搜索结果: *

Yangbang 说:

For number one I was agreeing with you that speed multiplying damage should come in both directions. So the speed of the thrust but also if a target is rushing at you at a horse's speed. It would really make horse charges against spears more deadly in the effect of suicide. Because I understand that some spear thrust at the right time will cause the horses to rear but it should also take the horse's lungs are heart out as well.

点击展开...

Totally!

Yangbang 说:

For your number 1 and 3, spears should do the same damage if mounted or on foot, it's speed that should be the addtional factor.

for 3, i agree that ta couched lance shouldn't move to much, but it should still go from left to right. but it's zone of attack should be very frontal. i've seen some lances be couched and go way off the sides. thats not right

for 4, i agree that a player should be able to protect themselves while getting up. it's realistic, your first instinct would be, shields up.

for 5, this kind of goes with 4, but no a player should just drop right where his horse dies especially if there was momentum. The rider should get flung off. but i think the rider should take much more damage. people die all the time from getting flung off horses.

from 6, this is the one i completely agree and support. i've used the tactic alot as a MP horseman. Riding in and saving allies. it's super cheese i know, as it should knock over everyone equally. Horsemen should have to be extra caution in not ramming in to allies instead or pretty much disruption a whole allied infantry charge.

点击展开...

For your point #1, IDK if you're disagreeing with me or if you're doing a change suggestion, but just to be clear, atm horses are so tanky that running head in at full speed into a spear stab barely dents the horse's hp. Yes the rider takes more damage but most of the time, it's the horse's hitbox that catches the stab and not the rider.

For your point #2, indeed, I saw some couched lances initiated totally on the right and I got couched by their lance being suddenly completely on the left. They can turn it too fast.

For your point #3, I disagree. For realism's sake, if you fall from your horse while it's galloping, it will most definitly take you more than 1-2 sec to get back up because you'll be extremely hurt (hell some ppl outright die from falling off of a horse) and you'll be dizzy/stunned from your fall. For balance's sake, currently when you are bumped by an enemy horse you stay on the ground much longer than when the rider get's unhorsed.

For your point #4, if they get damage proportionnal to how fast they were going when their horse died, to a point where it could be lethal unless they are full hp, I'd agree with this change. I just want unhorsed riders to be "punished" for balance reason the same way an archer is "punished" if he is by himself and is flanked/ganked by an infantry.

For your point #5, indeed, it's really cancer.

Biyonik 说:

Im going in without a shield so I should have superior weapon right? I think thats how it works. As for getting lanced easily I agree with this because if you are going head on with a lance cavalry you are pretty much doomed.
If I get stopped by an infantry while an archer is nearby I didnt really charge 2 people did I? Also you are saying you can raise your shield while we are talking about menavlions which you cant have a shield with

点击展开...

Thing is, while the original poster may say only 2h cavs are OP, I'm saying ALL cavs are. Menavlion is just an OP weapon in itself, that you use it as cav or as infantry, it's overtuned. it beats pretty much all the other currently available melee weapons in the game. About archers, they are supposed to be the only reliably way to deal with cav unless you're the kind of cav to throw yourself into infantry spears. And I say "reliably" as an exageration because archers deal at most 30 damage against horses (unless you're coming full speed toward them, then speed bonus gives them some more damage), so your horse will more often than not resemble a pincushion before going down solely from archers. So complaining about archers as a cav is like scissor complaining about rock being too strong. If you get stopped by an infantry, then you failed at ganking and ganking is what cav should be all about: flanking an unsuspecting singled-out infantry to take him out with a couched lance. You shouldn't be able to simply be ramming head-on without a care in the world in a pack of infantry because your horse is essentially a tank on hooves.

Ikea Knight 说:

So true... Tork is super biased when it comes to cavalry.
@VindictiV I think you had some pretty good points there to which he didn't reply at all.

点击展开...

