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@Duh_TaleWorlds Is it true that features like siege sally out missions and claimants will not be implemented in the release?

+1

One of the most annoying letdowns of Bannerlord is war/peace. They NEVER fixed it. Never added anything significant for 2 years with exception of broken tribute system.

In Warband, there were border disputes and other events which would lead wars. That would make it more immersive and believable. And when you seek peace, you would send diplomats/messengers to the enemy. It would take time to learn enemy's response to your offer.

But in Bannerlord, you can simply force "peace" by clicking a button. If enemy is about to take one of your most important cities, not a problem, just click the button and peace is reached, enemy has no say in it. It's very easy to exploit the game with that system.

Bannerlord war&peace exploitation: Assemble your army in the gates of targeted city/castle > Declare war > Siege and conquer the settlement (enemy is not organized yet so no help is coming to the besieged settlement) > Declare peace (enemy may be about to retake the settlement or take one of your settlements but "sudden" enforced peace prevents them anyway) > Declare war again after some time with the same tactic > Repeat...

They didn't implement features which could fix it for 2 YEARS. And they do not plan to fix it in full release. Even if they'd simply adopt Warband's peace via messenger system in the beginning, that would solve the problem.

Duh_TaleWorlds 说:

Naturally, if you do have a specific suggestion (other or more detailed than the above), I may be able to respond to it more specifically.

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I had some specific suggestions in different threads about diplomatic interactions + kingdom management since 2nd April 2020 in the threads like: Kingdom and Diplomacy suggestions, Dynamic factions instead of 'no snowballing'., Strong King status + Return of Marshall status + Longer truces + Feasts and Lobbying.

Of course I know that game passed the point which these suggestions could be implemented and is near to the release period so I don't persist my old suggestions but for specifically talking, I would like this game to have at least:

1)Alliances between factions + Alliances trough marriages between clans
(This is two different type of alliances):
*Feature of alliances between factions could fulfill the mission of coalition against stronger factions. Weak factions would ally with each other against snowballing faction in order to stop the snowballing.
*Alliances between clans trough marriages would fulfill the historical meaning of medieval marriages. This feature can be implemented like this:
a)If allied clans are in the same faction, they tend to support each other in votings + they tend to support each other when their settlements are under attack.
b)If allied clans are in different and hostile factions, if they're not the faction leaders, allied clans would tend to ignore each others settlements and tend to not pursue each other when they're leading an army in campaign map, as a favor to their allies.
c)If allied clans are in different factions and both of the parties in allied clans are the faction leaders, these factions would tend to not declare war on each other.
d)If a clan is allied with ruling clan in the same faction, it increases other clans attitude towards voting in favor of them when succession occurs.
e)It should be way harder to conduct marriage with powerful or ruling clan's family. Ruling clans tend to marry their family with other ruling clans or powerful clans.

2)Non-aggression pacts: Factions would strategically need it in necessary circumstances. Especially when their economy and military is shattered or when they're losing wars, factions could seek non-aggression pacts with some of it's neighbors in order to avert multi-front wars. When factions sign it, they will unable to declare war on each other for specified period of time (like 3-5 years).

3)Trade agreements: Friendly factions could boost the trade between them for common profit and increasing relations.

4)Border disputes & events which causes wars between factions (I liked this feature in the Warband. This feature is a small work but it's adding such a good immersion that player thinks wars are not popping out of nowhere. But in Bannerlord, wars are randomly declared, without a pretext so it lacks the immersion.)

5)Courts & faction capitals (game currently lacks meaningful faction capital and kingdom court mechanisms, where state affairs would be handled. Courts with ministers exists in Warband.)

6)Persuasion overhaul (actually persuasion mechanism in Warband was more immersive, in this game it's like a rolling dice because player can see outcomes and possibilities in given percentages.)

7)Renouncing the tribute Tribute paying faction should be able to renounce the payment obligation after certain period of time without having to declare war on receiving faction. This option would nullify the tribute situation between factions and receiving faction would have option to instantly go to war with renouncing faction to overrule the decision. If receiving faction is in a dire situation with other factions and attacking the renouncing faction isn't plausible in terms of military situation, receiving faction would have to tolerate the renouncement decision.

