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Meshkinas 说:

If this really is the case, I'll pass Bannerlord. Which sucks, cuz big reason for building a new PC for me WAS Bannerlord...

Even with these new 1.7.0 changes, WB is still a superior game overall... At a fraction of BL's price.

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MRay 说:

Thank you I'll relay this internally for discussion ?

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loulou76100 说:

Wait a second... So they've added this whole (incredibly buggy, borderline broken) deployment system, only to not let the player divide their troops by type or weapons..? Are you telling me you actually can't separate, say, spearmen and shock swordsmen..?
And they've done that while ALSO making companions impossible to put in their own division, not giving the possibility to save formations, AND totally ignoring the glaring reinforcement issues??
Wow what a great patch, am I right? totally made the game better!

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Reiksmarshal 说:

There have been a lot of great ideas in response to this topic, the one thing that really stands out to me is character attributes. When you put a point into vigor or endurance it should do something more than just increase leaning rate. I want to be able to influence my characters strength or hitpoints, as of now all characters are the same. I can make a 5 foot merchant who focus on trading skills that hits just as hard as my 7 foot barbarian character who has 7 points in vigor and focus on combat. Maybe I'm missing something but attribute points should do more then just learning rate imo. Currently to max out hitpoints I have to study medicine and train one-hand, two-hand, and polearms.

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ppga 说:

+1

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durbal 说:

How does the point stand? OP's premise was wrong (learning limit is not a hard cap) and your calculations for the 'hundreds of hours' claim is based on...what exactly? Having more points in an attribute increases learning rate both by increasing the learning limit and also -- most importantly -- simply on its own regardless of the learning limit (something like a 0.2 increase per attribute point -- not sure if this is a constant or not).

So yeah, what's this outcry about?

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bodhi68k 说:

That would be unrealistic. They have included age mechanics, so you only have a "life-time" to master skills. No one in real life could master every area of life - which is why humans specialize in our societies. You have companions to fill-in you deficiencies. This mirrors real life. What you want is a fantasy skill system like Skyrim with a god-tier character at end-game.

If you want to unlock all skills, I'm sure a modder will do that for you. Just not in the base game.

God I hope the devs do not grant your wish!

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Jhaerik 说:

Honestly any of a half dozen proposed ideas in this thread alone would be better than what we got. It's why it completely boggles my mind why we got what we did. Anyone with 5 minutes and 2 brain cells could have came up with a better system, or at least a more functional version of the current system.

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stevehoos 说:

I am paranoid too about the anti sandbox hold your hand features like caps, I haven't liked this direction from the start. This game feels more and more like a linear RPG. Limited number of shops, limited number of companions, this design is constantly interfering with the player's free will. I am not getting that vibe of complete freedom that Warband offered. I feel rushed.

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Negative 说:

I definately love killing looters and becoming able to smith instead of having to craft 1000 useless swords with a forced 'sit around' period.

There are two parts here people interlink - unnessecarily so.
1) what gives XP - XP for trading/crafting/whatnot is imo a great idea and should be done.
2) Skills specific XP - in trading skill can only be earned by trading.

Now skill specific XP is a big hinderance often enough. You can't bypass levels where the skill sucks. Devs have to give enough options for each skill to actually level said skill and need to design the whole game around that (which so far Taleworld has failed to do).
Or to put it differently - i much prefer bashing the heads in because of the core game loop and then invest said XP into Smithing, than smithing 10.000 daggers to become able to actually design a weapon i'd like to design. So far i can't even judge the smithing system and if it's worth it, beause i haven't reached even 75 points in it.

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VincentNZ 说:

Horse Arching is the way to go. 40m hits stationary on a horse against any opponent will give you up to +3 skill for Riding. With full focus that is, I managed to get to 105 Riding and 95 Archery with 20 engagements against groups of 4-6 Looters. Pretty sure headshots and neck shots have a slight bonus to XP, as well.
Polearms are reasonably fast to level on horse, too, yet here Riding seems to not scale as well accordingly. I suspect that skill increases on these rely on speed, damage dealt (raw I hope) and body part hit. Also range for archery. However it does not scale well. Stationary on horse with long range shots, will give way more riding XP than Archery XP. Moving on Horse fast and shooting targets 10m away will grant more Archery skill than riding skill (albeit the difference is not as much).
I still go up by +2 riding when engaging 4-6 Looters.
The level system works, it is not fine-tuned though. Also I believe they should either scrap attributes all together or make them increase by doing stuff in these fields.
Also levelcaps shouldn't exist and the skill prerequisites for a level should be more like +2 or +3 instead of +5. That way the min-maxers can get all perks, and Roleplay dudes can have a character representative of their actions. The way it is now, the optimal way is to put all focus into 2-4 disciplines to maximise level gain.