Thanks! And indeed, seems like it's much easier for him to just set up a strawman and then flee from the conversation than to try to counter my arguments (or the others' arguments too).

Mabons 说:

FYI your better off just blocking him and moving on, following your posts it seems he’s doing the usual and defending his pet class, which you’ll never get him to stop doing so...

点击展开...

Ah that confirms my suspicions. Thanks for the heads-up.

+1
And add back freelook from first person!

Tork789 说:

Those fallacies are from your own logic though, it's not like I said something you didn't say yourself.

点击展开...

Nice try ignoring 99% of my post. And no, 2handers do not have access to shields unlike cavalry. Your "point" makes no sense. So, unless you counter my arguments I listed previously, you have no counter arguments to the FACT that cav is OP at the moment.

Tork789 说:

I don't get it. So if I take a 2hander cav it's my choice and the class itself isn't risky, but if I take 2hander inf it's somehow not my choice anymore and the class is risky now?

点击展开...

Nice fallacies there. I like how you COMPLETELY dismissed everything and cherry picked (OUT OF CONTEXT) my last sentence. I was answering the fact that you are saying cav is high risk but it's actually 2handers that are high risk high reward atm. Don't mix that with my counter arguments I put as bullet points. I think it's quite clear and evident. You said "cavs are shieldless" when YOU chose to not equip a shield as a cav when it is available.

Tork789 说:

That's just not true and you should know that. As for the risks I've mentioned them: you are shieldless, you can get lanced easily, you can get stopped and after stop there's enough time to stab you and if you got stopped around more than 1 enemy there's a high chance of you dying right there. There's plenty of risk involved.

点击展开...

• you are shieldless => that's your own choice. All cavs have access to shields.
• you can get lanced easily => it's like saying a melee class is risky because it can get melee'd. Yes you can get lanced but so can be everybody else. Infantry are even more at risk.
• you can get stopped and after stop there's enough time to stab you => that's the ONLY counter cavalry has. It's there for a reason : BALANCE. Also, a single spearmen can deal maximum 50-70 damage to the horse before the cav simply runs away. A Horse has 200hp, so that's not even half your horse hp pool.
• if you got stopped around more than 1 enemy there's a high chance of you dying right there => you took the risk of charging multiple people, the infantry didn't throw themselves as a pack against you. That's like complaining you die from doing a 1vX when you decided to charge them. Also, even if your horse is reared, you simply raise your shield and gallop away one second after being stopped. It's much faster than in warband and the horses are tankier.

The riskier class atm is 2hander : they can't protect themselves from projectiles nor couched lances. A risky class is most definitly NOT cavalry.

A horse barely moving gives the rider a ridiculously high damage bonus, essentially one-shotting anybody not wearing the heaviest armor the moment the horse isn't immobile.

Tork789 说:

Okay, nerf them and then what? They become useless. What's the point of going shieldless on a horse if you can't even oneshot anybody?

They are easily countered with any ranged weapon, other cavalry and spears/pikes. You only get in trouble if they sneak up on you or if you stand close to them and decide not to block, and blocking their weapons is very easy. It's a typical high risk - high reward scenario.

点击展开...

Where's the risk when, unlike in warband, rearing a horse doesn't mean it's dead anymore? Horses are much tankier and when it runs full speed speed into a spear stab, it's stopped only long enough for the spear user to stab you a second time for a total of about 60-70 damage out of 200hp that the horse has because spamming W makes the horse "restart" instantly and runs away. If you are unhorse, you stay barely a single second on the ground, unlike the people that you bump/knockdown which are stuck laying on the ground for a good 3 sec. Also, nobody goes shieldless on a horse as couching a spear/lance still allows you to use a shield. Cav is actually the safest class in the game atm.

EbdanianAdmiral 说:

Shields need to take more damage from counters like axes and do a better job against things they are supposed to counter (arrows)

点击展开...

I totally agree with this.