This feature would allow paying factions to nullify their tributes without having to declare war on receiving factions. This feature would solve the cycle of war between factions which declare wars in each other in order to become the receiving side of the tribute rather than paying side, because game currently lacks mechanism to nullify the tribute payments between factions once the first war starts.

That isn't to say that these topics (like Alliances, Trade agreements, Non-aggression pacts etc.) may not be explored in some other form in the future, but they are not part of the (current) plans for the base game.

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This is good to hear. I understand that TW wants to release this game in short period of time so management doesn't want to complicate the balance by extending the diplomacy right now but if these features are to be added after the full release, it's a positive thing in my opinion.

Thank you for the detailed statement regarding singleplayer.

TheRealSarn 说:

Is it safe to assume we will have a major diplomacy overhaul in the future (/near future)?

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Duh_TaleWorlds 说:

No. The post explains most of the major items that we are working on. For additional details, you may refer to the future plans post.

If you do have specific suggestions though, they can be taken into account.

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Could you please elaborate why diplomacy won't get necessary attention before the release? As I can tell, we only got 3 minor changes regarding that section since EA started:
1)Kingdom creation is implemented (it was possible via storyline missions before this implementation)
2)Declare war & make peace options are implemented
3)Tribute system is implemented.

I observe that most of the players still think (including myself), current kingdom management and diplomatic interactions in this game are very shallow, unbalanced and oversimplified. I speculate that overwhelming majority of players would prefer a decent diplomacy overhaul rather than features like battle terrain system.

I'm following development of this game since it's announcement in 2012 and I and most of the Warband players excited and hoped that this game would surpass Warband in terms of kingdom management and diplomacy, since it's a sequel and development updates before the EA release indicated that. But I think most of the players would agree with me that, Bannerlord didn't surpass Warband in that regard and some Warband features regarding diplomatic interactions are still missing in Bannerlord (They've been stated numerous times in this forum.) I, personally thought that Bannerlord would "at least" consist features in Warband Diplomacy mod (like Alliances, Trade agreements, Non-aggression pacts etc.)

If you do have specific suggestions though, they can be taken into account.

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Specific suggestions about diplomacy + kingdom management are persistently suggested by playerbase in this forum since the start of EA but I personally never seen developers attending these discussions (except @mexxico ). Since start of EA, both diplomacy section of this game and discussions about this section are neglected by developers, with the exception of @mexxico, who left TW previous year. Despite improved diplomacy and kingdom management being one of the most anticipated features of the Bannerlord by players since it's announcement, I don't understand why developers wouldn't do anything about it.

Duh_TaleWorlds 说:

There won't be a new beta this week.

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Saying "new beta" instead of saying "1.7.3" kinda confirms rumors about next patch being 1.8.0 to me . I expect 1.8.0 to wrap up at least 2 or 3 promised contents (like banners or claimants). This is why it must be taking so long to release it cuz you guys have to properly test whether these newly implemented contents would cause game breaking bugs.

I like most of the contents mentioned in "future plans" but I hope you guys are also aware of the shallowness of "diplomacy" in this game (almost did not get any attention since the start of early access) and I hope you guys are already working on it or at least have plans to improve it before the full release of this game, despite this subject not being mentioned in the future plans.

Errayn 说:

We can't sell stuff with money we are not Russians like Bannerlord Online.

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Open a patreon account ^^. I think a lot of people would want support the author of these amazing mods.

About Age of Bannerlords, I have a feeling that if this mod gets released and also gets multiplayer support in future (like each faction is controlled by players), I think this mod would be one of the landmark mods for the Bannerlord. It would be so much fun to play this against real players.

xGreedo 说:

Of course creating complex systems is difficult and take time. None said otherwise.
The game went from ultra snowballing to complete stalemate, nothing is happening in the world of Calradia without the player interference.
If i had a choice i would like to play the game with the Ultra snowballing in it rather that what ever the game is supposed to be right now. It's boring.

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This is true. Dozens of massive bloody battles causing nearly no impact on campaign map is making this game so boring. Solution is actually very simple and relevant feature which can achieve this solution is already implemented long ago. This feature is: "Rebellions".