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Tiberius_Invictus 说:

Has anyone else crunched the numbers on this? Per the game design the maximum level is 24, which means the last perks in every skill tree are pointless because it's literally impossible to obtain any of them!

Here's the proof by the numbers:

You start the game with 18 attribute points, 12 focus points, and 210 skill points.

Each focus point increases your skill cap by 30 in a single skill and each attribute point increases your skill cap by 10 in 3 skills.
6 attribute points are wasted because the first point in each attribute doesn't increase any caps. This means your cap on total skills at level 1 is 720.

Now, each level up requires gaining skill points equal to your current level x 5. If you take the total cumulative skill points gained to get to level 24, the number is 1380. (5+10+15+20+25, etc.)

At level 24, you have gained 23 more focus points and 8 more attribute points, increasing your total skill cap to 1660. Now remember, you started with 210 and have gained 1380, so at level 24 you have 1590 skill points.

Now you have a problem, because to get to level 25 requires 125 more skill points, but you can only gain 70 before you've maxed out every skill. This means that EVEN IF YOU ACHIEVE THE MAXIMUM IN EVERY SKILL AVAILABLE, THE MAX POSSIBLE LEVEL IS 24!

To make matters worse, the final perks in each skill tree require 275 skill points. Because of how skill caps work, you would need 5 focus points and 14 attribute points (remember the first attribute point is wasted) to get your skill cap above 275.

Where the hell are you going to get 14 attribute points?!? You only get 8 before you hit max level, so unless you answered questions that gave you 6 attribute points in the related attribute at time of character creation and allocated every attribute point gained from leveling up to that attribute, the final perk is not available to you!!

So yes, the current leveling system is broken.

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Lord Irontoe 说:

Focus points aren't the problem. They're not what's limiting you, its the learning limit that's the problem, along with the learning rate which declines as you level up. They need to get rid of the learning limits and make the minimum learning rate never drop lower than 1%. You're already limited by the increasing xp to get skill points and the increasing skill points to gain levels, but now its like you're getting hit with limits front, back and sideways. They need to loosen the valves a bit. They also need to rethink how you gain experience in a lot of the non-combat skills, and make sure that companions can also level those skills in normal gameplay.

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Ricochet53 说:

I am not disagreeing that something needs to change, but I fully disagree that they should implement global exp into this game from warband, that is just taking something that was broke and adding something broke. They will fix it, but hopefully not like that because now you are leveling up your trading because you were a super swordsman, just as broke as what we have right now.

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Maximum997 说:

It is true.

For example in original MnB or warband horse archery with 1 bow skill is just impossible task. And with 400 you are the frkn Robin Hood.

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Slav Cossacksson 说:

No, that is not the way it is. In Kenshi the only level cap is the highest possible level to take a skill which is wholly impractical for about the last 10-15% outside of focusing entirely on doing so. In Bannerlord the highest you could take a skill - therefore it's absolute cap - is like 3/4 of the way to the end of the bar. How can you think that's the same? It is literally completely impossible to even reach the last perks lol.

In Bannerlord there are level caps that you must repeatedly reach and then raise for no reason what so ever, and it is possible to leave yourself ****ed completely. In Kenshi if you want to be better with Crossbows, just grab one and use it. It doesn't matter what you did before stat-wise, everybody is just as capable as everybody else to reach max proficiency if they train long enough. No magic hard cap whatsoever, nor any real soft cap until extreme skill levels.

There is absolutely no comparison between the skill system in Bannerlord and the system Warband or Kenshi. The Bannerlord system is garbage. It is complex with bizarre halts and starts in the progression of skills for no reason other than to be different and to arbitrarily increase the grind to stretch content.

I absolutely do not believe the person in charge of this aspect of the game could be so incompetent as to not realize that 1/4 or the perks are actually impossible to attain without cheating. I don't care how early the access is, that is inexcusable. It would be like inventing a new card game except you forgot how many cards are in a playing deck. Honestly, the Math you need to take to get a degree in programming covers the exact type of problem that the current system has - if you spread your attribute points to evenly you make it impossible to reach the same level as if you min-maxed.

Because, you know, there was this problem in previous games where the majority of players didn't min/max as Horse Archers enough. /s

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