Caps 说:

I highly doubt that a heavy archer with can outrun a varyag. The accuracy we currently got will allow archers to consistently get headshots. You gotta ask yourself if you want to have arrows and xbows that hit as hard as a 2handed is what you want.

点击展开...

If they land the headshot, good on them (and im no archer main but rather a 'hoplite' kind of guy), they deserve the damage. Certain throwing weapons, on the other hand, can 1hit kill or 2 hit kill people without requiring a headshot while you're capable of using a shield yet I don't see you complain about them. Archers need 2-3 headshots to kill, I'v yet to see archers pull that off reliably. To me, the only issue, again, is how easy it is for them to outrun infantry and how easy it is for them to ignore shields most of the time unless you have them shields the size of a door.

Caps 说:

They cant outrun you and theres still the fact that they are laser beams and deal as much dmg as a 2h weapon.

点击展开...

I was outrunned in skirmish by a heavy archer (one of the 160 gold classes with heavy armor) while I was 140 gold class (varyag I think). Don't argue with me, I saw it and experienced it myself. And wow there, 2handers can 1 or 2 shot ppl (bardiche, faxx) while arrows do, at best for bodyshots, 35 damage if you're in light armor.

Archers aren't OP per say, it's just there's 2 issues:
->once an infantry is about to reach them, they can simply start running (and outrun you) to reset the "fight" (aka you're back to square one dodging shots trying to reach them). I'v had this happen to me and I was trying to get to a heavy archer (in skirmish) yet he could outrun me -_-
->shields are extremely unreliable at blocking projectiles that even when I play archer I so easily shoot people in their legs and feet, I actually feel bad for them (and im not even a good archer nor play archer often).

If they make it so archers cannot outrun infantry without dropping their bow and to make shields protect better from projectiles, then the balance would be really good. Well beside cav-easymode but that's another subject.

Kicking needs to do like in warband, opening up your opponent to a free overhead swing.
Shield bashing needs to be more accurate, sometimes I do it with my opponent in front of me and in my face yet it misses. It should do at least 5 damage regardless of armor, 2 damage is litterally useless.
Shields are actually not that great compared to warband against range, I would say they definitly need a buff in that department because I find it extremely easy to shoot ppl in their legs/feet even with their shields in front.

+1

Changes that need to happen to balance cavalry:

1. Horse riders have too much reach with spears, lances and slashing polearms and their damage is just ridiculous even when barely moving and almost stopped.
2. While couching, they still have too much maneuverability. Also when a couch is initiated say on the right side, they shouldn't be able to rapidly move the lance on the left side by like a 60-70 degree angle.
3. Infantry spears should deal MUCH more damage to cavalry when they are being reared by a frontal stab and the frontal stab should be achievable at a wider angle.
4. Unhorsed riders should faceplant for much longer (right now they can still use their shield to protect themselves while laying on the ground).
5. Unhorsed riders fly off into the distance safely out of reach of the person that killed their horse. They should fall directly on the ground, like the way it was in warband, so they are vulnerable to the person killing their horse.
6. Cavalry should knockdown their teamates too. At the moment it's too easy to interrupt a duel by simply running in the middle of 2 ppl fighting, automatically knocking down the opponent while your teamate is safely moved aside magically giving him plenty of time to hit the opponent still laying on the ground. This happens on gamemodes with friendly fire turned ON.

Also, who thought it was a good idea to make it so somebody that is bumped by a horse is knocked down for like 3 second but somebody unhorsed only stays half a sec on the ground??!!

This is for multiplayer, not single player.

Horses do not rear up for long enough from being stopped by a spear or from facepalming into a wall.
The frontal sweetspot to make them rear with a spear stab is too tight.
Horses are too tanky, galloping full speed into your spear stab only does 40-50 damage at best out of their 200.
Spears and 1handers glancing wayyyy too often when they shouldn't.
Archers being able to outrun infantry.
Archers essentially ignoring shields because they can shoot you in the feet all day long.

Many balancing issues currently.