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elysebluemoon 说:

Hi, can you share your save files? You can use a cloud service and post an open link on this thread.

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Here's a link to 2 saves:


Context for each save:

trade8.sav:
Epicrotea is in a seige battle, once the siege resolves, game should crash. This save used mods, but I used a another mod to clean it of modded data so it should load without mods.

empiretest2.sav:
Fresh save I made to test out my hypothesis. This save's life was contained fully within 1.10.x (last weeks mainline patch)
Only using a mod that enabled the game's developer console. Of which I did the following:

1. Skip Neretze's folly (rest of the quests were done manually)
2. gave myself a bunch of stuff to trivialize battles and for funsies.
3. grant all empire cities but 4 to the player

Taking one of the 4 remaining empire cities should crash the game. (may need to wait a day.)

My speculation:
I started empire but created an independent non-empire kingdom.
I think what's happening is CreateKingdomQuestBehavior.CreateKingdom uses the player's clan culture (which I think is derived via background, hence empire - but I couldn't follow that very well.)
Once weakening the empire triggers, as I am opposing the empire in this save, when DefeatTheConspiracyQuestBehavior.InitializeFinalPhase triggers, the list of kingdoms with culture "empire" includes the one I make, and becomes one of the kingdoms that allies up, and declares war on my kingdom. Thus my kingdom declares war on itself, causing a Dictionary that holds casualties/captures to initialize twice (because my kingdom is both the initiator and the target.)

Caveat: I did not test the negative case (non-empire background.)


"Why did you dig so deeply on this?" - I was bored. And this was easier to debug than some legacy system I'm currently wrangling with. A breath of fresh air sadly.

staticgrazer 说:

I agree, that's why I started doing BUY ALL THE THINGS™!, to increase the XP gained so get a single skill point faster. When selling for skill after buying everything, I was pulling in around 30k a city, which did the whole 4 down to 1 skill pop thing.

I'd love to hear how I can improve the wording, so it less implies a threshold. I'll update the guide with it.

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I don't remember where precisely I got the idea when I read your post initially, but something like this:

staticgrazer 说:

...
The problem when you reach around 170-200 in trading skill, is that the profit margin needed to reach the next level starts to creep over 10k. At this point, at least for me, this became a burden AND most of the regional economy was stable. AKA, there were a lot of even prices for goods in several reigons, and not many places to make a profit. So there is one solution.
...

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Implied to me that large single transactions were the only way.

Tatari_okan 说:

I have two cities of my own in the kingdom I created and 4 caravans, 5 workshops. My daily income changes from 6000k to 9300k. With the current trajectory, I could buy the armor in 200 or so ingame days. Spending that much of a time just to buy an armor seems excessive. I wonder how you managed to amass that amount of denars. Maybe you have better strategies for making money or I am not good at it.

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I'll agree that the armor price is high. But in general from my experience the solution is: having high trade skill to reduce the penalty, all of the above that you have mentioned, and also beating other people up in wars and selling the battle loot. I'd occasionally bankrupt a town's treasury when I would go to sell after a couple huge battles.

staticgrazer 说:

That's actually really interesting.
Your skill increased by 974.
At the prices you quoted (and assuming my math on the skill is correct), you had a profit skill gain of 500.
So: 20 - 15 X 100 = 500.

But I wouldn't call it a threshold. Instead I would wager the amount of XP needed for the next level is what increases. So maybe at level 10, the same sale might net a skill point or two.
Needs science to be sure though.

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2012 - 1657 = 355, income vs paid
355 / 5.49 = ~64.66 xp gained divided by skill multiplier
unsure how accurate that may be, as the flax fluctuated slightly (like 1 or 2 gold.)

And yes, the XP needed for the next level increases significantly, just look at the XP requirement of a high skill you have vs a lower one. At sub 30 you're talking maybe a couple hundred per level. What I was saying is that I do not think there is a threshold, which is what I thought you were implying. I am asserting that the trade xp for small trades is so low in comparison to what is needed for the next level when you trading is very high, that it feels like trades have no effect.

staticgrazer 说:

BUY ALL THE THINGS™! does become nessassry around 175 skill (I believe, didn't conceive it until around ~205 keep in mind), because the amount needed of profitable skill is at a point where you start needing skill profits in the tens of thousands.

At ~205 skill, I was hitting five to ten villages (where before that one or two would get me the a skill point) before I saw a single gain. And it slowly got worse.

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I still don't think there's a threshold. The xp require vs gain is just minuscule if you're trading normally.

Since I already had all of my mods disabled due to debugging a crash (of which I recently verified is actually purely the game and not my mods.) I loaded up my current save and bought ~100 flax at 15. And sold it at ~20 the next town over.

Went from 22749 -> 23723 xp at Trade 230.
Took before/after screenshots.

CyberianK 说:

Why do you say you need children?
Do you use them for Caravans or sth?

Any mod that makes them not useless but isnt overpowered?

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Probably not required in the current game. But, leveling trade this high takes so long that if you've married someone, you or your spouse will be pumping out enough children to start a Kindergarten in Chaikand (where the game will probably throw all of them.)

I ended up doing something similar to this guide, but I got fed up around trade 175 because of how grindy it became and used a mod to multiply my experience gains from trades.

Also, I don't think massive single trades are necessarily required. From my experience you still get trade experience normally, it's just that the requirement for each level is so massive. The mod I used multiplied experience gains, so even my normal trade patterns still pushed the XP bar.

elysebluemoon

Version: e1.1.0.226306 (live)

I am experience this crash as well. And I think I know whats happening for my game, however I am unsure if the game state is similar enough for others.

Here's a detailed report which I think is generated by the ModLib mod (?). Link

I also submitted what I believe to be the same crash that I'm describing at the following identifier from the crash uploader: 2020-04-22_06.03.18_a404aab597bed49bd157652b4d4a1aca
(I had to screenshot that and type it out, please make that copy-able in the future)

Caveats:
While there are mods enabled, I can verify that the crash occurs without mods too (however I cannot guarantee a mod did not create this invalid state.)
This save is probably from an earlier patch, but I don't know when.

I also poked around a bit since the module's appear to be all in C#.

Some details I am unsure cause this issue:
My character's background was Empire.
I founded my own Kingdom using a non-Imperial settlement (hence Weaken the Empire).

What I think is happening is:
At DefeatTheConspiracyQuestBehavior.InitializeFinalPhase the list of Imperial kingdoms being populated inadvertently will also add the player's kingdom (if they founded their own) which (in my case) is marked as an Imperial kingdom, as it's culture is marked Empire.
What then happens (as shown in the stack trace) is that when the list of kingdoms that are to declare war with my kingdom get their wars created, my kingdom declares war on itself, which causes the same Dictionary (of casualties/etc) to be initialized twice.

I'm not sure what the policy is on showing module code, so I'll offer to share through PMs unless told otherwise. But I can show approximately where it's occurring.