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Trade should automatically fix this issue, and then we should have to spend more money to import the proper items. It would give me something to spend money on. If I had some resource management, where I could see how much food/material was produced in the settlement and then choose what to import/export that would be far better than how things work atm.

Brano 说:

Having a city not able to support itself with enough food cries for possibility to organize trade routes.
Why do I need to ask some random merchant to create a caravan upon which I have no authority? I want to organize a caravan myself, decide how much/which type of troops the guard will consist of and where and what it will trade.
Or better solution. Why even bother with caravan? I click "create party", assign a leader, put troops inside and click another button "assign trade route" which brings another window where I choose where to go, what to buy and where to sell.
In time of peace the party will earn money finally (now they are just burden eating my budget) and in time of war I can switch off trading and party becomes warband.

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This is what I don't understand. Why can't I simply send out a servant to get some ****ing food from the town next door. Better yet, why don't my Governors or my merchants already do this?! Instead, they just sit and starve? Ridiculous.

I should be able to buy food and give it to my people. It's obvious. I should be able to HAND THEM FOOD. By the cartload if I want. I'm the damn KING. I have plenty of money but I can't buy peasants food? Ridiculous.

I have this issue but for a different mod. Started today after 1.8 was deployed.

MRay 说:

It's easy to tell that to the player. It's also easy to not let the player select templates that would put troops out of a formation. Ability to do it is not the issue. The issue is, that would create a bad experience. You have an indetermined number of formation templates, some affecting infantry, some affecting cavalry and horse archers... and any combination of these types. Players selecting and unselecting these, trying and failing, without being able to change what's in them, just to be able to press "Ready" is a not a good experience.

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Development is not easy. I do understand that. It takes time and effort to solve these problems. But IMO, they are solvable in a way that makes you happy and gives the players the functionality they clearly want. It's easy to tell the player that they must assign all troops available in the planning window and it will only create work for the players who want to work towards better control.

They will start out with all of their troops allocated based on the basic templates you have already developed, thus anyone not interested in any fine tuning will likely not trouble themselves with changing the basic filters. Thos who want to do so will be less likely to get frustrated with working towards what they desire because they are already in the mindset of detailed troop dispersal.

Again, this is about whether you think it's worth spending the time to make those features for the players who are willing to put in the effort to distribute their troops according to their own wishes. I do not agree it would be a bad experience. I would be happy to spend all the time to work through menus to get exactly what I want so that, when I actually battle, I'm not pissed off at the lack of control over my units.

Disabling captain assignments is also easy. But why should we? There should a be very good reason for it. This doesn't seem worth it since it's going to remove a lot of control from the player.

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I don't know about captain assignment and I barely care about it. I'm still learning but I have very few companions as they are separated into other parties. Maybe I should?

Not every troop in the battle is under a kingdom(minor faction troops for example). Not every troop is ranked(story mode troops for example).

Mods can and will add troops times over the vanilla. Only in the vanilla, there are 400 infantry troops defined. Forcing or expecting users to scroll through a 400 troop list is really, really bad design. And doing this for every formation...

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I have seen mods do this fairly easily for other things like garrisons. The mod Improved garrisons does a really good job of this and it's not a pain to use. My question is why are you just passing this off to mods to fix your game? If a mod becomes mandatory for the majority of players isn't that a reflection on your design?

If players want to split the same troop type between formations, that means sliders are still at play. Since giving direct troop numbers will mess things up(players can get some, lose some troops during and after the battle). That means current slider rules will apply to the individual troops. That means just for infantry, 400 sliders. Every formation.

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Are you saying the only way to distribute troops in the final release will be sliders?

If I had two formations for infantry, and one had Sturgian Heavy Spearman selected and showed I had 100 troops I could just use that to pull as many as I wanted from Infantry into the Sturgian formation. How would that generate 400 sliders? The menu for selecting the filter would be large, but worth it IMO, which is why you should do categories but the final selection would be a single filter, not a combination like Archers+Infantry+Khuziat Khan's Guard. I don't think anyone expects complex combinations like that.

bonerstorm 说:

I'm not a big defender of this game, but it actually makes sense in context:
Mercy is how you treat commoners
Honor is how you treat lords
Generosity is how you treat your troops

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I would disagree with this statement. Your population should not care if you execute the enemy. In many cases your kingdom would be happy that the murderous enemy who ravaged your towns and burned the villages was executed. It's a bad mechanic.

This includes the Lords IMO.

Granted it may depend on your Kingdom and it's ethics. Warlike kingdoms might condone more brutality while others do not. Having that variability would be tremendous.

Hey Thanks for the feedback I will definitely use those settings you mentioned. I had no idea.

(Like not letting player set custom filters for all formations since not-assigned troops need to go somewhere, disabling captain assignments since the player probably assigned their companions through the party screen etc.)

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I find this arguement a little obstructive. It seems like an easy solution to tell the player the must assign everyone to a formation or to have any unassigned troops go to a reinforcement block. This should be possible. It's whether you think it's worth the effort. It seems you do not, but I disagree with the importance of these issues.

You could also create dedicated formations that cannot be changed by the player. They would be the "dump" containers for each unit type, and then during play the player could take units out of those groups when needed to reinforce his troops. It would actually be a way better reinforcement tactic for the player, as they could decide what groups get reinforced and when.

