to be no option to court Lady I... damn. So I guess at this point gameplay reverts to normal, I have to find me another wife, rebel against the Swadians (not again...!), and take over the whole map the old fashioned way. Bit disappointing tbh. Any mods out there that would allow me to marry Isolla?

tempted to install Floris and see how that goes.

@Vraelomon

Cool! I've got company

40 high lvls is not going to get you anywhere though You'll be battling armies of 100+ when you stop grinding. If you take on their starting armies (i.e. all high lvls) you'll not stand a chance.

I found that with 70 troops things start to become possible. You'll still be outnumbered in the start 70 vs 100 at 150 army size is 62 vs 88 in battle, with 2 reinforcement waves for the enemy - quite a difference if the enemy army has high tier troops...

You'll also need hordes of cash. I found a dyeworks in most vills critical to get me started. Once you get a vill and a castle/town you'll have cash to spare, but till then it is tight.

Enjoy, let us know how you're doing! At this point I have Halmar and 2 castles, a battle army size of 102, renown of 600, honour of 60, right to rule of 20+. My armies consume more cash than my 12 enterprises, but loot from battles, ransoms of slaves and lords make up for it. Now to take another castle, then start pumping them full of troops. What Im gonna do is:

50 swadian skirmishers, 50 swadian militia, 50 camp defenders, 50 merc swords in each castle (all of which will be ready to upgrade). For towns add 50 vaegir skirmishers and 50 nords. All ready to level - theory being i pay peanuts for them, and if a place is beseiged I rush in with my battle army, garrison it and withdraw the garrison, level it and redeposit. Boom... all of a sudden enemy has 50 vaeg archers, 50 sword sisters, 50 swadian infantry and 50 hired blades + my field army to contend with. I think we can hold The micro management though

Short update:

Deleted previous game. Hit 450 days without a castle and with the faction nearly wiped out. Started another and:

Economy:
Got productive enterprises in most towns. Gives quite an income, which at this point in time my army more than consumes so... Taking blunt cavalry (mainly slaver chiefs/manhunter line) on slaving runs for bandits and small enemy armies. Yields loot and prisoners which I sell for cash.

Warring:
Standard tactic - line of heavy infantry with archers behind and cavalry behind that. Hold infantry and archer line till enemy approaches within archer range. Take cavalry round their back. They often turn to face cavalry, taking losses to archers. Charge infantry, wait for cavalry to charge timed to reach as infantry reach. Slaughter ensues. Vs rhodoks same tactic, BUT use hills to keep your cavalry and infantry safe from Rhodok crossbows. Main challenge is in wiping out their campaign army - after that all armies run around with weak units and are easy to kill. At this point I've defeated almost every lord in every faction.

Recruiting:
Struggling to raise troops with Swadia constantly at war, so taking constant losses. Luckily my trainer is high and in 4 days can take an army of recruits up to lvl4. Going to start raising some vills love of me to get masses of troops easier. Also recruiting heavily on sword sisters - best castle defense force ever. Takes time but its worth sticking 100 into whichever castle the enemy is salivating over.

Towns/castles:
Took Uxkhal and Veluca and 2 castles. Lost both towns after 1k enemies descended on them each had around 200 troops, including lvl 4s and lvl 5s. Sigh. Now stacking 200 good troops per castle. Problem is that Sarranids and Rhodoks took over loads of territories. We are at war with the Kerghs and the last few castles in their position are on the rim, far from our main centre and deep behind Sarranid lines. So... going to take those castles and stack them, then hope we go to war with Sarranids to bridge the gap.

End game strategy:
1) Economy - have enterprises in all towns. Do loads of slave runs for cash and loot.
2) Recruiting - have a few vills with high relation per faction, to allow bulk recruitment quickly.
3) Army - have 100 field troops, 50 slavers and 100 castle takers. Rest will be low lvl and lvl 4 garrisons troops.
4) My own kingdom - marry Isola of Swadia when I have enough lords on side and enough castles/towns.

So far so good...

k61824 说:

If you are a vassal at war, use loot and burn while the enemy campaign is engaged.  However if you plan to become king this tactic is not recommended because whoever owns the village will probably hate you and you might at some point want that lord as your vassal.  So if you need that done, do some background checks on the owner (mostly on personality;  I'd only recruit + rep per honor lords)

By background check I meant go get around 60 honour on your books and those guys (typically 3-5 per faction) will automatically become your friends (check your character report for your friends list) even you never met them.  get other lords to raid their lands instead of getting your hands dirty.

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I normally pick one vill per faction and raid that one vill non-stop when at war to prevent having too many people hating me. But I might have to increase to two vills per faction unfortunately. I'll keep the lord background checks in mind.

Atm things not looking good. We were at war against nords and rhodoks, then vaegirs and khergs joined in. My flegdling army got caught by two armies and back to dungeons for me. Then those cheeky khergs came with 1k troops at Narra... I lost it Rhods took Veluca and Suno off us, Nords took Dhirim. two lords defected, and we no longer have a functioning warband - even the king's is just 115 little ones. Things look nasty for us right now. Worse still - I'm down to 1 companion and barely any troops. Not sure yet how to bounce back from this one. I think I could - if I could just do my thing and war on a faction I pick at a time I pick. But I'm not king and that beggar will probably declare on Rhods again. Might have to hand in my oath and join some other faction.

Ok... so rebuilt my army, and we went to war against the Vaegirs, Nords and Sarranids. My tactics (dmg soaker infantry to their line, heavy cavalry and lancers round the back) worked a charm against them - wiped out armies from every enemy faction, took on almost all Nord lords and defeated them including the king (with help from my marshall). Raided a vill a few times, built some dyeworks and other enterprises (always take the best percentage return on investment, which is not always the dyeworks). I even managed to retake Narra and hold it against 3 Sarranid lords, after they retook it off our marshall. So I was awarded it

Findings - ok, I'm still squishy compared to easy, but its no longer that bad at lvl 20. Battles still bloody but it is also not that bad against anyone except Rhodoks (those beggars are killers). Finding cash is really hard what with constant upgrades, constant rebuilding of army - enterprises help but I need around 10k a week... raiding and loot selling is really critical.

Then we went to war against Rhodoks and Nords. Rhodoks kicked my ass - lost an army of 95 includuing 8 companions. I need to change my tactics I think. Advice pls:

My current is to use an army of:
9 - me+companions
40 - swadian infantry/sargents
10 - nord huscarls/veterens
20 - knights
10 - mamlukes/kherg lancers

Send infantry against the enemy line, take cavalry round the back to wipe out archers/hit the line on a flank. This does not work against the Rhodoks as their infantry soak up so much smg they can keep my cavalry static, while their archers also soak up dmg like nothing else, and deliver the meanest of punches.

Thoughts: I'll use an army of almost pure infantry and vaegir archers/marx. Set up my infantry on the reverse side of a hill with the archers at the bottom. Theory being rhodok crossbows are useless, and as they crest the hill (hopefully staggered) my archers can deal some dmg to their line, which my sword/axe infantry can take out easier than mace/spear. Set up:

95 limit army
9 - me+companions
40 - Vaegir guard
15 - swadian infantry
30 - vaegir archer

Right now I am reduced to my Narra garrison and 1 companion after having been defeated by rhodoks and taken prisoner. Have around 8k denars. Need to ransom my companions (I need those party skills) and raise anther army. I figure it'll take about one week to do so, during which I must travel loads to recruit for my army and raid a few vills as well (no raiding, no cash - no cash, no army and no companions - no army and no companions, no fun).

Any thoughts re that army and tactics and raising cash fast?