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When the OOB was added in 1.7, I didn't hate it, but it was clearly barebones and had major, major problems. I expected TW would continue to develop it and add more filters and granularity to allow us to better set up troop formations the way we wanted them.

Lo and behold I return to a game almost a year later, and literally not a single thing has changed. It's SLIGHTLY more stable, but it still inexplicably crashes when you assign the wrong unit type to the wrong numbered control group formation. No new filters. No added granularity.

In short. The OOB ****ing sucks. The old MnB system where you can manually assign units to the group you want is infinitely better. Even if it means giving up the captain feature.

Ok, I think I've got a semi work around to avoid crashing.

Couple things. The OOB doesn't know what to do with mounted companions. If you look at a formation box, you will see the total number of troops in the formation off to the side. Then it will show the number of modifiable troops via the slider. The extra troops in the total off to the side are your companions the OOB doesn't know how to manage. By default, it considers them infantry.

If you try to manipulate these formations with these companions in them, it tends to cause a CTD. It also makes it very difficult to sort your companions out. So, here is how you do it.

First, it sorts mounted companions as infantry, and it prioritizes them by group number. So, let's use an example. You load up a battle, and your Infantry slider shows 30/30, but the total number of troops in the formation reads as 40. You have 10 unassignable companions in that formation. If you attempt to use the slider here it will likely CTD. Make another infantry group that is empty. If the group they are currently in, is say, group 5, make the new group, group 1, 2, 3, or 4. Now, delete group 5. Your companions will resort to the highest avaliable infantry group. Now, make another infantry group with a lower number priority, so 5, 6+ etc. Now you can use the slider to move all the infantry out of group 1. It will leave your companions sorted by themselves in group 1.

If your archers/cav/whatever get messed up like this. Use the same principle, but use the multi unit formation. Inf/Ranged or Cav/Horse Archers. Basically, once you create a new empty formation that corresponds to the one that is stuck, you will be able to use the new formation to pull units out. Remember the lower the number the higher the priority for the companions to bounce to when you delete the formation the companions are stuck in.

Hope this helps anyone having crashing issues.

Also, the mouse wheel is inverted, it's backwards and as far as I can tell, there are no hotkeys to fix this issue. Only savages have the mouse wheel backwards like this!

It seems to be incredibly confused by companions equipped with melee and bows, I think. Constantly resulting in crashes.

Example. 12 Companions with Xbows + set of bolts + shield + spear. 5 of them are on horses. Those mounted don't appear to be considered cavalry.

They often won't even show up in the slider numbers, but get assigned randomly to both the ranged, AND infantry groups. If you attempt to manipulate any sliders these ghost boys are in, instant CTD.

You know, I'm of the firm belief that in games like this, options tend to be good. They'd make a lot of people happy if they simply gave us a couple toggles, and a slider.

Toggle 1 Birth On.
Toggle 2 Birth and Death On.
Slider 1 (Player Clan Death Rate)
Slider 2 (AI Clan Death Rate)

Imagine, now literally everyone gets to play the way they want. Want everyone to die constantly? Crank the slider up. Want death to be rare? Set the slider low. Want nobody to die, but you want births? Got a toggle for that too!

Regarding the specific edit.

ExplainedNumber explainedNumber = new ExplainedNumber(1f, false, null); <- This is the line we want to edit correct? And the specific value to edit is the 1f? I'm asking because the old example had a variable before the 1f, and that variable seems to be gone.

So, ExplainedNumber explainedNumber = new ExplainedNumber(2f, false, null); Would cut the base death rate from 2% to 1%?

OMG fix pls

HarvesterOfSouls 说:

This snowing bug problem still persist. It is not a "resolved" issue.

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They fixed it in 1.7.0, not in the current live version.

JohnBoared 说:

This has changed, now if I read correctly a 1 level starting non player character without any perks in medicine, enemy perks, if damaged has a guaranteed death, which I am not sure if intentional, because fair enough one has low chance to survive without medical help if seriously injured but not 0.

They have modified the initial value to
ExplainedNumber explainedNumber = new ExplainedNumber(character.IsHero ? 0f : 1f, false, null);
and later on the calculation as well( in my opinion some of it like subtracting explainedNumber.ResultNumber from explainedNumber.ResultNumber * 50f does not really changes much but whatever)

ExplainedNumber explainedNumber2 = new ExplainedNumber(1f / explainedNumber.ResultNumber, false, null);
to
if (character.IsHero)
{
explainedNumber.Add(explainedNumber.ResultNumber * 50f - explainedNumber.ResultNumber, null, null);
}
ExplainedNumber explainedNumber2 = new ExplainedNumber(1f / explainedNumber.ResultNumber, false, null);

What remains true is that if the initial value is higher, the hero has a better chance for survival, however that is no longer true that 100f is 1% and 50f is 2%. 1f would mean for a hero to have about 2% death chance without any perks at level 1, 2f would be about 1%. In case of 100 depending on later rounding it might be that no battle deaths occure.

Levels, medicine perks, enemy medicine perks (and in case of your clan members death chance do and d id alter these.)


for anyone wandering: (f means the data type float instead of the default integer feel free to put it there)

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So what I'm getting from this is, changing the value to 2, where we used to change it to 50 or 100, would yield about a 1% rate of death for a level 1 character with no perks?

Imagine asking a dev team to cater to modders, before the game is finished.