I also want to make this clear, we don't have any plans to bring the old system back for the reasons I've mentioned before in this thread and other threads

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I have no idea what the old system is as I just bought the game and have only been playing 1.7.2. If I am making statements that make you think I am trying to bring back a system you already had, you may want to consider you made a mistake with the new system. Admitting you made a mistake is something Devs should actually do, instead of just forging ahead with a bad design. But, it's your game and your time and effort.

I personally don't like the idea.

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That's fair. It's your game. I'm simply trying to help you improve on things I personally don't like. However, my biggest arguement for these features is that any battlefield commander should be able to do these things. I should be able to raise a checkered flag, and every commander knows to order his troops into a specific formation. That's how armies work and armies are broken up into specific units/types. Your game should do that as the battlefield is the core of the game.

Showing every possible (or in the encounter) troops in the OoB is not sustainable.

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Why? There are plenty of games that have UI that can go through large lists.

Having a menu type UI like:
Kingdom -> troop type( archer, infantry, etc ) -> rank -> units

That should be doable. If you have the troops in sorted lists like they are in the party window, that should a easy implementation.

MRay 说:

I replied to this suggestion before, I'll find it.

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Hey Thank you for your reply. It's actually really refreshing to see a developer respond.

Using the party screen to create formations are still a problem though since with the introduction of OoB we let players control AI troops in AI battles

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Sorry for being new to the game. I assume you mean out of bounds for OoB. What is the issue with AI Troops in AI battles that having me set formations would cause? Saying it will cause issues but not explaining doesn't really help discussion as we as fans might be able to help.

I want to stress to you how important making the in game battle system fun to play. It's a core part of the game and it's currently INCREDIBLY frustrating. If the problems cannot be fixed in the current system, that is a really big problem and it should tell you that the system you chose is not a good one. Players are going to expect fine tuned troop deployment and I can already see on reddit everyone HATES the new system and are going as far as skipping battles because it's that annoying.

Please understand this all comes out of love for this game. I want to help not just criticize since you've made a tremendous game, but as I get farther into the game and play bigger and bigger battles, this issue is making me want to turn off the game. The issue is that I'm being beaten when I should not be because of the bad formations of my troops. They become completely disorganized and impossible to order around.

The way you are handling troop reinforcements is not great either. There needs to be a better system for it and something the player can understand and use good tactics to create an advantage. Perhaps creating a planning screen where you can create your starting force and then divide the rest of your forces up into resupplies of 100 units. It's really not cool when I start a battle and my best troops are gone but the enemy AI gets all of its horse archers and Calvary then runs circles around me while I get 2-3 horse archers every 10 min. They just get destroyed.

We already save the previous selections made in the OoB between battles and saving only one formation's values as a template would be a problem since it's not just changing one formation, it'll effect other formations with the same type since they share the same type of troops.

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Saving groups of INFANTRY, ARCHERS, HORSE ARCHERS, CALVARY is not what I mean. Those are groups. Not formations.

Formations are Infantry standing in a line, or in a scain, or defending my archers. I should be able to create a formation where I can surround my archers with my infantry or tell my calvary to defend my archers and NOT RUN OFF. I should be able to create complex formations and hotkey those.

Customization of the hotkeys for the order system was planned but it has been put in the backlog. Other features took precedence and it would require a refactor of how we do hotkeys in the order system.

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Fair enough. Your game definitely needs some TLC in the hotkey area. I would also consider allowing a Activation window for orders to use a mouse, like an xbox wheel. It would save keybinds if we could turn something like that on. I totally understand a backlog and keybinds aren't usually a priority

Thanks again for your remarks and please take everything I said here from a place of love. Bannerlord is tremendous and I am only posting to hopefully draw attention to things that I'm afraid will hurt it.

Having just come to M&B, I wuld like to applaud you Devs on a tremendous game. It is fantastic. I'm completely hooked, which is why I'm here making posts.

However, I am a bit baffled that I cannot assign specific troops to units I desire. I understand you have put a lot of work into your current design, but it seems restrictive. I can only hope that it is a precursor to other enhancements. As a dev myself, I completely understand having basic functionality and then building on those components, but please build on the current foundation.

Here are some suggestions I think should be addresssed. I say should, because any commander would be able to do these things.

A) Assigning specific troops to a formation. Yes, this should be possible. If I want to create group of only Sturgian Heavy Spearmen, I should be able to do it. That's precisely what commanders have done for years, for good reasons. I would think it would be a pretty simple act of creating a new filter for your list, like archer, or infantry, but instead an Icon for the troop type.. Simply allow us to choose other things from that list.

B) We should be able to train our troops/formations on an empty Battlefield. Creating and assigning groups would be done here. Formations saved and templates created to use during actual battles. If you let us create a formation by using the party window, dragging units to the left from a party from the party to a "Formation," then having us assign an ICON for it, you could select that Icon in the filter list and those specific troops would get assigned to the formation.

C) While training your troops you could create a starting formation, and save it as a template. Create templates that can be applied through a new dropdown during the prebattle planning stage.

D) Allow us to create hotkeys for things we use a lot. I rarely use the majority of the formation keys. I would like to create a single key that does Follow me, or Form a scain. Instead of pressing unit -> line-> formation, I could create a macro to do this in a "Favorites" command window on our training field.

Octanoz 说:

I had basically the same reaction as you and it's still tough to say goodbye to a certain level of control but it is a cool new system.

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That doesn't prohibit them from adding those features back in to the new system. I had never played the game, and was surprised I could not select specific units to put into the current groups. Like really baffled at why they wouldn't let you do that. However, then I though that this game is still in development. It may be a feature they want to work on and add more "filters" to the current ones. I hope they do.