If rebellions were designed to be way more successful which could turn into strong separate kingdoms, campaign factions would be dynamic instead of static 8 factions. So OP factions snowballing the certain regions wouldn't turn into world conquest because big empires would be shattered by big rebellions, new kingdoms would arise out of OP factions. These new kingdoms could turn into OP Empires in the time flow and start to snowball the map until they're shattered by rebellions too.

To achieve dynamic campaign system, separation wars should also be a thing. For example lords that are very upset with their liege would declare war to their liege to achieve their own independent kingdom. Player can do this against their liege at the moment but AI cannot.

In conclusion, while trying to avert effects of snowballing at the beginning of EA process, Taleworlds actually introduced a balance that made game very very boring in the long run. But Taleworlds can achieve dynamic campaign system with falling and rising kingdoms instead of 8 static factions by tricking and rebalancing some of their existing features.

Duh_TaleWorlds 说:

We discussed this some time ago and worked on additional clan management options (send/recall/exchange) to resolve this.

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Nice to hear! Can you guys also add shortcut buttons to Kingdom tab so players can easily hire mercenary clans into their kingdoms as AI does? Because when you're the king, it's very hard to catch a direct conversation with mercenary clan leaders, which are scattered around the world, + considering your other duties like recruitments, management and military campaigns, there is almost no free time to pursue them.

My suggestion can work like this: There will be a section regarding list of mercenary clans at Kingdom tab. Their payment demands, current troop situation and current employment situation will also be listed. Player will be able to hire them with clicking "Hire" button. AI kingdoms hires AI mercenaries without contacting them so this feature wouldn't provide unfair advantage to the player.

This is awesome! Taleworlds should really hire this guy.

TengriBless 说:

There's no legitimate answer to this question which wouldn't immediately descend into conspiratorial speculation on why the developers generally can't / don't bring out a good game out of Bannerlord.

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I understand why devs wouldn't answer to that question. What I sincerely expect from them is at least considering the option I suggested. Because this game lacks core gameplay elements which should've exist already. The most important and urgent element this game lacking is diplomatic actions in my opinion.

If Taleworlds is planning to implement diplomatic actions like non-aggression pacts, alliances, alliances trough marriages, war reasons/justifications, trade deals etc. before the release by themselves, I'm totally okay with that. But If they're not planning to develop this issue and think current system is enough for this game, then I suggest that they should implement Diplomacy mod instead. Because this game should not be considered "done" until diplomatic relations, which is the core element of campaign gameplay, gets properly implemented to the game.

+1

Also this screenshot looks pretty cool.

MostBlunted 说:

It´s more about getting more major features for free after the release, which I don´t think will happen (for free).

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I think they will add contents which are demanded by fanbase for a long time (like feasts, diplomacy, in depth quests & dialogues etc.) for free after the release, but I also think they're going to charge money for bigger DLC's, which wouldn't bother me slightest if content of the DLC is worth it.

Bjorn The Hound 说:

What is the point of this thread anyway?

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Because as I observe, significant portion of players in this forum thinks that end of Early Access phase is pretty much end of development for Bannerlord. So fanbase is unsure about whether game will be finalized with very little content. I argued in OP that end of Early Access is probably just a symbolic phase for Bannerlord, development will go as usual after the release. Contents which are suggested by fanbase but not added to game in full release could be added after the release.

Sure, they will continue. Some patches will be here and there. There will be definitely DLCs. But would that mean they will overhaul their diplomacy feature which has no diplomacy at all?

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You don't know that. We currently know pre-release plans but we don't know what are they planning to add or change post-release.

TheDesertRex 说:

They already said they will continue supporting banner lord for years after full release

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"supporting" is a narrow statement. Most of the big branch games are supported by developer companies throughout years, but that does not mean they get new contents. My specific claim is that, Taleworlds will continue developing (adding new contents/features etc.) to Bannerlord after the full release. For example after release of Warband, they kept supporting it but they moved on to developing Bannerlord, but now it seems that Bannerlord will remain as their main IP for years to come so they will keep developing it.