Honestly, this is yikes. I'm a modder myself, I love modding, I love modding communities. This is well beyond putting the cart before the horse. Starting any sort of overhaul mod when the game is in a constant state of flux is just a massive headache. It's going to be one step forward, and two steps back, CONSTANTLY, until they reach a point of stability in the code, which will come with a 1.0 release.

The top tier sturgian infantry is probably the best infantry in the game, but everything below top tier is pretty much objectively the worst in class.

Not to mention their sort of defining unit the top tier berserker, is completely unarmored. It's a cool trope for TV that has no basis in reality, but in terms of actual combat performance, not having armor kind of makes them suck

durbal 说:

Horses and pack animals need to consume food at least to put them on a somewhat even ground in terms of the campaign mechanics. Currently, on a per-distance basis they consume fewer resources (gold, food, influence) per distance traveled since they travel faster. Add in food consumption for animals and cavalry will still be strong and having hundreds of horses will probably still be mandatory (I despise this) but at least we'll make it not relatively punitive to have troops on foot. Then change the Khuzait trait so that their horses consume 20% less food or something more or less equivalent power-wise to the other nearly useless racial traits. (Racial traits are dumb and shouldn't exist anyway but whatever.)

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Incidentally, it's ahistorical for cavalry to be faster than infantry strategically, outside of say, steppe, or grassland plains. It might even be related to the horses that steppe peoples used. They didn't use big hot blooded, or even big cold blooded horses. They used very small, incredibly tough and hardy ponies.

You take your typical European mount from the medieval period, and try to have that poor horse keep up with infantry for a week and a half, and the horse is going to die, and or break down.

bearmans 说:

I'm not sure I like the bigger army game.. while it's cool in theory to have these 1k+ vs. 1k+ battles constantly, in practice it's actually kind of a chore. Maybe that's just me?

I definitely don't like sieges with 500+ on each side, though. that presently doesn't work well at all.

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Luckily for you, there are ways to mod this so that the sizes of armies are much smaller. Try I think, Neateds Modular Armies mod or something like that. Let's you literally define most of the bonuses to party sizes, so you can shrink them down much more. Then try something like bannerlord tweaks, to customize militia sizes.

Yea, I mean, you're exactly right. Spears are terrible in game because they are so simplified, but also because in reality they are so effective AND simple to use. That doesn't make for particularly dynamic or skillful game play, when the best weapon is also the easiest weapon to use.

Big problem is that spears are handled as strictly a slow, clumsy reach weapon.

There is a reason that in Asia, the Middle East, and Europe, for about 4000 years, with a little blip for about 400 years, spears were the dominant melee weapon of choice, and swords were a secondary sidearm.

Spear thrusting, needs to be much faster, and actually do real damage. That's the fix. Spear thrusts are quick, sudden jabs, not this long wind up and slow delivery. Fix that, and spears will be far more useful.

Yes, more spawn over time.

peenerz 说:

You're wrong. They take units from the garrisons of the towns or castles they're in. And what are you even talking about, they do recruit from villages, ever wonder why theres so many missing troops in the recruitment screen?

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I've looked at the coding, they spawn based on modules/sandbox/moduledata/paryTemplates.xml

The army they spawn with is defined under "kingdom_hero_party_kingdomenamehere_template

The aserai for example, use this template

<MBPartyTemplate id="kingdom_hero_party_aserai_template" >
<stacks>
<PartyTemplateStack min_value="16" max_value="16" troop="NPCCharacter.aserai_tribesman" />
<PartyTemplateStack min_value="8" max_value="8" troop="NPCCharacter.aserai_footman" />
<PartyTemplateStack min_value="8" max_value="8" troop="NPCCharacter.aserai_skirmisher" />
<PartyTemplateStack min_value="4" max_value="4" troop="NPCCharacter.aserai_tribal_horseman" />
<PartyTemplateStack min_value="2" max_value="2" troop="NPCCharacter.aserai_mameluke_regular" />
<PartyTemplateStack min_value="1" max_value="1" troop="NPCCharacter.aserai_mameluke_cavalry" />
<PartyTemplateStack min_value="4" max_value="4" troop="NPCCharacter.aserai_infantry" />
<PartyTemplateStack min_value="2" max_value="2" troop="NPCCharacter.aserai_veteran_infantry" />
<PartyTemplateStack min_value="5" max_value="4" troop="NPCCharacter.aserai_archer" />
<PartyTemplateStack min_value="1" max_value="1" troop="NPCCharacter.aserai_master_archer" />
</stacks>
</MBPartyTemplate>

Whenever a lord is released or escapes captivity, they instantly respawn with a base stack of this. They then will run around pulling units from garrisons, and recruiting units the same way the player does. If they are running around with an army of 1, hold alt and mouse over them, most likely they have 40+ wounded troops, and they've either gone bankrupt, or they've just escaped a major battle where they lost, but were not captured.

Unlike warband, troops barely heal when moving, so, an AI lord who has been defeated but escaped, is going to spend a very long time running around without an army, because it's entirely wounded. You have to stop moving on the overland map, and or rest in a settlement to get full healing. Also, most AI lords, have virtually no medicine skill, which further hampers their ability to recover wounded troops quickly.

peenerz 说:

The AI has the same exact money and recruiting limitations as you so no it's not too fast, you're not doing anything to counter them building up

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Not entirely true, when enemy lords are defeated and captured, where they can be imprisoned or released, the moment they are released or escape, they will spawn with an army of about 30-55 units, ranging from t1 recruits accounting for about 1/3rd of the force, to tier 5, with a few tier 5 elites scattered in.

Upside is, this can be modded very easily.