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  1. An open letter from the Kingdoms of Arda team, and the total-conversion mod community

    Eärendil Ardamírë 说:
    You are not bringing any arguments into the discussion, so not really worth the time.

    If you think that this is an useful argument in this discussion, I have to disappoint you. I am very well aware of the amount of modders around waiting to get a better grip at modding the game and bringing new features into it. It is however still not their time to shine. The game is in early access, a better modding support shouldn't be expected until full release.
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    Let me explain it to you, the game has been in Early access for a year. We've been getting new features that dont add any depth into the game, you play the game and it's the same game since release. Siege AI after a year is still broken but atleast we got child education into the game am I right? My point is that the game is the same game after a year. Sure it might be more balanced? Less bugs? Sure, I expect that from a Beta release but not from an Early Access release.

    They arent covering the grounds they need to cover. They can add all the updates they want but if the game is still the game after a whole year it should ring a bell telling you're doing something wrong.
    Integrating modding can be a valid way do improve on the game.

    You say that better modding support shouldnt be expected untill full release, why? Taleworlds literally has 100s of modders on the side working for free trying to make the game better and therefore increasing Taleworlds revenue.

    If you think saying ''It's early access'' is productive be my guest, I can live with that since I know you're not on the Bannerlord development team.

  2. An open letter from the Kingdoms of Arda team, and the total-conversion mod community

    Eärendil Ardamírë 说:
    Don't make double posts, edit your old post before instead to integrate your message.
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    Just react, refute what I say. you know im right.

  3. An open letter from the Kingdoms of Arda team, and the total-conversion mod community

    Bloc 说:
    Lol. What the hell are you talking about?
    Read what I wrote in there then.

    I said putting internal makes no sense because Harmony is easy to use. So there is no "enforcement". It's same as putting a single door without any walls and assuming that no one will pass that door.

    If they wouldn't use the internal, at best what modders could do ( without Harmony ) would be overriding the entire function body ( assuming that they don't wanna re-invent and do the exact same stuff that harmony does )
    And overriding/changing the entire function body is worst than patching it. It creates MORE compatibility issues. And with Harmony you can still patch it completely. So what exactly is the point in here? Internal or not, if you are changing a function, you should be ready for the fact that it can get screwed in the next update.
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    You can't override the entire internal function body, what are you talking about. Almost all of the coders working on the major overhaul are signing on and confirming these issues. Harmony is just adding more steps and dependance

  4. An open letter from the Kingdoms of Arda team, and the total-conversion mod community

    Eärendil Ardamírë 说:
    That has never been a strenght of TW and will most probably not change.

    They probably wouldn't have done so if modders wouldn't have nagged them about the tools constantly. So you can see this as a point at which they actually listen a bit even if there are good reasons why they should have waited with them as well until the full release.

    If you would only be able to bring forward a proper argument, hmmmm, if only. I guess we will never get one by you.
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    I am, im telling you that there is an army waiting to bring out awesome stuff by making the game a better game by modding it. As I said, vanilla warband is never played anymore. you just cant see the importance of modding in a game as bannerlord

  5. An open letter from the Kingdoms of Arda team, and the total-conversion mod community

    Bloc 说:
    "Fixing" is not the correct term in there, that's why I didn't just say fix without quotation marks. Making a code piece more accessible is not fixing it but making it.. well.. more accessible.
    And that can take time - however, designing that in the beginning by thinking about the modders would take more time. Especially if your design can change/gets updated/revised etc. before the deadline. And this happens quite often in the game industry.

    Native and SandBox modules are required to play the native game, yes. This, in theory, same with Warband as well. Not sure what do you want by pointing this out?


    I don't think that argument makes any sense ( code-wise). Patching is more compatibility friendly than basic overriding.
    Anyway, this ( internal consts etc ) was how they were doing things for awhile already - so for some parts perhaps someone naively thought applying this would resolve their conflict issues with mods or in-between mods without knowing anything about patching.
    But yes, let's see if TW clarify this matter or not. Or better, if they decide to take action before EA ends.


    Well, this is related to their internal management and not something I can say about it.
    As I said, I would support having more transparent layers and more accessible code too. But letter is kinda stating that they are being hostile to the modders intentionally and creating bumps to their roads just because they don't like to support modders right now. And that statement/behaviour is not fair.


    And? It's still easy.
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    you're ignoring his reply, he just answered why using harmony can cause problems. im telling you that he was refering to the part where you said harmony is easy. now you're just moving the goal post by saying that harmony is easy while that was never the issue with my reply.

  6. An open letter from the Kingdoms of Arda team, and the total-conversion mod community

    Eärendil Ardamírë 说:
    Their main priority should be fixing the game and get it to the full release, not to feed to the needs of the modding community. I am fully agreeing with Bloc here, so +1 for him.
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    If only there was a group of people interested in making the game a more interesting game to play. hmmmm if only. I guess we will never know. But atleasy Warband vanilla is still being played a alot right?

  7. An open letter from the Kingdoms of Arda team, and the total-conversion mod community

    Bloc 说:
    I'm saying that they probably changed for something else that they want to do. To make it easier to implement for themselves. Modders are not their concern in such cases - and shouldn't be. Would it be better if TW plays along and consider modders? Yes. But they don't have to do that right now.

    Frankly, there are a lot of reasons why a guy can't or won't do that. It adds extra time and/or work. I know it's silly to call this as work, but by definition, it is work. And they have to spend time doing that. 1 minute, 20 minutes, 1 hour, doesn't matter. Especially if they want to have proper documentation, this should not be handled poorly.


    I know how TW code (or used to code). This is not a "my friend said" type of information, so I don't think anyone in the company gathered everyone and said "Hey guys, these modder dudes are pushing hard. Let's make it internal so that they can't access it."
    I can assure you that, 5 years ago, TW was using the exact same internal/const logic in their codebase. Is it modding unfriendly? Yes. But I already explained that so yeah.


    No. I'm saying that they will "fix" those issues after the release. If they still continue being stubborn and refuse to provide a proper documentation and guide for modding, then it's 100% on TW.


    How's that related to what I said in there?
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    its related to the part where you said using harmony is easy

  8. An open letter from the Kingdoms of Arda team, and the total-conversion mod community

    Bloc 说:
    I agree with you. But we also have to be realistic. TW is tunnel visioned since from closed beta and they will always have an EA shield about such topics. Once EA is out of the way, then they have no excuses.

    As a person who worked on mods for BL since from Closed Beta, I don't think it would be logical for a company to waste their resources on this. This is not good for company or good for modders.
    I don't think EA will last another year, they will release a somewhat stable game in 2021. With lame features? Yes. But that's how TW plans the finish the game. In this scenario, it's not logical to make this change while they can simply put all effort to make it stable as soon as possible.
    If EA lasts longer, in that case it's also not logical to put effort on this since, as a modder, you will always have to update your code and read TW's codebase over and over to understand what has changed ( and why ) - you are saying that it's okay for you to adopt all these changes but it's not okay for the company to always think about this aspect while doing something or doing something experimental. They are not making an engine - it's a game, and it's in EA.

    But as I said, would it be better if TW suddenly decides to go that path by accepting all the effort this might cause to them? Yes - for the modders and for the community. Since TW won't add anything meaningful into the game anywhere soon, mods are the only hope. But will they do this? Probably not - and as I explained, they don't have to do that anyway.
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    Doesnt the game litteraly run a mod called native to start the game. That looks like the game engine running a mod called native.
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